Dark and emotional story issues

[James118]

So have you got a plot outline? I'd love to hear it.

Also, the word is 'repetitive', not 'repedative'.

 

[Toby Frost]

First, I think you've got to be careful of how you deal with this character. I get the feeling that some writers (not necessarily you) mistake heaping misery on a character with making them sympathetic. I think there's a difference between making a character pitiable and making them someone you actually want to succeed. Pity is easy provided that you don't overdo it, but I think to make the character followable, they need to be doing something to improve their condition: they're not just in a hole but trying to get out of it. They need to be active, even if the activity is just trying to befriend one of the guards in their prison. If the story was about her trying to lift this curse, I'd be interested. If it's just a load of bad stuff happening to her and her crying about it, I wouldn't. So I'd say keep her active and moving, both in her head and in what's going on within the story.

Secondly, I've heard the phrase "angsty sue" for characters who spend too much time angsting or do their angsting in a cool broody way (like Batman). Even someone pretty depressed can still function from day to day, or at least go through the motions of doing so. She might actually spend a lot of time looking for distractions rather than moping, which isn't terribly grimdark, but would feel realistic. Can she get an apothecary to mix her some antidepressants, or maybe hire a wizard to blank parts of her memory? She might go to see a play to take her mind off it - but maybe the play features a murder that feels too close to home...

Thirdly, and I say this in a purely neutral way, from this outline someone will accuse you of being "another of those books where bad stuff happens to a woman". I don't see that this should be the case or that you shouldn't be able to write the story that you want to, but it's said about a lot of SFF these days, so brace yourself for that.

 

[Denise Tanaka]

I get the feeling that some writers (not necessarily you) mistake heaping misery on a character with making them sympathetic. I think there's a difference between making a character pitiable and making them someone you actually want to succeed.

That's a good point too.

I'm thinking of the Jessica Jones show, where she is dealing with these issues and her response (aside from a lot of hard drinking) is to be motivated to hunt down and catch the villain. A story isn't a story if it's just about someone wallowing. It's necessary to show that raw emotion, but it can't be the whole book. At some point, readers want the MC to get up and do something about it.

 

[Nick B]

Toby and Denise make good points. There comes a point where people who wallow in self pity and guilt just become annoying. The character needs to be fighting it tooth and nail, making the reader believe they really hate what is happening and are doing something about it. Perhaps describe her more fighting the compulsion, rather than just being drowned in guilt afterwards.


(I speak from the position of having a similar character, who loses control to a malicious entity quite often)

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think there's a difference between making a character pitiable and making them someone you actually want to succeed. Pity is easy provided that you don't overdo it

Absolutely right. And readers won't feel sorry for a character who is doing it for them by feeling sorry for herself.

 

[Phyrebrat]

This is very good advice and very important. Also use visceral reactions: pulse jumps, stomach feels like lead weight, etc. Think about what your own body tells you when you dread something you are about to do, and what it tells you afterward when you are reminded of something you regret or feel guilty about. Then apply that to your character.



This is absolutely right as well.

This is probably the best way to look at this, in my opinion. To make it easier, and get a more varied response, look into CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) as that should offer some background info on how we edit our lives, how we operate by a set of fundamental rules we have created for ourselves; our values, goals, judgements and assumptions. If she kills an innocent, there's not necessarily a reason for her to think "ooh what have I done?' She may have a knee-jerk response to do something even more damaging. Or punish herself in some way. Self harm, etc. Remember that some people, for example, become morbidly obese not because they're greedy, but because they are damaged, upset, or lacking in some often completely unrelated way.

For me an authentic response from a character need not be linear.

pH

 

[Etain]

Just a thought...

Although she was initially controlled and is now, apparently, repulsed by her actions; are you going to let her explore the darker side of herself that may have enjoyed / revelled in her ability to destroy and her power over life and death?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Absolutely right. And readers won't feel sorry for a character who is doing it for them by feeling sorry for herself.

That's one of the first lessons Teresa taught me. No one likes a moany whiny character.

 

[Darkranger85]

So have you got a plot outline? I'd love to hear it.

Also, the word is 'repetitive', not 'repedative'.

Thank you for the correction. My spelling ability, unfortunately sometimes lags behind my imagination.

I do not yet have a written outline. This is a story idea I've been thinking about for a long time but have only just now started to put to paper.

I have posted the first scene on the forum a while back, you can see it in my history. Though keep in mind that it has changed since then.

First, I think you've got to be careful of how you deal with this character. I get the feeling that some writers (not necessarily you) mistake heaping misery on a character with making them sympathetic. I think there's a difference between making a character pitiable and making them someone you actually want to succeed. Pity is easy provided that you don't overdo it, but I think to make the character followable, they need to be doing something to improve their condition: they're not just in a hole but trying to get out of it. They need to be active, even if the activity is just trying to befriend one of the guards in their prison. If the story was about her trying to lift this curse, I'd be interested. If it's just a load of bad stuff happening to her and her crying about it, I wouldn't. So I'd say keep her active and moving, both in her head and in what's going on within the story.

