What Happens to Your Books or Other Collectible Things When You Die?

[Extollager]

There's a lively thread just now on whether collecting books makes sense. I'd like to offer a thread on a tangent. The intended audience is perhaps especially people who, like me, will never see 50 (age 50) again.

There's an ironic situation here for some of us. I know that, when I was in my teens and for a while thereafter, I was attracted to the idea of collecting. If I had had more spending money, I might well have gone in for Arkham House or other specialty producers. NB In the 1970s there was a much smaller amount of activity in the production of "collectible" books than, I suppose, more recently.

Now that I'm through most of my middle years and my children have completed at least most of their university days, and the house is long ago paid off and so on, I have more money available for collecting expensive editions if that's what I want to do. But I find that the desire to collect is pretty feeble. I think there are several reasons for this. (1) I long ago ceased to be interested just in fantasy and sf. Although I still enjoy work in these fields, some of my old favorites no longer seem as Great to me as they used to, not that I necessarily enjoy them less but because I enjoy so many other things too. (2) I know of worthy causes to give to, more than I used to. (3) I'm conscious of my own mortality. Let's suppose I spent a bunch of money to buy a collectible item that still appeals strongly to me. How many years do I likely have left to enjoy my possession if I buy it? (4) If one goes in for collecting, what will happen is that one picks the low-hanging fruit first. But then there are the few remaining items one "needs" for the collection, that one is likely to buy at more than one thinks they are worth just to complete it. For example, one could acquire most of the books in Ballantine's Adult Fantasy Series (1969-1974) without having to spend a lot of money, I've no doubt. However, I understand that a few items (e.g. Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday) are uncommon. Would one want to spend quite a lot of money for say, the eight most pricey series books?

And (5) I am aware that none of my children has quite the degree of interest in these things that I have. Suppose one spends a lot of money in one's sixties and seventies on collections, and departs this life at 80 -- and nobody afterwards in one's circle of family and friends is all that interested. So that complete Ballantine set gets sold off in increments on Ebay and some of the books end up at a thrift store -- ?

Thoughts?

I don't see this as a melancholy topic necessarily, but I think it actually does invite some reflection.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

But sometimes grandchildren are more interested in their grandparents' interests than parents. My mum and dad are in 80s and still both buying books.
My youngest son thinks some of my collected items may make him a target come the apocalypse. One guy I know with an especially nice collection (not books) created a foundation, a web site that makes money from data about it and gifted his collection to the foundation. I think he was a multi-milionare when he retired and sold his business.

I've not decided what to do about my less ordinary things. The kids would be happy enough with the books.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

My num has a great collection of books, antiques jewellery etc and we all know who's to get what. I think it depends - qnytime someone has passed away their bits and pieces have gone to those who want them as a momento - I have a little jug that was once my cousins' granny's, for instance. After, it's charity shops etc. I suppose if someone had something important they might bequeath it suitably...?

Also, you can't take it with you and all that - if collecting things gives pleasure, I say keep going as long as you need to...t

 

[TheDustyZebra]

My husband would throw all my stuff in the trash, probably before my body was cold.

 

[Vince W]

They'll burn with me on my Viking longboat and follow me into Valhalla!

 

[J Riff]

I will find them at a donation bin, flog on eBay, and be able to afford to be a writer. )

 

[Ray McCarthy]

My husband would throw all my stuff in the trash

But he might die first?

 

[Overread]

What happens is you come on Chrons lamenting the fact that your collection could be broken up and lost - such does happen to a great many collections of books and other items. Indeed there are people who specialise in the fast purchase and sale of book collections.

So what can be done?

Well you could donate to a library; however they are, barring a few, rather poor showings compared to their past and many a country library is either closed or now more a social centre than one of reading and silence (indeed I believe that the once common ancient species of librarians (inevitably old ladies) who would stalk the shelves with many a "shhhh" and glare are now nearing extinction!).
I'd also think that fantasy is stuck in that its not, barring a few examples, generally considered "important" enough to really qualify for preservation in the same way that some other literary genres are.


So what's to be done?

Personally I think it would be neat to form a society (based at a very nice country estate mansion of course) focused on the preservation of fantasy and sci-fi literature to which one could donate their collections for preservation. A social group that could focus on the storing, archiving and library style access to fantasy; with a view that works preserved within would also be transcribed (not scanned) to digital to allow the easy of online-publication and sharing of those works - perhaps with a limited vanity style ordering setup to allow people to purchase books in their entirety (covers and all) in colour print.

 

[tinkerdan]

One man's junk is another man's treasure holds true and in this case, if you are concerned about it, you should make provisions through finding out who might like some of the items and write up some sort of document allowing that to happen. Otherwise it will all be assembled and gotten rid of in the most expedient manner.

