strange feedback - advice needed.

[AnyaKimlin]

I'm getting strange feedback from my teen readers on Mayhem. Several have mentioned they would like more worldbuilding and description but then they go on to describe the world as they see it and it's more or less exactly the way I see it. Does that mean I have it about right or should I add more?

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I think it means you have it right. It means they will read next instalment. Give people all they want and then it's boring.?

 

[Ensign Shah]

My 15 year old niece loves a lot of detail when she reads and says she visualises books as films as she is reading. Her favourite books are the Hunger Games which have a hell of a lot of detail. Little things described in great detail. Things like hair accessories, colours, smells. Perhaps that's what they mean by more description? You seem to have got it right if they describe it as you see it but perhaps they are wanting more detail so that they can completely immerse themselves in a different world.

As adults we have life experiences we can draw upon whilst reading stories. Teenagers may need it handed to them.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

They say the little details are fine they want a bigger picture which is quite hard in first person.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Tell them to wait for the Film ...

Actually I can't exactly articulate what I mean in my first post. It's related to concept that fully clothed can be more erotic than absolutely naked. More description can dampen the magic.

teenagers may need it handed to them.

IMO They only think it. In fact it might encourage lazy thought and reduce development of imagination. A book isn't a bible for a film set building crew.

 

[Ogma]

If several of them cited it as an issue and they are your target readers, then you have to take it seriously. Sounds like though they understand what is happening, they don't feel they understand or they need confirmation at some stage that their surmises are correct. Maybe ask them for specific questions they want answered.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I've had that feedback with Inish Carraig, and it's a two edged sword. If I'd have added more of the world, I would have sacrificed some of the pace and would have had to force it into a point of view.

I think, if you can, expand it a little since it seems to be a theme in the feedback.

 

[Dan Jones]

If I think back to being a teenager, I certainly liked lots of world-building in what I read; I liked the sense of immersion that could give. I think a great many teenagers do think that way when it comes to what they read. They like imaginative, different worlds and all the details therein. The story taking place in that world obviously must be good as well, but there's definitely an appetite for the detail of a world other than our own. When so many teenagers feel isolated / disenchanted with their own worlds, this is understandable. So I think "cool details" count for a lot in YA.

I think @Ensign Shah makes a salient point that as adults we have more life experience and knowledge and can more effectively "fill in the gaps". Plus, because we have experiences, we want to read about things that mirror those experiences. When you're an adult, the world in which those experiences play out is almost (but not quite) redundant. Or if not redundant, then interchangeable.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I'm going to have to take it seriously I'm just not sure how to go about it without sacrificing Angus's voice. My daughter has lent me the Hunger Games and I don't think she's using more worldbuilding than I am it's just more obvious. The thing Suzanne Collins does use is more names for places and people maybe I just need to include more names earlier. I'm wondering about the case for a prologue or glossary instead.

 

[Idealect]

Just an idea:

You could try having a scene or very mini-subplot where something implied or offhandedly mentioned in some world-exposition happens to run into the story, and that way the reader might see that the world around might not generally be impinging on the protagonists story, as they're navigating it in very particular way (or whatever), but that it is very much there if moving parts of it can bump into the story. Or come to think of it, maybe just bump off the story, perhaps in a line or two.

Like I said just an idea.





(Goddamnit it's hard to use that phrase because it's so often used for things which aren't, but I double dog swear it's just an idea I wish to share with, literally, 0, presumptions.)

 

[Beth Wagner]

They say the little details are fine they want a bigger picture which is quite hard in first person.

To get a bigger picture of the world, you can always try eluding to it through anecdotes. The characters talk about how they view the world, or stories that they've heard about other places in order to help set what kind of world they are living in. Things that will spark the imagination.

 

[Jeremy M. Gottwig]

I'm getting strange feedback from my teen readers on Mayhem. Several have mentioned they would like more worldbuilding and description but then they go on to describe the world as they see it and it's more or less exactly the way I see it. Does that mean I have it about right or should I add more?

I think this means you have it right. I might avoid adding more detail, especially given that you're working in first person. Keep it lean and don't do anything that might disrupt your pacing or voice.

My 2 cents.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I think this means you have it right. I might avoid adding more detail, especially given that you're working in first person. Keep it lean and don't do anything that might disrupt your pacing or voice.

My 2 cents.

That's my inclination. But it has come up more than once I just can't see how to add big picture worldbuilding without maybe a prologue.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

To get a bigger picture of the world, you can always try eluding to it through anecdotes. The characters talk about how they view the world, or stories that they've heard about other places in order to help set what kind of world they are living in. Things that will spark the imagination.

