The problem with Susan - Narnia

[Kylara]

3) They are not real. Public School / English Boarding School kids suffer more from bullies, cliques and social exclusion than kids at regular schools. They are largely less suited for the real world (i.e. Jobs other than an MP or Company Director).

I'd have to disagree there.

Great discussion so far (if a little off track at points!)

I've been thinking about this more and thought I'd pop in a couple of thoughts. Does Susan disappear from Narnia because she becomes more "worldy" or because she stops believing in Narnia? As in she no longer believes that she went to Narnia in the first place, and thinks of it as a "playtime" they had, and that the others are delusional sort of non believing, rather than ignoring it.

Why does she stop believing or become less enamoured by the idea of Narnia? Is she swept up in materialism, or swept up by living in "reality"? And does it matter which one, as both have the same effect - exclusion from Narnia. Is Susan unfortunately the one to lose out due to structure and plot dynamics - so Peter is the oldest and always the one in charge, Lucy has always been the fervent believer, and Edmund has his change of heart in the first book and was redeemed, so Susan is the only character left for Lewis to have left out. Or is that making excuses?

 

[pambaddeley]

Possibly. There was so much change in 1946, that The Chalet School had to leave UK again. Though fictional, it was set always in contemporaneous way. Hence with invasion of Austria it moved to Ch. Is. Then to Welsh border, maybe one book offshore at Wales, then to Switzerland. She did try to run real boarding school during 1940s (maybe started just before the war?) based on her ideas in the books!

Some of the books in later prints combined (making 59 today), but also no-one is sure how many short stories etc in the series in magazines, comics and papers!
Angel Brazil might be regarded as the creator of the modern School Story, though there are earlier ones starting 18th C. She and Eleanor Sharp didn't get the popularity of Elinor M. Brent-Dyer, who cashed in on the series concept. Young readers want more of the same. That's why Enid Bylton (unusually for her) planned out her two boarding school series. The last major series of the style started by Brazil and Sharp in Victorian Era (ignoring J.K. R) may be the Anne Digby "Trebizon" series (very like Brazil, Sharp, Blyton, but with boyfriends, no sex). Noel Streatfeld (boots /shoes) and Lorna Hill (Ballet) shouldn't be ignored, though more "specialist" schools.
Various unlikely writers such as P.G. Wodehouse (quite a few before WWI) and Kipling (Stalky & Co) as well folk that did lots did the boy versions

A good study of Angela Brazil's works and other authors of the genre is You're a Brick, Angela! The Girls' Story from 1839-1975 (by Mary Cadogan with Patricia Craig) (1976) (updated and revised edition 1986). Cadogan also wrote a bio of Richmal Crompton, Richmal Crompton: The Woman Behind William (1986).

 

[pambaddeley]

I'd have to disagree there.

Great discussion so far (if a little off track at points!)

I've been thinking about this more and thought I'd pop in a couple of thoughts. Does Susan disappear from Narnia because she becomes more "worldy" or because she stops believing in Narnia? As in she no longer believes that she went to Narnia in the first place, and thinks of it as a "playtime" they had, and that the others are delusional sort of non believing, rather than ignoring it.

Why does she stop believing or become less enamoured by the idea of Narnia? Is she swept up in materialism, or swept up by living in "reality"? And does it matter which one, as both have the same effect - exclusion from Narnia. Is Susan unfortunately the one to lose out due to structure and plot dynamics - so Peter is the oldest and always the one in charge, Lucy has always been the fervent believer, and Edmund has his change of heart in the first book and was redeemed, so Susan is the only character left for Lewis to have left out. Or is that making excuses?

For me, Susan was always a wishy washy character and as you say lacks the focal roles of her siblings. I always took it that she stopped believing in Narnia and came to believe it was just a childhood game, something to look back on with nostalgia.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

because she stops believing in Narnia? As in she no longer believes that she went to Narnia in the first place, and thinks of it as a "playtime" they had, and that the others are delusional

yes. Partially due to being self absorbed (Prince Caspian, Horse & his Boy). IMO that's what the older ones are suggesting, only the youngest, Jill, is focusing on her "worldliness".
I can't see how it's about "femininity".

 

[pambaddeley]

yes. Partially due to being self absorbed (Prince Caspian, Horse & his Boy). IMO that's what the older ones are suggesting, only the youngest, Jill, is focusing on her "worldliness".
I can't see how it's about "femininity".

I didn't even see it as worldliness, but as meant to suggest triviality and a shallow mind.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I'd have to disagree there.

I'm only quoting a study, if remember, I'll link. My own experience, or anyone else here, pro or con is purely anecdotal. You need a proper sample.

 

[galanx]

A short short story from Jo Walton that seems obviously based on Narnia, and what happens after you come back:

Fiction: Relentlessly Mundane, by Jo Walton

 

[JC Kang]

Interesting discussion. I remember reading an analysis from a Christian CS Lewis expert 30-some years ago that suggested Susan symbolized someone who strayed from her Faith-- mind you, I read that as an early teen, and since then, I've followed Susan's path away from Christianity, so I don't remember the argument very clearly.

What annoyed me is how they attributed her doubt in Aslan in Prince Caspian to Peter in the movies.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

What annoyed me is how they attributed her doubt in Aslan in Prince Caspian to Peter in the movies.

It was only one of many annoying facets of the most recent movies.

 

[River Boy]

I don't think she stopped believing in Narnia, she just wanted to enjoy her life on earth without going to war against giants and things anymore. Storytelling was central to my upbringing but even I went through a stage of turning my back on fairy-tales as being something for kids.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I don't think she stopped believing in Narnia,

The other characters appear to suggest she claimed it was only a childhood game*, thus implying she didn't believe in it. IMO that's what Lewis wanted the reader to infer.

[*ironically, similar to the form of Edmund's lie at the start of their adventures]

 

[aThenian]

It was only one of many annoying facets of the most recent movies.

Mind you, I thought the film of Prince Caspian was actually way better than the book - and actually quite faithful to it. It just seemed to work a lot better as a film. (Mind you, PC is my least favourite Narnia book by a long way.)

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I thought the film of Prince Caspian ... and actually quite faithful to it

Wut? Are we thinking of the same film?
If it was better or not is a matter of taste. But in content the main battle was nothing like the book and all the "important" bits of the book were entirely missing. As an action film, maybe excellent, and in terms of "production", yes much better than the BBC version. Hardly recognisable to me as a "film of the book".

 

[aThenian]

Wut? Are we thinking of the same film?
If it was better or not is a matter of taste. But in content the main battle was nothing like the book and all the "important" bits of the book were entirely missing. As an action film, maybe excellent, and in terms of "production", yes much better than the BBC version. Hardly recognisable to me as a "film of the book".

Fair enough. I (re)read the book around the same time I saw the film and vaguely thought they'd stayed fairly faithful to it - well, apart from the whole "Suspian" plotline - but then, I'll admit I don't like the book, so probably the details of it don't stick in my head. I'm struggling to remember what actually happens in the main battle, for example, whereas I can remember the film pretty well. Yes, the film ramped up the action - something that annoys me often in other fantasy adaptations (e.g. LOTR, way too much action) but I thought Caspian benefited from an adrenaline injection.