How publishers cheat authors with discounts

[Brian G Turner]

Gatekeepers are important; like or dislike them they do work.

Do you mean like literary agents? Because almost no epic fantasy author was signed up through the normal agent submissions process. For example: George R R Martin, Robert Jordan, Robin Hobb, Steven Erikson, Joe Abercrombie, Patrick Rothfuss, R Scott Bakker, Scott Lynch, and Brandon Sanderson for starters.

And that's without mentioning Frank Herbert and JK Rowling.

The old system of gatekeepers doesn't work, and hasn't for some time. A lot of what is being read and enjoyed is in spite of them, not because of them.

To my mind the biggest weakness of self-publishing is quality.

True, in that there are no minimum standards to self-publishing. But it's increasingly common for new writers to treat self-publishing as seriously as traditional publishing, with all the quality checks in place.

There are also a number of authors who are/fear being forced out of traditional publishing who are now self-publishing, and that's before we mention their back catalogues.

This is the article - from Ann Swinfen, explaining her move from traditional to self-publishing - that made my decision for me:
Self-Publishing - Why and How - Ann Swinfen

In short - even when agents do spot talent, even when publishing editors get behind them, it's the accountants who now decide whether a project will go forward or not.

And because they remain tied to the decline in book shops and shelf space, they are less interested in debut authors, and reducing their output.

Traditional publishers have an increasingly minor market share and no longer have an essential role to play in the market. That's not me being opinionated - it's what the industry reports I link to from this section keep saying.

2c.

 

[HareBrain]

Also, the idea to advertise for one another is great. I actually went back and checked some of the books I own to see whether the big publishers did it. I couldn't really believe that they wouldn't be doing it, but it appears to be rather rare.

That is odd, now you mention it. And I'm sure it used to be quite common -- I remember reading books with several pages of ads at the end for books by both the same author and publisher stable-mates. I'm now struggling to remember how long ago or how old those books were, or which books they were, or in fact anything.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm about to sign a contract with a small publisher.

I forgot to say - congratulations. I'm really glad you got somewhere for it.

And just another quick pointer - self-publishing isn't going to be the preferred option for everyone.

I set up my own business over a decade ago - doing so came with a ton of risk, and a ton of reward. I faced both on a daily basis, and dealt with it. Self-publishing is another part of that experience.

It's scary to face risk - not everyone will want to.

I never planned to - I'd always aimed for a Big 6 deal. But I knew the odds were against me.

So while I had money I invested in editing at every stage of the writing process - I had Teresa go through two drafts. When I thought I'd finished, I paid for input from a Tor editor, literary agent, and best selling author, and rewrote/edited accordingly.

I will never claim to be a great prose writer, and my work will never be to everyone's taste - but I made every effort to produce something to commercial standards.

The trouble is, traditional publishing is no longer an option for me.

In just over 18 months, the business savings I'm scraping by on will have run out. That's not enough time to get a publishing deal, get published, and earn any form of basic living from writing. Especially not with the falling advances, low royalty rates, and double discounting with traditional publishing.

Self-publishing at least offers the ability to start quickly, and potentially earn a nominal income while my career builds. That's why it makes the better business decision for me.

But that means facing greater risks. I'd prefer not to, but I'm confident of being able to make a long-term success of it.

The bottom line is for people to look at their personal needs and aspirations, and how they may realistically realise them. Not all options will be viable. Not all options will be preferable. You make the right choice for yourself.

2c, and apologies for being garrulous.

 

[Dan Jones]

I remember reading books with several pages of ads at the end for books by both the same author and publisher stable-mates. I'm now struggling to remember how long ago or how old those books were, or which books they were, or in fact anything.

Now that both Bry/ians have mentioned it, I can't recall seeing this in paperbacks, but Kindle books definitely frequently have adverts in the back, though this mainly seems to be the Amazon recommendations algorithms based on what you've just / recently read. But yes, it's totally bizarre that a big publisher wouldn't do the same in a paperback - it's free advertising!

 

[Cathbad]

Most of the mystery books I read "back in the day" had ads in the back.

 

[Dan Jones]

Yes, you're quite right, and I do recall such ads being in older books, but much less so in modern publications.

 

[The Big Peat]

*picks up nearest book* It mentions the author's other books on the back and one of the front pages, and there's a link to the publisher's website right at the back, but that's it.