Secondly, I've heard the phrase "angsty sue" for characters who spend too much time angsting or do their angsting in a cool broody way (like Batman). Even someone pretty depressed can still function from day to day, or at least go through the motions of doing so. She might actually spend a lot of time looking for distractions rather than moping, which isn't terribly grimdark, but would feel realistic. Can she get an apothecary to mix her some antidepressants, or maybe hire a wizard to blank parts of her memory? She might go to see a play to take her mind off it - but maybe the play features a murder that feels too close to home...

Thirdly, and I say this in a purely neutral way, from this outline someone will accuse you of being "another of those books where bad stuff happens to a woman". I don't see that this should be the case or that you shouldn't be able to write the story that you want to, but it's said about a lot of SFF these days, so brace yourself for that.

A wonderful post!

No one has to worry about this character being a whiney person wallowing in self pity. She of course carries the enormous guilt of it all, but does not sit around feeling sorry for herself.

On the contrary. She finds that the only way she can keep going is to keep going. Keeping herself constantly busy and preoccupied with anything she can.

Her first goal is to learn more about the spells that are holding her, I have not yet decided if she will attain this goal at the end of the first book or before. It's a work in progress.

As for your third point, I'm not one that worries about every single person liking my story. If they don't like it, they don't have to read it.

Just a thought...

Although she was initially controlled and is now, apparently, repulsed by her actions; are you going to let her explore the darker side of herself that may have enjoyed / revelled in her ability to destroy and her power over life and death?

Absolutely.

In the start of the book, I'm toying with the idea that she might temporarily lose her battle against the spells and ends up killing a lot of people.

And after the resolution of this, when she comes to accept things, she will end up going after other shady bad guys and will be rather brutal in her methods.

 

[James118]

In the start of the book, I'm toying with the idea that she might temporarily lose her battle against the spells and ends up killing a lot of people.

And after the resolution of this, when she comes to accept things, she will end up going after other shady bad guys and will be rather brutal in her methods.

That would actually be a really cool idea to play with, has a lot of potential for a great arc. It might have been a tad cliche if she resolved to not commit anymore violence, and this way it's both fitting to go after the bad guys and much more interesting.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I was watching the TV series Supernatural last night, and it occurred to me that one way the producers/writers prevent main characters Sam and Dean from wallowing in self-pity over major plot arcs was to simply have them argue. After all, both brothers have different ways of dealing with emotional issues - and fighting between themselves because of that is a great way to turn potential whining into tense confrontations with one another. And it works really well.

So the lesson is, when writing a character who could end up self-pitying too much, then one option is to put them into conflict with another close character - the closer the better.

 

[allmywires]

*rubs hands together with glee* did someone say 'emotional turmoil'? AKA my fictional life blood...

My first thought when reading your character synopsis is the character of Natasha Romanov (Black Window) in the MCU (not read the comics, only seen the movies, sorry comic book bros). She's trained as an assassin but ends up being a good guy - if you've not seen the movies (or read the comics I guess) that might be a good starting point for a similar character. I personally think her arc is done pretty well, with the reveal of her backstory etc and the effect it has on her. Also as mentioned above, Jessica Jones is another one who is an example of a traumatised character freed from a 'spell' (of sorts) and deals with it by being a Major Bad Ass - with a side of alcoholism and self destruction, natch.

And yes - as others have said, steer well clear of the self-pity. Especially if that's the first part of her arc - the one we're introduced to. No-one likes a crybaby. Plenty of people like a mysterious, emotionally stunted, loaded-with-baggage-badass, though.

[Also, everything in Toby's post - yes, yes, and yes again!]

 

[Darkranger85]

That would actually be a really cool idea to play with, has a lot of potential for a great arc. It might have been a tad cliche if she resolved to not commit anymore violence, and this way it's both fitting to go after the bad guys and much more interesting.

Yeah. I don't want to go that route lol.

I'm thinking shes gonna fall under the spells influence toward the beginning and go from there.

I was watching the TV series Supernatural last night, and it occurred to me that one way the producers/writers prevent main characters Sam and Dean from wallowing in self-pity over major plot arcs was to simply have them argue. After all, both brothers have different ways of dealing with emotional issues - and fighting between themselves because of that is a great way to turn potential whining into tense confrontations with one another. And it works really well.

So the lesson is, when writing a character who could end up self-pitying too much, then one option is to put them into conflict with another close character - the closer the better.

I've seen the previews for Supernatural, never watched it though.

But a good point to bring out. I'll see how it can be used in my story, since right now she has no one to interact with. Shes a loner at the moment.

