How historical do you want your historical fic?

aThenian said:
I'm not familiar with it - just googled in fact - but sounds fascinating.
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[gets on soapbox] So a Hellenic city much larger and more cosmopolitan than Athens, the birthplace of classical philosophy and science, rebels against the Persian empire, whose regional capital is a day's ride away. Without the protection afforded by the Aegean Sea. Without any delusions about the power of Persia and what it did to rebellious states. Then fights a desperate war with sieges, triumphs, epic naval battles, betrayals, and calamities.

And this rebellion is virtually unknown, even among amateur enthusiasts of the classical world. Why? When Herodotus himself was an Ionian Greek? I guess losers don't make for compelling subjects (the population of Miletus was enslaved after the rebellion). [gets off soapbox]

aThenian said:
Yes, Athens is really tough - apart from a very few exceptions, like Aspasia, most women, at least in richer households, were pretty much confined to domestic life. Either you go with it, or you write about a different world.
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Funny, but I've modelled one of my protagonists on Aspasia. She must have been an exceptional personality.

aThenian said:
How far along are you with your book?
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180k words into a first draft that I expect to hit 220k. First book in a planned trilogy.

How about you?
 
MWagner said:
[gets on soapbox] So a Hellenic city much larger and more cosmopolitan than Athens, the birthplace of classical philosophy and science, rebels against the Persian empire, whose regional capital is a day's ride away. Without the protection afforded by the Aegean Sea. Without any delusions about the power of Persia and what it did to rebellious states. Then fights a desperate war with sieges, triumphs, epic naval battles, betrayals, and calamities.

And this rebellion is virtually unknown, even among amateur enthusiasts of the classical world. Why? [gets off soapbox]
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It sounds fantastic source material. Why unknown? - because no Thucydides or Homer to write about it? (Did Herodotus write about it?)
 
aThenian said:
It sounds fantastic source material. Why unknown? - because no Thucydides or Homer to write about it? (Did Herodotus write about it?)
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Herodotus did write about it (though the Ionian revolt took place a decade before he was born). He doesn't go into a lot of detail, though. Presumably there was more of an audience for an account of the struggle of Athens and mainland Greece, as the population of the leading Ionian city - Miletus - was enslaved after their defeat. Herodotus sought out the patronage of Athenians, and in fact unsuccessfully applied for citizenship. It's not hard to imagine why he would present Athens as the protagonist of the Greco-Persian wars.

You're fortunate in your chosen subject matter. We just know so much more about Athens than any other Hellenic city of antiquity. Most of the works of Ionian Greek writers were lost.
 
Interesting to see people going Greek. I feel that, given how monumentally influential and well known Ancient Greece is comparatively speaking, its incredibly under represented in mythology. One of my nascent WiPs is going for a lot of Ancient Greek, but more myth than history.

Also, thank you for introducing me to the Ionian Revolt.
 
aThenian said:
My historical fantasy is also based around the Ancient World - Ancient Greece, specifically Classical Athens.
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MWagner said:
My work in progress is loosely based on the Ionian revolt
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I'd love to read more fantasy inspired by the ancient world. Hope you'll both consider putting something up in Critiques when ready, to see if we can help. :)

MWagner said:
And this rebellion is virtually unknown
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I came across it early in research - but I also noticed the Ionian Greeks pretty much get ignored in lieu of the Dorian Greeks.

The Big Peat said:
its incredibly under represented in mythology
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Not as much as the Byzantines. :)
 
Err, thats meant to say fantasy, not mythology.

Anyway, yes, Byzantines also very underrepresented, but not quite as iconic either. I can't think of anything so simultaneously iconic and ignored.
 
Brian Turner said:
I'd love to read more fantasy inspired by the ancient world. Hope you'll both consider putting something up in Critiques when ready, to see if we can help. :)
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Yep, will do - just haven't been brave enough so far. Some of it probably won't seem very Ancient Greek. but maybe I'll post a naval battle - what do you think?
 
aThenian said:
Yep, will do - just haven't been brave enough so far. ... maybe I'll post a naval battle - what do you think?
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To get the most out of Critiques it's best to post the first 1500 words of the novel itself. It's the best introduction to the story, and will also show up any short-comings.

It can be deflating to get constructive criticism, especially at first - but, honestly, it's the best sort of feedback you can get, because it can help push you into making the story stronger - not least through little issues that were overlooked, or even suggestions that can be used to improve some part.

aThenian said:
Some of it probably won't seem very Ancient Greek.
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Your setting should come through at the start. You don't need to use any overt references, but anyone who reads historical fiction/fantasy will notice the little details. :)

Which reminds me, I'm sure we had someone submit something a while ago that involved training/running and was set in some form of Ancient Greek setting, and was quite good - but I forget now who posted it. :( [EDIT: Just ran a search a search - it was MWagner. :) ]
 
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Brian Turner said:
To get the most out of Critiques it's best to post the first 1500 words of the novel itself. It's the best introduction to the story, and will also show up any short-comings.

It can be deflating to get constructive criticism, especially at first - but, honestly, it's the best sort of feedback you can get, because it can help push you into making the story stronger - not least through little issues that were overlooked, or even suggestions that can be used to improve some part.



Your setting should come through at the start. You don't need to use any overt references, but anyone who reads historical fiction/fantasy will notice the little details. :)

Which reminds me, I'm sure we had someone submit something a while ago that involved training/running and was set in some form of Ancient Greek setting, and was quite good - but I forget now who posted it. :( [EDIT: Just ran a search a search - it was MWagner. :) ]
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Yeah, that was me. I've substantially re-worked the opening, and added the dreaded prologue.

I do have a short-story that I'm ready to offer up for critique, though it's not a historical fantasy.
 
If I can jump in at this late stage: I published a novel on late 5th century Roman Gaul (the downfall of the realm of Syagrius). When writing it the single most important thing for me was - as another poster said earlier - to keep the characters in the mindset of their time and still make them sympathetic to contemporary readers.
 
Justin Swanton said:
If I can jump in at this late stage: I published a novel on late 5th century Roman Gaul (the downfall of the realm of Syagrius). When writing it the single most important thing for me was - as another poster said earlier - to keep the characters in the mindset of their time and still make them sympathetic to contemporary readers.
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What is name of the book? I have an interest for that period and you do not tend to see much about Syagrius.
 
Well, it isn't called Historical FICTION because everything in the book actually happened, is it?

A major thing to remember too is that most of the actual histories we have from that era are largely speculation anyway. While it's a few centuries earlier, that remains a major reason the Arthur stories are perennial, nobody really knows what happened for a fact (they don't even know where Camelot was for sure), so you can say whatever you want.

You mentioned Ragnar Lothbrok and if you're referring to History Channel's VIKINGS rather than the actual Saga it is partially based on that's a good example. VIKINGS had the siege of Paris like a year or so after Lindisfarne, which actually happened in 794 and Paris was in 856, also they had Rollo invading Normandy contemporaneous with Paris but it was more than a hundred years later and nobody knows who Rollo really was, though they're pretty sure he was no relative of Ragnar, who himself is possibly not a real character but a composite of several people.

OTOH, from what you say I don't think you're writing Alternate History either, which is a subgenre all its own. AH is all about the Alternate, rather than the history, coming from just one "Point of Departure" and then trying to be highly accurate to a world all its own. Its devotees, of whom I am one, can be even geekier than regular history aficianados.

Write, know the age and be true to it but never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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