 

[ratsy]

Well, I'm bringing it back baby! Of course I'm going to advertise Woodbridge books too! I'd be crazy not to. I did have a Coming Soon in the back of Lake Manor for Explorations too.

 

[Overread]

Adverts in the back of books seem to be less popular now than they once were, even within series the next book isn't always advertised in the rear of the book; instead what I tend to see more so is a short few words by a top author on the back of the book. "Fantastic read, well worth it - GRRM" "Couldn't put it down, outstanding writing - Robin Hobb" etc....


Brian - by Gatekeepers I was referring to the general concept of there being controllers upon what does and doesn't enter the published market; which in a loose sense meant publishers and traditional publication (as pre-ebook era whilst self publishing was possible it was a lot harder to actually gain any traction and exposure). That theory still stands in that people need some sort of filtration system to sift through masses and to assure quality and standards. Where the production end doesn't meet that requirement review sites and communities has to rise to the fore to assure it - which is kind of what we are seeing but at a slow rate so far for books (likely because of the vast range of subjects and niches within writing)

 

[thaddeus6th]

Just on co-operation: this didn't work out, but a while back (for Sir Edric's Temple, the self-published part of what became The Adventures of Sir Edric Volume One) I approached an author whose comedy I enjoyed with the idea for each of us having perhaps the first chapter of the other's book in the back of our own. It'd cost us nothing, and raise our profile.

When the first part of my trilogy comes out, hopefully late this year, I plan on putting in the first chapter of the sequel to help keep readers interested.

Overread, it's possible we'll end up with a sort of 'soft' gatekeeping system whereby major blogs and websites can churn through large numbers of self-published books and give a reasonably objective appraisal.

Edited extra bit: sorry to hear of your situation, Brian. My own position isn't stellar (possibly because of sacrificial goat expenses).

 

[Ed Ryder]

How much actual advertising and promotional work do big publishers do for debut authors? I know very little about them, but they seem to spend most of their time and money on established and already best-selling authors.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

How much actual advertising and promotional work do big publishers do for debut authors? I know very little about them, but they seem to spend most of their time and money on established and already best-selling authors.

It very much depends on the publisher, the amount of advance, if any, involved and what not. Mostly, though, any author is expected to pull their weight these days.

I've said this before, elsewhere, but I've been around a few conventions on the last year or two, on panels and what not, sometimes with some big names. They work it hard. They don't slack off at all during the events, but keep going, meeting, chatting, on panels, etc. Others, like Mark Lawrence, are on SM all the time, promoting, talking, and working. No matter how big you are it's hard, hard work and the authors are expected to work too.

 

[Dan Jones]

They work it hard. They don't slack off at all during the events, but keep going, meeting, chatting, on panels, etc.

Yeah, this. And I don't see why - if one was given the opportunity - one wouldn't want to do this and get out there to meet other readers, fans, writers, and industry professionals, which in turn brings more opportunities...

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Yeah, this. And I don't see why - if one was given the opportunity - one wouldn't want to do this and get out there to meet other readers, fans, writers, and industry professionals, which in turn brings more opportunities...

Because you, like me, are extrovert and do it for your job (I think?) and aren't daunted by it. For others, the very idea of doing any of this sort of thing is utter horror.*

*In which case, find a promo platform you can stand!

 

[Ed Ryder]

Stick me in front of an audience of several hundred and I'm completely confident and love it. Put me in a room with five people I don't know to make conversation and I'll make RainMan look chatty

 

[Stephen Palmer]

It is very hard work being an author. One of the hardest aspects is simply keeping on keeping on, regardless of any "success." Simply having the mental energy to create with absolutely no guarantee of any payoff - even after commercial or critical plaudits - is exhausting.

Writers without a deep wellspring of material (what my original editor in the mid-90s called "stuff") generally don't turn into authors. If you only have one book inside you (which in 99% of cases will be a disguised autobiography) then you've got no chance in this biz.

As for the promo aspect, like many newbies I was hopeless to begin with and had to learn the hard way, i.e. by experience. But it does get easier as you build up a reserve of experiences and strategies. I'm at ease now with large or small groups. In the old days, I never used to read my own work, but now I can do that, and even enjoy it!

Many authors have told me that they can do the "standing up in front of everyone" thing for short, limited periods of time. These people tend to be the introverts, and a very high proportion of writers/authors are introverts. The whole interaction thing is mentally exhausting. So, this aspect of promo needs to be seriously considered by all those trying for "success." And if you don't know whether or not you're an introvert, read Susan Cain's book Quiet.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Indeed, Jo.

