Barnes & Noble's big new idea to save publishing?

[Vertigo]

...I suspect this must be a joke. Traditional publishing already struggles to come to terms the 21st century. This story, if true, would mean B&N refuse to even acknowledge it.

Right alongside Waterstones over here. On that basis I'd give both of them 10 years maximum before they're out of business. Seems to me they're just burying their heads in the sand.

 

[Montero]

I tried using Waterstones website and that didn't have most of the genre authors I wanted - Lois McMaster Bujold for instance. They had Ben Aaronovitch and that was pretty much it.

 

[Vertigo]

I tried using Waterstones website and that didn't have most of the genre authors I wanted - Lois McMaster Bujold for instance. They had Ben Aaronovitch and that was pretty much it.

They don't even sell eBooks any longer. Never mind any particular authors.

 

[Overread]

Does WAterstone still supply Amazon? If not there might be still back-ground deals or restrictions there; or it might just be without their own digital service they see little point in competing with the Kindle own store.

 

[Dave]

I understand your pain over this, but it does seem to be only a natural extension of the Costa coffee shops that are already taking up bookshelf space in Waterstones. They obviously are successful in getting people to buy more books otherwise they would have stopped rolling them out to more shops. Unless I'm missing something?

For SFF fans, how about a bookshop that was also a Cosplay bar?

It could be modeled on a fictional bar such as Quark's in DS9 or Mos Eisley or the Mended Drum in Ankh-Morpork, or maybe have more than one? No tourists allowed! You can't only enter past the Vogon Guards if you are properly dressed (maybe you can loan something) - and leave the Bat'leth and Blasters at the door please.

I've been to the touring Star Trek Experience when it was in Hyde Park and to Harry Potter World in Leavesden, Watford. Both had/have bars/restaurants that made serious money, but didn't have people dressed the part.

On the otherhand, maybe books and drinks don't mix. I'd see a problem with stock getting damaged. Also, what next - they'll be playing Pokemon Go in libraries. Oh! They already are!

 

[Vertigo]

Does WAterstone still supply Amazon? If not there might be still back-ground deals or restrictions there; or it might just be without their own digital service they see little point in competing with the Kindle own store.

If by that you mean "do they sell the Kindle?", then no they stopped a little while back. But their marketing strategy on this was already completely bizarre; they sold the Kindle which uses the AZW proprietary Amazon variation of the Mobi format but their online ebook sales site only sold ePub which can't be read on a Kindle. How's that for messed up?

 

[Overread]

Vertigo I mean in the old days when Amazon was new Waterstones basically was the Amazon book store. I don't know if that arrangement still goes on; but basically in those days Waterstones didn't have any shop online - you just went to Amazon. It might explain why they can't sell Kindle ebooks now even though they could sell the unit itself.

Also I can't see how they could sell Amazon ebooks anyway; Amazon has no need to sublicence and there'd be 0 profit for Waterstones to conduct the transaction as no one would pay more htan what the Amazon store sells it for. And its unlikely many authors would settle for a Waterstones over an Amazon sale restriction (because most would want to be on Amazon being as its the biggest - esp since you don't have to pass any tests or much to actually sell there if you self-publish).

 

[Vertigo]

Vertigo I mean in the old days when Amazon was new Waterstones basically was the Amazon book store. I don't know if that arrangement still goes on; but basically in those days Waterstones didn't have any shop online - you just went to Amazon. It might explain why they can't sell Kindle ebooks now even though they could sell the unit itself.

Also I can't see how they could sell Amazon ebooks anyway; Amazon has no need to sublicence and there'd be 0 profit for Waterstones to conduct the transaction as no one would pay more htan what the Amazon store sells it for. And its unlikely many authors would settle for a Waterstones over an Amazon sale restriction (because most would want to be on Amazon being as its the biggest - esp since you don't have to pass any tests or much to actually sell there if you self-publish).

I agree with you completely; in my opinion Waterstones have simply stumbled from one suicidal decision to the next. As you say it would be silly for them to sell AZW books but to then sell ePub they should not have been selling Kindles and instead should have been selling something like the Nook which would have been a match for their ePub online stuff. They used to sell the Sony readers before Sony left the market and that's where I bought my Sony.

 

[Overread]

Honestly I think the ebook market was just dominated too early by Amazon. Sony pulled out; the Nook has managed to just hold on; but in general its not got anything like the market the Kindle has. Amazon made a complete package of publishing and reader and dominated the market quickly. I suspect early Kindles were sold at a loss (wouldn't surprise me if they still are).

