The 'Golden Age of British Detective Fiction" Thread

[mosaix]

Not a fan of Christie I’m afraid. She gives the reader absolutely no chance of resolving the case because there’s nearly always some ‘twin sister adopted at birth who changed her name etc., etc.’ And, amazingly, her detective suspects this and goes on to confirm his / her suspicions by a visit to Somerset House. All this is hidden from the reader until the denouement.

Also, I agree, that her characters are flat and sometimes exist in name only. For me, this leads to difficulty in telling the characters apart as the story progresses.

 

[Vladd67]

Not a fan of Christie I’m afraid. She gives the reader absolutely no chance of resolving the case because there’s nearly always some ‘twin sister adopted at birth who changed her name etc., etc.’ And, amazingly, her detective suspects this and goes on to confirm his / her suspicions by a visit to Somerset House. All this is hidden from the reader until the denouement.

Also, I agree, that her characters are flat and sometimes exist in name only. For me, this leads to difficulty in telling the characters apart as the story progresses.

You prefer the Ellery Queen type story where the detective says near the end of the book, ok you know all that I do, who do you think did it?
I get a monthly mystery magazine from amazon and each month they have a short story where you have to work out the killer, answer next month. They are usually easy to get.

 

[mosaix]

You prefer the Ellery Queen type story where the detective says near the end of the book, ok you know all that I do, who do you think did it?
I get a monthly mystery magazine from amazon and each month they have a short story where you have to work out the killer, answer next month. They are usually easy to get.

Not strictly Vladd, but I do like Ellery Queen. I just like a story where the author doesn't go out of their way to hide stuff and the detective sees things that are impossible for the reader to see. I think it's highly unlikely that a single Christie reader has ever guessed what was going to be revealed by the detective in the denouement.

 

[Vladd67]

Reminds me of the end of the film Murder by Death.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Not a fan of Christie I’m afraid. She gives the reader absolutely no chance of resolving the case because there’s nearly always some ‘twin sister adopted at birth who changed her name etc., etc.’ And, amazingly, her detective suspects this and goes on to confirm his / her suspicions by a visit to Somerset House. All this is hidden from the reader until the denouement.

Also, I agree, that her characters are flat and sometimes exist in name only. For me, this leads to difficulty in telling the characters apart as the story progresses.

Yes, the viewer/reader has to be given a chance to figure it out for themselves, or at least be left some breadcrumbs so that the reveal isn't entirely a surprise.

 

[Randy M.]

Something just occurred to me that might be of interest to anyone following this thread, if they aren't already aware of it: Around 2017 the British Library began reissuing some "classic" British mysteries, mainly published from the 1920s through the early 1960s: British Library Crime Classics. I think it's safe to say they are mainly "fair play" mysteries, the majority of which are by authors I've never heard of like Josephine Bell, John Bude, and E. C. R. Lorac. I've only read one novel so far, The Christmas Egg by Mary Kelly, which was a pleasant diversion, likewise the collection, The Christmas Card and Other Stories. The collection is curated by Martin Edwards, a mystery writer himself, and apparently very knowledgeable about British crime fiction.

Small piece of trivia: So far the only author published both by the British Library Crime Classics and American Mystery Classics is John Dickson Carr, an American Anglophile who adopted the British style mystery, a goodly number if not all set in England.

 

[The Judge]

Probably not the British Library ones, but in recent years I have picked up two or three re-issued "classic" murder mysteries from allegedly unjustly neglected authors from the 20s and 30s (copyright having likely expired and the books therefore fair game to any publisher now), and to my mind there was nothing at all unjust about their neglect which was in actual fact entirely justified!

If the BL collection is being done by someone who knows his stuff, things should well be different, but I confess that though I've seen the BL ones for sale with the Museum Selection catalogue, I've not been at all tempted, lovely though the covers are.

 

[Randy M.]

