Arya is the Valonqar

[The Imp]

I was going to post this in the crackpot section, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

Possibilities for whome the Valonqar is are many, and you could make a good argument for many of them. Tyrion, Jaime, Stannis, Rickon and Sandoz all come two mind as people who are possibilities to fulfill the role.

My choice is Arya, and not because of the possibility that the word may not be gender specific. Consider the following, most of which will be obvious.

Queen Cersei has been number one on Arya's hit list since she formed it.

Arya is training to be a Faceless Man.

I believe that at some point she will either be ordered to kill Cersei or will decide to do so on her own. She will never become no one in my opinion, and will always want her dead.

Getting close to Cersei will obviously be an issue. There is the tiny matter of Ser Robert Strong, as well as the other members of the kingsguard.

Here comes the part that I think ties it all together.

If Arya, with full Faceless Man training wanted to get close to Cersei, how better to do it then with her last remaining child, Tommen.

I think Arya will kill Tommen, possibility by warging into Ser Pounce and poisoning him.

She will then be able to transform herself into Tommen Cersei will never suspect it.

She will then kill her, and in the process, fulfill the last 2 parts of the Maggy the Frog prophecy.

What I like about this is that George RR Martin has pretty much been telling us for the entire series that Arya is going to kill Cersei, and is giving her the training with which she can accomplish the task.

This might take a bit of tweaking, but unless someone convinces me otherwise, I think that this holds up as well as any other theory that I've heard.

Thoughts?

 

[Adam Stubbings]

I know the show has diverged from the books but it would appear its been set up for the sand snakes to kill Tommen

 

[The Imp]

While I respect and like the job that D and D have done, for me the books are canon and are what really matter to me. I think in the end the books and the show will be in the same place, there will B major differences in the way some events are handled. For instance, I think that Jon's Resurrection will happen very differently in the books. You could probably go back and find the discussions that we had a few years ago where we talked about how that might happen.

I agree that theSand Snakes MAY kill Tommen, but even if that were to happen it would have no bearing on the books.

 

[The Big Peat]

I have to admit, I first heard of the divergences being that Martin would let the TV show tell the story he had originally created, and change the books to be different and also escape the fact that the fans have worked out certain facts ahead of time. In which case, to me, the TV show would be the canon, and the books an interesting alternate possibility. But I may have heard that wrong and everytime I read something about the show I seem to come away with a different opinion of how deep the connection with Martin's work is.

In any case, the theory seems quite possible, and just because the Sand Snakes are currently being lined up to kill Tommen, doesn't mean that's not a red herring.

 

[MemoryTale]

I only have one niggle with your theory, and that is Arya hasn't killed most of the people on her list. Joffrey was killed by the queen of thorns, Gregor was killed by Oberyn, Dunsen was killed by Sandor, who (if he is dead) was killed in turn by wounds received from Dunsen and the Tickler. Just because Cersei's on the list doesn't mean Arya will kill her.

 

[The Big Peat]

Why give her a list if she kills no one on it though?

You can probably hold the list up both ways as evidence I guess, but certainly something should come of it.

 

[The Imp]

I only have one niggle with your theory, and that is Arya hasn't killed most of the people on her list. Joffrey was killed by the queen of thorns, Gregor was killed by Oberyn, Dunsen was killed by Sandor, who (if he is dead) was killed in turn by wounds received from Dunsen and the Tickler. Just because Cersei's on the list doesn't mean Arya will kill her.

This wasn't aone instance of Arya thing, "gee, I'd really like to kill.....". Arya suffered great amounts of emotional trauma, and when she finally started saying that prayer, ki)Ingram those people had become part of her identity. One could say she was praying to the Many Faced God and her prayers have been [so far] partially answered.

I'll ask a question. Would YOU want to be on her list knowing what you know about her cunning, skill, will, determination and ongoing FM training? There is no doubt in my mind that Cersei is in mortal danger. The Many Faced God has been, and is still answering, Arya's prayers.