Waterstones should have not just supplied Amazon but had their own distinct store; without it they lost a grip on the online market and let it slip through their fingers.

I do wonder if they've got themselves stuck in some legal agreements that short term sounded good but long term have played more to others benefits than their own. With Amazon now holding the ebook market so strongly chances are they won't let go until they die - much like the computer game world is held by Steam; the ebook is held by Amazon. And with second hand book sales and low prices online for physical books on Amazon Waterstones is in a hard corner.


Honestly I think if government and estate agents were to relax the overheads on running highstreet shops they'd be ok - maybe not amazing sales but enough to remain viable. But so long as they are pressured its going to be hard for them to hold on. Diversifying to hold food is probably the only way to hold on - much like many websites hold on by advertising space and ad-revenue the highstreet will hold on by everyone being a food outlet.

 

[Dave]

Honestly I think if government and estate agents were to relax the overheads on running highstreet shops they'd be ok - maybe not amazing sales but enough to remain viable. But so long as they are pressured its going to be hard for them to hold on. Diversifying to hold food is probably the only way to hold on - much like many websites hold on by advertising space and ad-revenue the highstreet will hold on by everyone being a food outlet.

This is a much bigger problem for all high street shops. The high rents, high business rates, planning difficulties and logistics of small streets and big deliveries, make it almost impossible to conduct business in competition with out of town retail parks. Unfortunately, the government's only solution was to relax planning permission to make it easier to convert offices to residential. Viable thriving high streets need businesses, retail shops and residents co-existing together.

 

[Overread]

Thing is it seems government wants to kill the highstreet - which makes sense; have the shopping on the ring-road where there's easier parking and traffic control rather than in the middle of town. Thing is the out of town retail parks only attract superstores. The little shops seem to have no ability to get into that area; which is probably a reflection of the fact that whilst its cheaper to develop than inner city its still far beyond their financial means. And it seems there's no encouragement either; barring a few of those out of town service centres that have arisen over the last few years (mostly comprised of major chain stores anyway) its only huge superstores. If even a handful of "mall" type shops could get a foot hold and be focused on providing retail space for the once highstreet small shop it could turn things around for the small business owner.

 

[Montero]

Business rates are a killer - can easily be 8k and upwards per year. They have to be paid whether or not the shop is being used. So hard on a business and hard on the owner of the shop when it is empty - big incentive to make it not be a business - as in convert to a flat. Only charities don't have to pay a business rate, so it pays the owner to hand off to a charity if they can't find a tenant.

 

[Brian G Turner]

IMO it's all about embracing the digital age of the internet. Those companies that fail to do so, fail. It's as simple as that IMO.

Waterstones does have a website - but it offers a much smaller range of books at a higher price than Amazon. And we've already mentioned the lack of ebooks.

 

[Parson]

IMO it's all about embracing the digital age of the internet. Those companies that fail to do so, fail. It's as simple as that IMO.

Waterstones does have a website - but it offers a much smaller range of books at a higher price than Amazon. And we've already mentioned the lack of ebooks.

I agree. Here in the states the "mall" stores vs. "main street" stores has been fought and lost by the "main street" stores about 40 years ago. I suspect the same will happen with brick and mortar stores, vs. E commerce.

 

[Overread]

Here's the thing - take away those crippling rates and taxes - ergo make them fairer (because if the highstreet turns into only charity shops the local council won't get anything from them anyway); and your local store can at least support a local customer base.

The internet age is a great thing; but it also acts as an extreme form of supershopping and in general is VERY hard to compete on. Basically if you sell anything that a big named store sells you're stuck with either joining with them and crossing your fingers (amazon/ebay stores) or you're going to have to stock rarer items or you have to stock a vast range (doable if you just warehouse and order in as needed). So whilst there is potential there's also the fact that your competing with everyone - quite literally.

Also there are some things that help; many hobby based stores not only support the sale of items but often act as a focal point and point of recruitment of more into the hobby/area of interest. I think the dwindling membership of many clubs with the youth (and heck many young to middle aged adults) of today is partly the result of the fact that many of those hobby shops are no longer on the highstreet - they are no longer in sight. Instead they are either hidden in backwater retail areas or they are online. So there's a loss of community as well that can be hard to recover from. Which can also then drive many of those hobbies into further decline and trouble.

I think there's still a place for the small shop; yes they've got to have a web-store; yes they've got to work hard at customer service; but I think until government "allows" them to exist within the current environment then they won't. At present the whole system is geared up to push independent stores into second hand and charity retail whilst the rest is heading online or superstore.