*rubs hands together with glee* did someone say 'emotional turmoil'? AKA my fictional life blood...

My first thought when reading your character synopsis is the character of Natasha Romanov (Black Window) in the MCU (not read the comics, only seen the movies, sorry comic book bros). She's trained as an assassin but ends up being a good guy - if you've not seen the movies (or read the comics I guess) that might be a good starting point for a similar character. I personally think her arc is done pretty well, with the reveal of her backstory etc and the effect it has on her. Also as mentioned above, Jessica Jones is another one who is an example of a traumatised character freed from a 'spell' (of sorts) and deals with it by being a Major Bad Ass - with a side of alcoholism and self destruction, natch.

And yes - as others have said, steer well clear of the self-pity. Especially if that's the first part of her arc - the one we're introduced to. No-one likes a crybaby. Plenty of people like a mysterious, emotionally stunted, loaded-with-baggage-badass, though.

[Also, everything in Toby's post - yes, yes, and yes again!]

I am very familiar with Black Widow. I'm a huge Marvel Comics fan. And I have watched a few episodes of Jessica Jones so I know what you mean lol.

And no worries on the crybaby. Shes a doer.

 

[Tim Murray]

I'm writing a very dark themed story but I have a few questions I'm hoping someone might know something about.

In a nutshell, the main character has been controlled by magic and forced to be an assassin for many years. Now she is free but still the spell has hold of her, it just acts differently now that her master is dead.

So, the story revolves around her guilt about her actions, both in the past and now. Even killing innocent people and such.

So my main concern is how to bring out her emotional turmoil through the book without sounding like a broken record?

I'm imagining a 3 part story for this storyline. The first focusing on guilt and sinking into despair. Then as she comes to realized how she's been controlled it begins an upswing in her feelings, and the third book ends with a more or less exeptance of the situation and self forgiveness.[/QUOT
Hopefully this won't sound to simplistic. Give her a form of PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It can be common among returning vets from war. Nightmares and such could haunt her. It can take years to get over, if at all. It could give her a realistic platform for her to come back from.

 

[Tim Murray]

I'm writing a very dark themed story but I have a few questions I'm hoping someone might know something about.

In a nutshell, the main character has been controlled by magic and forced to be an assassin for many years. Now she is free but still the spell has hold of her, it just acts differently now that her master is dead.

So, the story revolves around her guilt about her actions, both in the past and now. Even killing innocent people and such.

So my main concern is how to bring out her emotional turmoil through the book without sounding like a broken record?

I'm imagining a 3 part story for this storyline. The first focusing on guilt and sinking into despair. Then as she comes to realized how she's been controlled it begins an upswing in her feelings, and the third book ends with a more or less exeptance of the situation and self forgiveness.

Give her a form of a Post Traumatic disorder. Something that takes years to get over, if at all.

 

[J D Foster]

Thinking of the mistakes I have made in my life and the people I have hurt, the thoughts and feelings never go away. For me guilt over my past is something that frames a lot of how I think and feel today. Sure you forget it and you act normal, but like your broken record it always comes back, it always reminds you of what you were. The only way I have found to console myself has been to remind myself how much I've changed, how much I've developed as a person. The fact that I can never again become who I was is some comfort, but does it out balance the guilt... fraid not.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Give her a form of a Post Traumatic disorder. Something that takes years to get over, if at all.

Be careful with this sort of thing - if done without thought/research it can come across as an easy way to up stakes and dilute the strength of the story.

 

[pambaddeley]

Be careful with this sort of thing - if done without thought/research it can come across as an easy way to up stakes and dilute the strength of the story.

Yes it is a bit of a cliche; like the countless novels/TV shows with a loner police officer who has a drink problem.

 

[Tim Murray]

Yes it is a bit of a cliche; like the countless novels/TV shows with a loner police officer who has a drink problem.

Properly done, it can add texture to the character. As long as it is a piece of the puzzle that makes them interesting.

 

[Shyrka]

Just a thought...

Although she was initially controlled and is now, apparently, repulsed by her actions; are you going to let her explore the darker side of herself that may have enjoyed / revelled in her ability to destroy and her power over life and death?

Absolutely.

In the start of the book, I'm toying with the idea that she might temporarily lose her battle against the spells and ends up killing a lot of people.

And after the resolution of this, when she comes to accept things, she will end up going after other shady bad guys and will be rather brutal in her methods.

This would definitely be a more interesting route to take a characater than pure self-pity: having moments where she's forced to kill but ultimately gets carried away and comes to enjoy it could bring a different texture to the resultant emotional fallout. You could have her attempt to analyse why she enjoys it, digging into the feelings it provokes in her, rather than purely moping about it. That could provide further motivation for going after other bad guys; a release for her pent-up need for violence, if you will. Reminds me somewhat of Dexter.