Dear Social Justice Warriors of Yale...

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Now that's radical. Could get you fired, like saying that all lives matter.

In context, saying "All lives matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is equivalent to saying, in response to Brown v Board of Education's "Black children's education matters", "Don't all children's educations matter?"

"It's terrible that Nazis are shoving Jews in ovens. Jewish lives matter"

"Why do you keep harping on about the Jews? All lives matter."
 
When I first heard "black lives matter," my thought (kept to myself of course) was: "Good -- so they are going to stop killing each other." Because the disproportion between the danger to African-Americans from white cops and the danger to African-Americans from other African-Americans is so enormous as to make Black Lives Matter's assertion of "genocide" against them preposterous. But we live by slogan in these times. I would have thought universities were places that questioned Slogan Life. Now it is where people go to be initiated into it.
 
This is off the point of the thread(or maybe it is linked).

It does seem that US law enforcement has a poor track record when it comes to gunning down unarmed African-Americans. Maybe that is media lead and 'living by slogan', but it does not hide the fact over zealous white officers have killed, continue to kill African-Americans and get away with it. I can understand that anger and outrage. However the truth is that all lives do matter.

I think using terms like 'Slogan Life' and 'living by slogan' are objectionable taking the subject matter into consideration.
 
A couple of points:

1) They're kids, just becoming adults

But the issue here is that students urge the diminution or discarding of worthwhile literary studies in favor of something else. Your comment suggests that they will make mistakes as everyone does in youth, will see more clearly later, etc. There may be truth in that, but what about the opportunity they should have had, and have lost, to work hard in true literary studies for a few years?

As a university teacher, I strongly emphasize the canonical writers and works. It is possible that students will look back in 25 years and say their courses from me were immersion in dusty white male books. But I don't think that will be the common evaluation of their experience. What often seems to happen, to judge from spoken comments they make to me or in the university's anonymous end-of-semester evaluations, is that they enjoyed the courses, that they liked (say) Shakespeare whom they had previously feared, etc. I don't think they will look back in 25 years and feel that they were conscripted into the politics of the instructor and/or a vocal student group. Nor, I hope and believe, will they come to think that taking English courses was all about being "clever," as in courses that are all about using "lenses" of theory, etc.

Again, as I explained elsewhere in this thread, the study of literature is demanding and takes time. Most students have just a few years. They need to read widely and deeply in the canon during that time. After that time, if they want to explore current writing and the obsessions of our chattering classes, they may do so -- having, I hope, internalized a sense of what literature is and does, so that they have a good basis for comparison, etc. I said "after that time," but courses can be offered in current topics, along with the more traditional curriculum. I would have said, "Please, not instead of the traditional curriculum." But my sense is that this is largely a lost cause.
 
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I think using terms like 'Slogan Life' and 'living by slogan' are objectionable taking the subject matter into consideration.

Really, considering the context of universities?

Can you imagine what would happen if Socrates materialized on a university quad and started asking probing questions about slogans being paraded on signs, shouted by crowds, etc.? Or if he materialized in many a classroom and demurred to endorse certain slogans, but instead questioned the group? Wouldn't he be denounced for his arrogation of "privilege"-- what gives him the right, etc etc.?
 
It is possible that students will look back
With commitments of work, family and simply being older, in most cases what you miss out on 11 to 21 is lost forever.

However the truth is that all lives do matter.
And none matter more than others. Some slogans and campaigns are actually racist, suggesting minorities are MORE important. The BBC was rejecting applicants for a job automatically if they were not from what is LOCALLY in UK an ethnic Minority*.

Or the NI UK law that says you must reveal your primary school so that an assumption can be made on your Irish Nationalist / British Unionist views (usually wrongly conflated with Catholic and Protestant), in interests of Government monitoring if employers are being fair. Actually it's discriminatory and evil in many ways.

Justice, welfare, education, job opportunities needs to be "blind" to ethnic origin, sexual orientation and religion as long as the practises of the person are within the law and respect other people etc. Too much anti-gender or anti-racial activism is evilly against anyone different to the campaigner.

Imposted quotas are not the solution, they foster division and are and illusory fix to discrimination. Education of the young in integrated communities and schools is the solution. NI, for instance is MORE segregated in community (since Good Friday Agreement) and has almost no integrated Education. The Power sharing Executive is not democratic and sets division in stone. They have bribed the bombers and gunmen to stop, but the society is WORSE than 20 years ago in prejudice, bigotry, discrimination.