Also you might consider that, as you get closer to the end, and realize that you are saddling someone with your junk: after the fact. It won't much matter to you, by then, what they do with it and maybe it won't matter how they remember you; but it might not be a bad idea to determine that which everyone else considers junk and then consider getting rid of it before you go.

I remember my father fondly; for a number of good things. But I also remember loading a large trailer from his garage and shed with all of the items that Mom and the seven siblings found to be useless.

How do you want to be remembered?

 

[Vertigo]

I know this thread is about collectibles but I think it's interesting to point out that currently all your ebooks and, indeed, downloaded (as opposed to CD/DVD/Blu ray) music and videos are not inheritable (or resalable). The days of collecting new books may in fact be numbered, which in turn may mean that book collections' inherent value may become much greater.

 

[Overread]

Vertigo digital collections and passing accounts to other people for inheritance purposes is a new area digitally speaking and chances are is only slipping through the net because those with the biggest collections are still relatively young. Some sites do let you loan things between families now and I suspect that in the future major stores will have some form of inheritance system in place.

That said digital removes several barriers for collections that make collections valuable.

1) Product quality - barring data loss at the main server your purchased product should remain in perfect quality.

2) Production numbers - so long as the store maintains sale of the product it will never run out of production. Games and items that make use of random number codes to activate can run out of codes or have problems there; but otherwise there should never be limited supply.

You will get limited supply access where there are legal battles and licence problems. These can be a nightmare and mean that items are removed from sale; sometimes with little to no warning. Whilst those who have bought retain access, those who have not are indeed then locked out of such purchases.

Another thought is that as time passes storage of digital data at the company end gets increasingly bigger; we could see a time when, if digital storage flattens out in capacity to store, stores start to restrict or remove content from sale due to increasing storage costs. Although I suspect other retailers will rise up to purchase and continue distribution of "classic/retro/archived"

 

[Vertigo]

Basically that's why I don't trust the stores to hold all my ebooks (of which I have quite a few!). And yes I have no doubt that the digital inheritance issues will be resolved eventually. Though they're not exactly hurrying are they? Whilst the publishers are certainly hurrying to protect their own interests. But let's not get into that here!

I do agree that the inherent nature of digital content (copyable and not degradable) will make it less collectable. Even if you have a rare copy of something that no one else has, it is only the work of minutes to make thousands or even millions of copies of it that are in no way distinguishable from the original.

 

[Vladd67]

Perhaps we should form a Chronicles foundation and build a library/museum to house unwanted collections for the benefit of future Chronicles members.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

a Chronicles foundation and build a library/museum to house unwanted collections for the benefit of future

Ordinary Libraries don't want donated books at all. They dump or sell off older books. Only have very popular classics and newer popular titles now, more organised like a video library than "traditional" libraries. Most here are not big enough to do much else as a lot of space that used to be shelves is now desks with Internet.

 

[Overread]

Aye I think that is what Vlad means - Chrons library that does like old books and fantasy.

Yes certainly your modern library can get a lot in from the national collective store of books; but most local ones at an individual level hold only the most current. IT makes sense; not point having shelves of stuff sitting unused.

 

[soulsinging]

I know this thread is about collectibles but I think it's interesting to point out that currently all your ebooks and, indeed, downloaded (as opposed to CD/DVD/Blu ray) music and videos are not inheritable (or resalable). The days of collecting new books may in fact be numbered, which in turn may mean that book collections' inherent value may become much greater.

It's very clear that ALL arts are moving this direction... the money is in licensing. The last thing you want is someone hanging onto an old record player and those records... better to make them buy new copies with every format update, or pay a monthly subscription fee like cable (currently netflix and spotify are affordable, but for how long?) to access those exclusive HBO shows...

 

[Ray McCarthy]

And yes I have no doubt that the digital inheritance issues will be resolved eventually.

Eventually the copyright expires. Experts can break the DRM, which ultimately is immoral as it attempts to control beyond the limit of international treaties on Copyright (mostly Berne Convention).

They can try suing my future generations, I WILL be passing on eBooks with DRM I have bought. Oppressive contracts or contract not obvious at purchase time are certainly illegal in EU / Ireland / UK and not enforcable
a) They have to know about it.
b) It will eventually be out of copyright.
c) It's a matter of alleged civil contract. They have to sue and prove damages.

