Talk to me about laptops

[Dennis E. Taylor]

Remember the zillions of people who refused to upgrade from XP until they had no choice? XP's physical memory limit was 4 GB, which meant buying more than that really wasn't helping. And given that Dell, Lenovo and other OEMs kept selling XP machines until 2010 (even though Microsoft discontinued support in 2008, OEMs were allowed to continue selling machines as long at the O/S distribution preceded June 30, 2008), you can see from the age of some of the other devices mentioned here that 4GB really hasn't been ludicrous for very long.

That's because the alternative was Vista . Win7 was a huge improvement. Win8, not so much. Win10, the jury's still out.

Mirannan: If you're looking at a Microsoft Surface, make sure you look at the Pro. The non-Pro isn't an Intel-based system and can only run apps specially built for it.

 

[Kylara]

The 4GB wsn't RAM I don't think but HDD space...it was a while ago now and I didn't pay much more attention than to soothe my poor OH who couldn't believe some moron thought it was a good idea to recommend it to our very non computer savvy friend. It was "completely unsuitable to run anything more than its OS" according to him (electronic engineer) and even that it did badly. It was te most sluggish thing I have ever seen.

 

[Mirannan]

Incidentally, the 4GB limit (I believe it was actually 3GB) for XP applies only to the 32-bit version; admittedly, that's by far the more common version. It doesn't help matters that, unlike windows 7 in which 32-bit and 64-bit versions come on the same disc, if you wanted 64-bit XP you had to specifically order it. Drivers were a big problem for XP64, too.

 

[Grimward]

Good point about the limit difference and the 64-bit version, Mirannan, and yes I was referring to the far more widely purchased and deployed 32-bit version. Now that you mention it, though, vague memories of looking into it, reading horror stories about said device drivers and deciding to wait come to mind...

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I am one of those zillions of people who only gave up XP while kicking and screaming. Win7 is a passable thing, and what I have now, but I really will be kicking and screaming again at having to go to 8 or 10. I have computers in my house with both of those, and I hate them.

 

[Culhwch]

I don't understand what people have against Windows 8.1 or 10. I didn't even mind 7. Once you get the hang of it, it's fine!

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I don't understand what people have against Windows 8.1 or 10. I didn't even mind 7. Once you get the hang of it, it's fine!

If you were here*, I could enlighten you and you'd see why I've switched to Linux Mint in January. (I've used Linux for servers since 1999, but only for my home server since about 2011). Despite selling, installing, maintaining and using Windows for TWENTY FIVE years.

I've used & sorted out other people's Vista, Win 7 (fixed version of Vista), Win 8 (Stupid Phone centric), Win 10 (evil privacy busting and will be subscription, will die horribly with a forced update, MS controls your PC not you)

XP is my last personal Windows. Still have it on a Laptop not used on Internet. Server 2003 was too bloated and slow (based on XP), we went to 9it from NT4.0 Server Enterprise, then back to Advanced Server 2000, then to Linux Debian.

Using, programming and maintaining Computers since 1979.

[* Feel free to drop in if you are passing, e.g. changing flights at Shannon]

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Toshiba here, four of them, never a problem.

I remember the good old days when you could drop a Toshiba off the roof and it would still work (as a friend once unintentionally demonstrated with his work laptop).

My last Toshiba worked for three or four years until the keyboard broke. I could have replaced it, but I decided I wanted a bigger screen anyway. The newer one has an appalling touchpad, but that seems to be the norm these days; it's started to ignore clicks after about three years, so I'll probably replace it soon. Now Microsoft have tied down the BIOS so you can never be sure whether Linux will be allowed to run on a Windows laptop, I'm not sure whether to get a custom-built Linux laptop or a Mac next time.

 

[J Riff]

I know. I tried Linux on laptops a few times and it just glitched out like no tomorrow. I thought sure this one was done when it fell on the cement, about five feet. Kee-rack went the case, to the right of the touchpad. Didn't miss a beat. Touchpads are probably no fun to access, though the fix would be very simple. There's sometimes a sensitivity setting, I bet you knew that. )

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Now Microsoft have tied down the BIOS so you can never be sure whether Linux will be allowed to run on a Windows laptop

A) it's Intel, not MS, behind EFI BIOS, Apple used the concept first.
B) It doesn't stop you installing / running Linux. You need to read up on it.
c) Yes, it's a stupid design and many of the BIOSes are LESS secure than the previous system.

 

[Kylara]

The annoying thing about touch pads is that they are very easy to fix. However, getting to them and then getting everything to fit back into the case so it lies flat and the cover closes properly on all the electronics is a whole different ball game and really not worth the hassle. I currently have a wireless mouse for my laptop partially for this reason, though the pad is fine, the click buttons are on their last legs! Also I like how lazy I can be when using a wireless mouse, and I am picky with then as they have to fit my hand and have all manner of extras on them. (sideclicking scroll wheel is a must )

 

[Mirannan]

Ray - I think Win 7 is far superior to XP. There is one niggle though; the lack of an "up button" in file requesters. But I really quite like the file library system. In any case, I needed support for more than 3GB on my desktop so the move had to be made.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Ray - I think Win 7 is far superior to XP

There are ZERO extra features that anyone needs except updated DX video for newer games (Aero is dep and it's more bloated, needs x2 memory and CPU roughly for same performance. It's only a bug fix of Vista. 45s vs 15s boot on same modern laptop. Probably the XP systems you used were not setup properly. Also Win7 emulates the Win GDI of traditional windows forms based applications, slowing them!