[* non-"ethnic minority" "west European" ancestry are a minority world wide.]
 
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Really, considering the context of universities?

Can you imagine what would happen if Socrates materialized on a university quad and started asking probing questions about slogans being paraded on signs, shouted by crowds, etc.? Or if he materialized in many a classroom and demurred to endorse certain slogans, but instead questioned the group? Wouldn't he be denounced for his arrogation of "privilege"-- what gives him the right, etc etc.?

Not universities. Do not qoute me out of context.
 
With commitments of work, family and simply being older, in most cases what you miss out on 11 to 21 is lost forever.


And none matter more than others. Some slogans and campaigns are actually racist, suggesting minorities are MORE important. The BBC was rejecting applicants for a job automatically if they were not from what is LOCALLY in UK an ethnic Minority*.

Or the NI UK law that says you must reveal your primary school so that an assumption can be made on your Irish Nationalist / British Unionist views (usually wrongly conflated with Catholic and Protestant), in interests of Government monitoring if employers are being fair. Actually it's discriminatory and evil in many ways.

Justice, welfare, education, job opportunities needs to be "blind" to ethnic origin, sexual orientation and religion as long as the practises of the person are within the law and respect other people etc. Too much anti-gender or anti-racial activism is evilly against anyone different to the campaigner.

Imposted quotas are not the solution, they foster division and are and illusory fix to discrimination. Education of the young in integrated communities and schools is the solution. NI, for instance is MORE segregated in community (since Good Friday Agreement) and has almost no integrated Education. The Power sharing Executive is not democratic and sets division in stone. They have bribed the bombers and gunmen to stop, but the society is WORSE than 20 years ago in prejudice, bigotry, discrimination.

[* non-"ethnic minority" "west European" ancestry are a minority world wide.]

Absolutely 100% agree. Yet in the US African-American lives do seem to matter less than other ethnicities.

Way off the original subject matter here so I will leave it go.
 
Can you imagine what would happen if Socrates materialized on a university quad and started asking probing questions

Indeed - he might question and challenge the existing status quo. Not something to expect from any university student... :D
 
As an aside....

The oldest (surviving) comment on the linked Grauniad article started:
Online petitions are not news.

I could start a petition to change Wednesday to Burgerandchipsday and I would get a 'reported' more than 160 signatures.
and the second reply to that was:
Wot ya talking about? You mean it ain't burgerandchipsday?
I was eating out on Wednesday. The beach café had not had its usual delivery of supplies, so instead of the steak I would have ordered, I found myself ordering a (home-made) burger that came with chips. Spooky or what? (I hope it isn't a sign of things to come....)


Anyway, I'll now leave you all to your discussion about somewhat... er... higher matters....
 
I wasn't sure whether to ask in this thread or the Orientation one - but @Extollager - who decides if a work is canonical and by what criteria? Is it all about the use of language, or the human experience it describes? Do you think there are works - perhaps by lower class writers - that are rarely included but perhaps should be considered?

When you talk about canon, are you talking about classics? How does modern fiction fit into all this? Am simply asking, because although I devoured many classics during my teens, I'm unsure how they are treated academically for study. I suspect there may be similar confusion as when trying to define what consttitutes "literary fiction" in modern publishing.
 
Indeed - he might question and challenge the existing status quo.

He would challenge everyone. That's the whole point of the Socratic method. Every assumption is challenged. It doesn't matter who is making the assumption or why. Nobody gets a free ride, and every idea is subjected to the relentless rigour of rational criticism. In today's climate, Socrates would run afoul of those who value emotional security above open dialogue, and who immediately categorize anyone who challenges their assumptions as a bigot motivated by malice. The notion that a university should be an emotionally safe space would strike him as absurd.
 
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I have to say I'm glad I went to 'uni' many years ago - even back then I thought the SU were a bunch of...... fools, let's keep things polite and go for fools! These days I'd likely be kicked out
 
I wasn't sure whether to ask in this thread or the Orientation one - but @Extollager - who decides if a work is canonical and by what criteria? Is it all about the use of language, or the human experience it describes? Do you think there are works - perhaps by lower class writers - that are rarely included but perhaps should be considered?