The cave on an isolated North Sea island provides me with great privacy (except for the annual sacrifice of seven red-headed maidens from the local village to appease my wrath, of course) but social events are another matter.

Stephen, a problem is that 99% of a writer's job is being in a room by themselves, typing. The other 1% expects them to become (whether in person or online) incredibly social and outgoing. Getting both parts right is tricky. [I imagine].

 

[Ursa major]

I hope that "red" hair is... er... dyed that colour....

 

[millymollymo]

Well, I'm bringing it back baby! Of course I'm going to advertise Woodbridge books too! I'd be crazy not to. I did have a Coming Soon in the back of Lake Manor for Explorations too.

If you're bring back adverts, can you also bring back "cut and save" tokens. X tokens = ultra rare P̶o̶k̶e̶m̶o̶n̶ stories/content/collector badges/artwork...
(So not showing my age)

How much actual advertising and promotional work do big publishers do for debut authors? I know very little about them, but they seem to spend most of their time and money on established and already best-selling authors.

Much is done by databases and spreadsheets. Some is done via social media. And debuts might get some TLC from the marketing department leading up to launch day. EVERYTHING not on the spreadsheet is usually sparked by the author.

Because you, like me, are extrovert and do it for your job (I think?) and aren't daunted by it. For others, the very idea of doing any of this sort of thing is utter horror.*

*In which case, find a promo platform you can stand!

^
This.

Indeed, Jo.

The cave on an isolated North Sea island provides me with great privacy (except for the annual sacrifice of seven red-headed maidens from the local village to appease my wrath, of course) but social events are another matter.

That's my cave... get off the firewood. And leave the lifeboat alone.

Stephen, a problem is that 99% of a writer's job is being in a room by themselves, typing. The other 1% expects them to become (whether in person or online) incredibly social and outgoing. Getting both parts right is tricky. [I imagine].

^
This too.

 

[pambaddeley]

I forgot to say - congratulations. I'm really glad you got somewhere for it.

And just another quick pointer - self-publishing isn't going to be the preferred option for everyone.

I set up my own business over a decade ago - doing so came with a ton of risk, and a ton of reward. I faced both on a daily basis, and dealt with it. Self-publishing is another part of that experience.

It's scary to face risk - not everyone will want to.

I never planned to - I'd always aimed for a Big 6 deal. But I knew the odds were against me.

So while I had money I invested in editing at every stage of the writing process - I had Teresa go through two drafts. When I thought I'd finished, I paid for input from a Tor editor, literary agent, and best selling author, and rewrote/edited accordingly.

I will never claim to be a great prose writer, and my work will never be to everyone's taste - but I made every effort to produce something to commercial standards.

The trouble is, traditional publishing is no longer an option for me.

In just over 18 months, the business savings I'm scraping by on will have run out. That's not enough time to get a publishing deal, get published, and earn any form of basic living from writing. Especially not with the falling advances, low royalty rates, and double discounting with traditional publishing.

Self-publishing at least offers the ability to start quickly, and potentially earn a nominal income while my career builds. That's why it makes the better business decision for me.

But that means facing greater risks. I'd prefer not to, but I'm confident of being able to make a long-term success of it.

The bottom line is for people to look at their personal needs and aspirations, and how they may realistically realise them. Not all options will be viable. Not all options will be preferable. You make the right choice for yourself.

2c, and apologies for being garrulous.

Excellent post by Ann Swinfen, thanks for posting that. At the risk of banging on about this again, I've used historical fiction as an example before - I recall years ago when writers couldn't get historical novels published because the publishers kept saying 'there's no readership'. Meanwhile the readers were resorting to libraries for Ann Plaidy, Dorothy Dunnett and other best selling historical novelists of the past. The only thing that seemed to break this mindset - because historical fiction is now enormous - was the breakthrough Cadfael novels which became very popular with the TV series starring Derek Jacobi, and 'The Name of the Rose' which I think sneaked in as a literary novel and took off when it was filmed starring Sean Connery. Then publishers started turning out a lot of other medieval mysteries, usually as series, and branching out into Roman mysteries and the like. After these pushed the door open a bit, we started to get straight historicals from the like of Philippa Gregory. It just showed the whole self fulfilling prophecy mindset that the publishing industry has had since at least the 1980s onwards.