All the "good" changes proposed in 2003-2005 for Vista were dropped. Win7 is just a service pack version of Vista, it should have been free to all Vista users. (c.f. SP6 for NT 4.0 or SP3 for XP)

XP (NT 5.1) isn't supported. Win 7 (NT 6.1 or 6.2, Vista is Win 6) isn't sold any more. So both are history.

Win 8.x is really Win 7.x, and Win 10 really barely Win 8 version.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Well, it's back to the drawing board. I decided on a Lenovo Ideapad Y700, which came with an external DVD drive. Unfortunately, I discovered that it turned off within two minutes of having the cord unplugged, which is a singularly unuseful feature for a laptop. Tech support tried many things by way of a shady-sounding but apparently ok remote login thing called 123rescue, and reset it to factory settings (as if it had had time to get away from those in three days) and said it would need to be returned for repair. At which point I decided to return it to BestBuy for something else instead. Apparently a cursory search (of a different sort than the thorough one I did to find it) would have revealed that this is a common problem with this series. Probably back to Toshiba for the next one. Sigh.

 

[pambaddeley]

I've found HP OK - the only problems I've had is with Windows 10 which loves losing the taskbar icons and the ability to right click once a week or so; was fine with 8.0 (which it came with) and 8.1.

Dusty, with the new processors that are due to come out, Microsoft are withdrawing support for all O/S apart from Win 10 - Microsoft says new processors will only work with Windows 10

Lenovo were good when they first took over the IBM Thinkpad - the Thinkpads had marvellous keyboards for touch typing in my opinion. But I got HP instead when I bought the latest LT because I heard a lot about the screen hinges cracking on recent Lenovos.

Also do read around about Tosh - years ago they were fabulous machines, but I believe they have gone severely downhill in the last decade.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Dusty, with the new processors that are due to come out, Microsoft are withdrawing support for all O/S apart from Win 10 - Microsoft says new processors will only work with Windows 10

a) It's not true anyway
b) It's out of context
c) They'll backtrack on what they said as Win 10 will die without trace in Enterprise if they did. That would drive EVEN more businesses to Linux.

The only reason that Win 10 is doing as well as it is, (which isn't well in Business and PC sales are falling anyway), is it's free, (a) Being forced on existing users (b) People erroneously think that the only simple alternative is Apple OS X. You CAN still buy Win7. WINE and DOSBOX on linux now supports more legacy applications than Win 10.

Win 10 is going to get MS fined by EU and other countries. It's worse than Android for breaking privacy law.

 

[J Riff]

So, do you prefer Mint13 Ray? Is it going to work on my older laptop after all? What other Linux platforms are worth trying, on a laptop?

 

[mosaix]

I've probably had half a dozen laptops since my first one in 1990. My first, and best, was a Toshiba.

Rugged and reliable, it never let me down once despite dropping it onto a solid floor when I picked up the case without zipping it up first!

 

[Ray McCarthy]

So, do you prefer Mint13 Ray? Is it going to work on my older laptop after all? What other Linux platforms are worth trying, on a laptop?

Mint 17.3 with Mate desktop (Redmond theme tweaked via GUI, also long term support), and login slide-show disabled is fine on old and new hardware. I did upgrade the original Aspire One to a 32G CF card instead of stock 4G Flash memory for more flexibility.
Works fine and plenty of space on old laptops with only 1G RAM and 32G PATA HDD and on my multicore 8G RAM desktop (2 off 1600 x 1200 CRT screens via DVI to VGA adaptors) with multiple 2T SATA drives. Though the desktop is 64bit, I have 32bit Linux Mint for extra speed and compatibility. I have no applications that need 64bit. All 8G RAM is available to 32bit apps, unlike Windows 32bit desktop versions (2.5G per app).

Kindle Reader and many other Windows Apps on WINE on Linux. A plugin for Firefox lets it report as Windows (or anything) so PC Windows download links appear.

I've finally got to grips with changing settings on Libreoffice to use it happily on Windows (I still have an XP and Win2K laptops) and Linux instead of MS Office. The Gimp has finally got usable enough to replace PSP7 on Windows. My professional SCSI scanner simply just worked. (PCMCIA APA1460 card in laptop and and a dual SCSI UltraWide & Fast PCI card with rear connector on desktop)

XP only works with old Calibre. The native Linux Calibre is up to date and works well with Kobo H20 Aura and five Kindle models I've tried. It's converting LibreOffice files to eBooks fine. LibreOffice imports / exports all the main kinds of MS Office files and creates PDF and HTML.

 

[J Riff]

Now yer talkin. 17.3 it is then. On Sun. nites I use Ubuntu, at a club, and it is still glitchular. Was worried about the Gimp, it was not so good... but now it may be time to try again.
Mosaix, that is exactly what I did; slid the case off a high coffee stand, unzipped, and kerrack.
What about those HDs that can sense they are falling and lock down? Can I get a brain like that?