You can't however reuse content on streaming or library service. That's why I will not waste a cent on it. Even before DVDs arrived we stopped renting VHS tapes and bought VHS tapes when they became affordable. If the DVD isn't worth buying so as to watch it again, any time and place you choose it it worth wasting the money and 2 to 3 hours of your life watching it in the first place via rental. So we cancelled pay TV too. It's simply a rip off to be paying €600 minimum a year when 95% of what you watch is on the Free To Air channels. We probably spend less on DVD / BD now than a few years ago as we now have a large collection. Certainly it used to be more than books, a bit less than a years pay TV. Now it's less than what we spend on books.

 

[Vertigo]

Eventually the copyright expires. Experts can break the DRM, which ultimately is immoral as it attempts to control beyond the limit of international treaties on Copyright (mostly Berne Convention).

They can try suing my future generations, I WILL be passing on eBooks with DRM I have bought. Oppressive contracts or contract not obvious at purchase time are certainly illegal in EU / Ireland / UK and not enforcable
a) They have to know about it.
b) It will eventually be out of copyright.
c) It's a matter of alleged civil contract. They have to sue and prove damages.

You can't however reuse content on streaming or library service. That's why I will not waste a cent on it. Even before DVDs arrived we stopped renting VHS tapes and bought VHS tapes when they became affordable. If the DVD isn't worth buying so as to watch it again, any time and place you choose it it worth wasting the money and 2 to 3 hours of your life watching it in the first place via rental. So we cancelled pay TV too. It's simply a rip off to be paying €600 minimum a year when 95% of what you watch is on the Free To Air channels. We probably spend less on DVD / BD now than a few years ago as we now have a large collection. Certainly it used to be more than books, a bit less than a years pay TV. Now it's less than what we spend on books.

You missed my point, Ray. It has nothing to do with copyright issues or even DRM; currently all pure digital media (so downloaded as opposed to on something like a CD or DVD) is not actually owned, it is only licenced and that licence is only for the person who made the purchase, and therefore cannot even be given away never mind inherited. It is nothing to do with an oppressive contract it is to do with how the laws are currently organised and this is a European thing as well as elsewhere. Downloaded digital media cannot currently be inherited in Europe (and most of the rest of the world as I understand it).

 

[Ray McCarthy]

You missed my point, Ray. It has nothing to do with copyright issues or even DRM; currently all pure digital media (so downloaded as opposed to on something like a CD or DVD) is not actually owned, it is only licenced and that licence is only for the person who made the purchase, and therefore cannot even be given away never mind inherited.

I didn't miss it at all.

No, I understand what is CLAIMED. However that is not clear to most purchasers. It's an area of civil law. You own the physical material of a Book and CD and DVD, but the CONTENT is only licensed, unless out of copyright.
My contention is that a download purchase, then burnt to CD or printed, one personal copy, is ultimately no different, that the restrictive non-transference aspect of the "licences" are actually not enforceable. This HAS been found to be the case with software, though MS and others have tried to weasel round it with stickers for the PC or Laptop etc.
1) The contract has to be clear and obvious
2) The contract has to be "reasonable"
3) Any "breaking" of the contract if (1) and (2) is OK is a CIVIL case. The supplier has to sue and if they win, any costs and penalty has to be related to the damages.
4) When the copyright expires, the "contract" is invalid, even it was legal in the first place.
5) Some digital downloads are included with a physical copy. It's daft to suggest they can't be passed on with the digital copy.
6) If you make a copy of something copyright and keep the original and even give away the copy, (or the original and keep copy), that is breaking copyright.

It's absolutely no different if on paper, CD, tape, DVD or digital only download. Commercial pirates can copy a physical book as easily as I can copy a DVD that has DRM. Digital only media deserves no extra "supplier rights" or removal of "Consumer Rights" simply because it's easy to copy. Twin Tape decks made tape copying easy. But no-one buying tapes ought to have been penalized vs vinyl. The tax on blank tapes to media providers was/is immoral as it assumed blank Tapes were only bought to violate copyright, nor was it universally implemented. Doing similar for blank CD & DVD media is even crazier.

MS actually allows you to make as many CD/DVDs of their software as you need. The only requirement is that INSTALLATION must meet licence conditions (you must have a key not used by anyone else, unless it's a volume key, then there are other rules).

So Copyright DOES apply. Contract Law applies. Consumer Law applies.

Very many "digital only" sales "contracts" are probably invalid at day one and unenforceable in the long run. DRM is immoral, especially if not TOTALLY clear in advertising.

 

[Jeremy M. Gottwig]

See that kid in my avatar? Although he is only three, I believe that he will value everything that I value and continue all my collections. I believe that his offspring will do the same. Therefore, my vast collection of space opera will remain intact and beloved for generations to come.

Wait, am I being delusional?