 

[Narkalui]

I'll ask a question. Would YOU want to be on her list knowing what you know about her cunning, skill, will, determination and ongoing FM training? There is no doubt in my mind that Cersei is in mortal danger. The Many Faced God has been, and is still answering, Arya's prayers.

I really like this. The notion of Devine intervention in SOIAF is definitely a theme worth exploring. And also in terms the sorcery performed by the Red Priests, is it sorcery at all or the Devine Will of R'hllor?

But I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start a new one. Back to Arya...

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

What I especially like about this theory is the idea of Arya "becoming" Tommen in order to kill Cersei. Tommen of course being a younger brother as well. It fits very nicely with the Frog's prophecy of Cersei outliving all her children and being killed by the Valonquar.

 

[MemoryTale]

This wasn't aone instance of Arya thing, "gee, I'd really like to kill.....". Arya suffered great amounts of emotional trauma, and when she finally started saying that prayer, ki)Ingram those people had become part of her identity. One could say she was praying to the Many Faced God and her prayers have been [so far] partially answered.

I'll ask a question. Would YOU want to be on her list knowing what you know about her cunning, skill, will, determination and ongoing FM training? There is no doubt in my mind that Cersei is in mortal danger. The Many Faced God has been, and is still answering, Arya's prayers.

Oh I'm not denying Arya really really wants Cersei dead, or wouldn't kill her given half a chance. Just that you can't hold up her list as evidence. Cersei is in danger, yes, but she's just as likely to die by one of her own blunders as she is being stabbed in the face by a vengeful Arya.

 

[Brian G Turner]

It fits very nicely with the Frog's prophecy of Cersei outliving all her children and being killed by the Valonquar.

But...if Tommen's not dead...

Even if Arya wargs into Tommen, she'll simply share his body - as Bran did with Hodor.

Also, a big problem with Arya warging into someone else's body is that her assassin skills will become a lot less useful - there'd be little point fine-tuning her sensory skills, muscle development, and motor coordination to be a deadly killer, only to lose all that in another body.

 

[The Imp]

But...if Tommen's not dead...

Even if Arya wargs into Tommen, she'll simply share his body - as Bran did with Hodor.

Also, a big problem with Arya warging into someone else's body is that her assassin skills will become a lot less useful - there'd be little point fine-tuning her sensory skills, muscle development, and motor coordination to be a deadly killer, only to lose all that in another body.

Brian, I don't have her warging into Tommen. I think she MAY warg into Ser Pounce as a way of getting close to Tommen. She will then kill him , fulfilling part of the prophecy, THEN use her FM training to BECOME Tommen so she can get to Cersei. The prophecy would be fulfilled, especially if she turns back to Arya BEFORE killing Cersei so she knows her last child is dead.

 

[Eversummer]

Nice one, Imp.

Hmmm... it seemed like a trend that all of Cersei's children die of poisoning. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Arya killed only one man from her Hit List (The man's name is Polliver, right?)

Since Brynden Rivers (in the TV series) had said that Bran could not stay with him and become a tree, Bran might be the Valonqar instead of Arya...?

Please ignore me I'm just rambling with my third beer on my hand. XD

 

[MemoryTale]

Nice one, Imp.

Hmmm... it seemed like a trend that all of Cersei's children die of poisoning. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Arya killed only one man from her Hit List (The man's name is Polliver, right?)

Since Brynden Rivers (in the TV series) had said that Bran could not stay with him and become a tree, Bran might be the Valonqar instead of Arya...?

Please ignore me I'm just rambling with my third beer on my hand. XD

I don't know about in the show, but in the books only Joffrey is dead. And I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I think Arya has killed at least two men on her list, or at least caused their deaths. She gave Chiswyck to Ja'Quin as one of her names, and stabbed the Tickler to death herself.