He's on a skateboard not really time for anecdotes in the first chapter like they seem to want.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Just an idea:

You could try having a scene or very mini-subplot where something implied or offhandedly mentioned in some world-exposition happens to run into the story, and that way the reader might see that the world around might not generally be impinging on the protagonists story, as they're navigating it in very particular way (or whatever), but that it is very much there if moving parts of it can bump into the story. Or come to think of it, maybe just bump off the story, perhaps in a line or two.

Like I said just an idea

I slip world information into the movement this is the opener:

I'm a great big geek in a great big glass jar. Twenty million or more people spend their days staring at me through the lens of the media. There are days the lid is on so tight I am suffocating but the only way to escape permanently is to shatter my entire world.

The wheels of my skateboard grind on the pavement. Dad's subjects, the commuters on the way to work and scholars scuttling to school are skittles and I'm the ball, according to the newspapers all of them hate me anyway, so I may as well bowl them over. Nothing I do will ever ingratiate me with them so why try? A man in a pinstripe suit gets out of my way, sticking a finger up as he goes. I return the gesture.

The frying doughnuts smell so good. Kind of wish I'd had breakfast now. Like an automatic weapon stuck on fire the religious type aims a string of curse words that would make a lesser man than myself blush. His sky god, the Universal Father he calls him, damns me to eternal torment -- apparently.

"He's not real you know," I shout back at him.

The doughnut flipper in his candy striped hat grins at me and waves his spatula. He's not much older than me and his acne has me thinking pizza might be good. I really should have had breakfast.


Personally, I think it's a lot of worldbuilding.

 

[Beth Wagner]

He's on a skateboard not really time for anecdotes in the first chapter like they seem to want.

If they want it in the first chapter then you would need to add more detail about what your character is seeing. You have described more things in the world, but also perhaps add more dimension to them by adding in the character's reaction to what they are seeing, smelling and tasting. The frying doughnuts smell good, but maybe explain why they smell so good. We know the smell of the doughnuts, sure, but it sounds like they want the exact description of how they smell (this is just an example of course).

 

[AnyaKimlin]

If they want it in the first chapter then you would need to add more detail about what your character is seeing. You have described more things in the world, but also perhaps add more dimension to them by adding in the character's reaction to what they are seeing, smelling and tasting. The frying doughnuts smell good, but maybe explain why they smell so good. We know the smell of the doughnuts, sure, but it sounds like they want the exact description of how they smell (this is just an example of course).

It doesn't seem to be that they say the descriptions themselves work because they commented on being able to see the street and being a little queasy when I describe something later on.

They're wanting, I think, more like me adding the bit in italics:

If I remove my pollution mask and hood they'll all fall to their knees and swear fealty to Prince Angus of Covesea Island and Associated Territories. Rather embarrassing, for them and me, as the papers are full of what they really think of the Royal Oaf. My grandfather's despotic reign may have ended four years ago but old habits die hard and whilst they'll bitch about me behind close doors and in anonymous media polls very few would stand up and be counted in public where they maybe arrested and taken to the palace basement for treachery.

And

At the corner is a couple, displaying a disgusting amount of public affection. Seriously, the odd kiss is fine but get your hands out her skirt. I rumble past close enough for them to feel my draught and the women spring apart, muttering and glaring. Only a few years ago grandfather wouldn't have allowed females out without an ankle length covering, some of the older generation still wear one, and such scenes of debauchery attracted sentences involving mutilation. Dad's relaxed the laws -- pity.

"Get a room!"

Both of them shake fists at me.
---

I just think it feels like infodumping.

 

[pambaddeley]

Yes I agree it would come over as info dumping, especially in the context of a fast paced action scene - he is flying past so can have only a brief instant to comment on what he sees before he encounters the next person. Definitely would not add those italicised bits. Maybe that kind of thing could be worked in more naturally in a later reflective sequence.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Yes I agree it would come over as info dumping, especially in the context of a fast paced action scene - he is flying past so can have only a brief instant to comment on what he sees before he encounters the next person. Definitely would not add those italicised bits. Maybe that kind of thing could be worked in more naturally in a later reflective sequence.

That's what I've done but they appear to want it in the first chapter. I may just add one of them and leave the rest as it is. Initially I ignored it but after several came back with the same comment I felt I needed to at least listen.

 

[Mad Alice]

Just a thought. Could you use the technology they have as a medium of adding detail?
Maybe public view screens? Data feeds on monitors here and there. Film bits?
That way you get a second voice without needing to change your POV.