When you talk about canon, are you talking about classics? How does modern fiction fit into all this? Am simply asking, because although I devoured many classics during my teens, I'm unsure how they are treated academically for study. I suspect there may be similar confusion as when trying to define what constitutes "literary fiction" in modern publishing.

I have two lists of canonical British and American literary works that I share with students. The first is from the 1960s and came from Rutgers, I believe (or else Cornell). It was a list of works upon which students should be prepared to be examined at the end of their baccalaureate careers. The second is from the 1980s and comes from the University of Illinois-Urbana. It is a list of works upon which students should be prepared to be examined before they start the Ph.D. It's interesting to note how much overlap there is. This may then be extended by looking at earlier indications of what were considered to be the British and American works with which undergraduate English studies were concerned. My sense is that there would be agreement there, too: Chaucer, Spenser, Shakespeare, Milton, Austen...; Hawthorne, Poe, Melville, Dickinson, etc.

So "the canon" seems to refer to works that, over multiple generations, were understood to be worthy of study (without the implication that nothing outside such lists was worthy). Why were they worthy of study? Because, especially when taken together, they superlatively demonstrate the development of English and the capacity of the English language to nurture the imagination, move the heart, and impart knowledge and even wisdom. Conversely, some other works did not stand the tests of the canon. We generally do not study Bulwer Lytton, Charles Reade, and a host of others unless we are specialists in the Victorian novel, for example. These were works studied in universities, reprinted as classic by publishers, mentioned in popular journalism because everyone had at least heard of them, etc. These are also--and this needs attention--the works that later writers have often been responding to, in various ways. If you don't know them, you either misunderstand someone's later work or you are dependent on second-hand explanations. For example, Wikipedia says this of Jean Rhys's Wide Sargasso Sea: "As with many postcolonial works, the novel deals with the themes of racial inequality and the harshness of displacement and assimilation. It is also concerned with power relations between men and women." Sounds like something that would appeal to the social justice warriors. But it is a response to a canonical work, Jane Eyre. You would be quite mistaken if you assumed that everyone who goes to college has already read the latter in high school.

It was this canon that, once upon a time, women and members of minority groups aspired to be able to study, be it noted--and that many women and members of minority groups still find to be worthy of study. Often it is reading such works that inflames in them as in white males the desire to become an English major.

There is no one definitive list of the canon, but I'd like to emphasize the great degree to which there has been agreement between the generations, that Chaucer and Hawthorne and all deserve study.

The canon has always included women writers. Because there is no final and definitive list, it is possible for an author eventually to drop out of the canon. I wonder if Sir Walter Scott and W. M. Thackeray are in this position. I can't speak for the latter, but would regret the loss of the former, in part because of his enormous importance for other authors, such as Tolstoy. It is also possible for an author to become recognized as canonical. I'd give Elizabeth Gaskell as an example. She is not on the Rutgers or UI list. But my sense is that she is or is becoming recognized as an author deserving study like authors widely accepted as canonical. (The book I teach is Wives and Daughters.) As for writers of non-northern European ethnicity, I'd say that V. S. Naipaul is becoming recognized as a canonical author. The book of his that I usually teach is A House for Mr. Biswas. It needs no special pleading as a work of "postcolonial" literature; it's that, but it's an outstanding novel that should stand the test of time.

Yes, the canon is classic works. We had quite a discussion of "classic" here at Chrons some time ago. My rule of thumb is that the amount of time it takes a work to be appropriately accepted as "classic" is proportional to the time that the genre has existed.* Thus a classic play should be something that has stood the test of time for rather a long time. It is too soon to say a play is a "classic" when it is only a couple of decades old. For something to be a classic play I would say it should have been around at least, oh, a century or so. (If someone wants to have a category "classic of the modern theater" that might be fine. In that case a play even by a living playwright might be a classic -- but of the modern theater, not simply a classic play.) The novel has been around for several centuries. I myself would not object if, in the context of the present discussion about British and American literature, we began, for the novel, no farther back than Defoe, so just 300 years ago. But then if we start with Defoe, surely it is too soon to call a novel a "classic" if it's not at least fifty years old! I would prefer to push it back farther -- but to keep on including A House for Mr. Biswas as the last book in a course on the British novel, perhaps.