 

[Narkalui]

Sandor Clegane, Gregor Clegane....

 

[juleska]

I was going to post this in the crackpot section, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

Possibilities for whome the Valonqar is are many, and you could make a good argument for many of them. Tyrion, Jaime, Stannis, Rickon and Sandoz all come two mind as people who are possibilities to fulfill the role.

My choice is Arya, and not because of the possibility that the word may not be gender specific. Consider the following, most of which will be obvious.

Queen Cersei has been number one on Arya's hit list since she formed it.

Arya is training to be a Faceless Man.

I believe that at some point she will either be ordered to kill Cersei or will decide to do so on her own. She will never become no one in my opinion, and will always want her dead.

Getting close to Cersei will obviously be an issue. There is the tiny matter of Ser Robert Strong, as well as the other members of the kingsguard.

Here comes the part that I think ties it all together.

If Arya, with full Faceless Man training wanted to get close to Cersei, how better to do it then with her last remaining child, Tommen.

I think Arya will kill Tommen, possibility by warging into Ser Pounce and poisoning him.

She will then be able to transform herself into Tommen Cersei will never suspect it.

She will then kill her, and in the process, fulfill the last 2 parts of the Maggy the Frog prophecy.

What I like about this is that George RR Martin has pretty much been telling us for the entire series that Arya is going to kill Cersei, and is giving her the training with which she can accomplish the task.

This might take a bit of tweaking, but unless someone convinces me otherwise, I think that this holds up as well as any other theory that I've heard.

Thoughts?

This makes a lot of sense. I've thought about Arya as the Valonqar because of her faceless men training and because of it being gender neutral. And I've thought about Tommen being the Valonqar because he's an actual little brother and Tyrion is too obvious. I thought maybe Tommen would turn against her at some point, like if he found out she was behind Marjorie's imprisonment? But the idea of Arya AS Tommen being the Valonqar is definitely intriguing. I guess the only question is...why would Arya kill Tommen? Necessity?

 

[Narkalui]

Or perhaps Tommen will be the 'mark', the one who someone has paid The Faceless Men to kill. Perhaps Magister Ilyrio will be footing the bill? But it certainly rings true that if Arya got herself onto that contract then she'd definitely take the opportunity to take her wonderful revenge on Cersei.

 

[The Imp]

This makes a lot of sense. I've thought about Arya as the Valonqar because of her faceless men training and because of it being gender neutral. And I've thought about Tommen being the Valonqar because he's an actual little brother and Tyrion is too obvious. I thought maybe Tommen would turn against her at some point, like if he found out she was behind Marjorie's imprisonment? But the idea of Arya AS Tommen being the Valonqar is definitely intriguing. I guess the only question is...why would Arya kill Tommen? Necessity?

Hi Jules.

When I originally posted the idea I thought it would be out of necessity, and it still might be comma but I like Nark's ideathat Tommen might be the target and Arya then seizes the opportunity to take out the most important person on her list.

 

[juleska]

Hi Jules.

When I originally posted the idea I thought it would be out of necessity, and it still might be comma but I like Nark's ideathat Tommen might be the target and Arya then seizes the opportunity to take out the most important person on her list.

Hi!

Yes I like that idea, too. Tommen is not as obvious a target because he's not a **** like Joffrey was, and he's not in the hands of their enemies as Myrcella is. He's more well liked. Therefore his only obvious enemy would be someone looking to eject the Usurper line and restore the Targaryens, so Ilyrio makes a great deal of sense. Great theory.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I've been toying with this idea and I would like it very much if it were so. It is plausible and makes sense. But it would be more fun if she warged into that old black tomcat Arya was chasing in book 1 and we all assumed was Rhaenys's Balerion. It would be more fun if it were because that tomcat has already been bothering Tommen and his kittens.

I agree with the general sentiment that we shouldn't use the TV Show to try and dismantle book related theories. TV Show already diverged a lot.