The notion of classic and canon can be of enormous helpfulness in pushing back against the tendency most people have to overestimate their contemporaries and to underestimate things from earlier generations. It's the closest telephone pole that looks tallest. Universities used to know this.
Now they increasingly pander to ignorant clamorers --some of whom are faculty-- who do not have the historical perspective or the rich background of reading that they need to acquire in college.

By the way, I let pass remarks earlier on this thread to the effect that the canonical works were written by rich white men. I was really surprised to see that "rich." Where on earth did that come from?? It used to be a cliche--the poet who died impoverished in the garret. I guess that cliche served the sentiments of its day and now, for political reasons, we are to have a new cliche, about rich white men in control of writing.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/019875924X/?tag=id2100-20

*Thus I'd say that the science fiction genre and the modern fantasy genre are each about 150 years old. It's thus a bit too soon to say that, say, Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow is a science fiction classic, but it's not too soon to say that The Man in the High Castle is. Now I haven't defined precisely how many years have to elapse before we can consider a work as a classic. I'm, rather, appealing to the sf reading community as a whole: I'm making a bet that most sf readers would, in fact, agree with me, even if they, like me, wouldn't articulate precisely what dates are involved, etc. Again, no question, The Lord of the Rings is a classic of modern fantasy. Now, is A Wizard of Earthsea or The Last Unicorn modern fantasy classic? Here, I'd say there might be room for debate. I'd probably allow each is, but I wouldn't object to someone hesitating: Maybe it would be appropriate to hold off just a bit on declaring them such? But we'll need to wait a good 30 years or so before it becomes appropriate to say whether Eugene Vodolzakin's Laurus is a modern fantasy classic -- though I think it may be.
 
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This is perhaps at least slightly relevant, pertaining as it does to the anti-free speech tide that has been rising on campus ever since Sheldon Hackney made such a water buffalo of himself, and it is an essay I heartily approve of, especially the Thomas Sowell quote. At one time I hoped Professor Sowell would enter politics, but alas, if he hasn't by now, I suppose he doesn't intend to.
Brian John Spencer: Avoid politeness, be constructively blunt
 
I suspect that part of the problem with university literary studies is that some, perhaps many, of the professors are not really scholars, in the sense of being readers dedicated to the life of learning, etc. They're careerists and trainers, but if they had a love of literature, not as something instrumental towards social goals or towards therapy or personal aggrandizement, it faded a long time ago.

English literary studies used to be grounded, as I understand it, in the study of language, in philology. That isn't the case any more -- unfortunately, it's not the case for me; I don't know nearly as much as I'd like to, or should, about the language itself.

And what would George Orwell -- or Dorothy L. Sayers -- say to the writer of this piece?

MIELE: Leave the fourth floor

One thing I would say to her is that she seems terribly self-preoccupied, and she seems resentful that Yale didn't provide her with authors to whom she felt she could relate in a special way according to her sense of herself. It might be good if someone could say to her that she is asking of a university more than it can give; it really is her responsibility to find those special authors, for herself. Is an English faculty supposed to be a collective counselor for her, and to listen to her talk about herself at length and then prescribe the right Rx of books? How, otherwise, could they know?

When I was an undergrad, I read a number of works by canonical authors, some of which were great discoveries, some of which I liked, and some of which meant little to me (Restoration drama was pretty much a dud). At that time, I was quite stimulated by some of Colin Wilson's writings. I found them on my own, d'you see. Poetry and Mysticism, etc. It wasn't long before I'd outgrown Wilson. But I found such things on my own, thatis, apart from the classroom, in the ways one does, or anyway used to do--browsing around in bookstores, roaming the library stacks, looking at book reviews, talking with people, noticing footnotes, etc. Ah, that marvelous expression I learned in college: collateral reading. Did this Yale writer do that sort of thing?
 
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I've always thought that there's an implied 'as well' at the end of the phrase 'black lives matter'.


there should be an as well - I'm not convinced that more than a very small percentage of that movement actually think that.
 
I've always thought that there's an implied 'as well' at the end of the phrase 'black lives matter'.

Black lives do matter. That's why black, white, and brown cops are paid to patrol the country's most dangerous neighborhoods -- to try to protect black lives and the property of black people.
 
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