I suspect there are a lot of good mysteries and crime novels that are not as well-known as they should be. But like every other genre when its popularity is highest, mysteries attracted a lot of not-so-good writers (see also, horror, circa 1984-90) and so produced an inordinate number of stinkers.

Besides Carr, another author I recognized was Julian Symons, whose A Three-Pipe Problem was an enjoyable play on Sherlock Holmes: An actor playing Holmes gets involved in a murder and decides to see if, using Holmes' process, he can uncover the murderer. His non-fiction book, Bloody Murder, is a pretty good survey of the entire mystery genre from inception to about 1980.

Anthony Berkeley was a founding member of the Detection Club. I think I read a novel by him but so long ago I've forgotten everything about it.

I also noticed in the BL catalog Green for Danger by Christianna Brand. Can't speak to the novel, but if you ever get to see the film version, oddly enough titled Green for Danger, go for it. Alastair Sim as Inspector Cockrill is every bit as much fun to watch as when Sim played Scrooge.

 

[Bick]

Not a fan of Christie I’m afraid. She gives the reader absolutely no chance of resolving the case because there’s nearly always some ‘twin sister adopted at birth who changed her name etc., etc.’ And, amazingly, her detective suspects this and goes on to confirm his / her suspicions by a visit to Somerset House. All this is hidden from the reader until the denouement.

I think this is perhaps a little unfair. If you read her books closely, all the clues are there, and there's rarely if ever a reveal at the end that you were not previously told about. What Christie does very cleverly is direct your attention away from the clue and focus attention on things that are ultimately less important or red herrings, but the clue is always provided. Can you provide an example of the sort of thing you're referring to, as I've read 30 or so of Christie's books and cannot think of a single example where she 'cheats' the reader in this way.

 

[Randy M.]

And something else just occurred to me. I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but here seems appropriate, too.

Anyone who likes classic British mysteries, might like the TV show Magpie Murders, based on a novel of the same name by Anthony Horowitz, who also scripted the 6-part series. For that matter, you might also like his novel of the same title.

Both feature an editor trying to find the final chapter, and so the resolution and unveiling of a murderer, of the latest novel by her company's best selling author, who has died. Or maybe been killed. The show moves back and forth between the fictional story and the editor's search. The shifts between the novel's 1955 setting and the present day are extremely well done, and the whole merges into a fascinating story. The novel is formatted differently, the first half being the unfinished novel, the second the editor's gradually intensifying search for the lost chapter.

Horowitz has stated a fondness for the traditional British mystery, and here has worked to merge that with something a little more contemporary.

 

[Randy M.]

Just started John Dickson Carr's The Plague Court Murders, written under the pseudonym, Carter Dickson. He was so prolific during the 1930s, he started multiple series, this one featuring Sir Henry Merrivale. My vague memory is that these were rather more comic than his Dr. Gideon Fell series, but I have seen critics say Merrivale and Fell are pretty much the same.

 

[Randy M.]

Hi, all.

Wouldn't ordinarily link to another SFF website, but I wrote a review of Martin Edwards' history of the mystery, The Life of Crime, which they felt would appeal to some members. Recalling this thread, I thought some here would find it of interest, too. Edwards, a Brit, does discuss fiction from before WWI and after WWII, but a large chunk of the book offers information about the Golden Age, and the books from that time period inform much of the work that came thereafter.

 

[paranoid marvin]

On a related note, there's a tv series (sometimes repeated on Talking Pictures TV) called 'The Rivals of Sherlock Holmes' which depicts other fictional detectives around at the same time as Arthur Conan Doyle's creation.

 

[Extollager]

Just read Sayers' Nine Tailors for the third time. What a wonderfully good book, with that evocation of landscape and weather, intriguing antiquarian details, varied characters, etc. Hardly short of being a work of genius.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I really enjoy old British-based detective fiction – the classical whodunnits of the mystery writers of Britain from about 1920 through to about 1950. This period is generally referred to as the Golden Age of British detective fiction, and it was a hugely popular genre of course. The genre brought many female writers to the fore and they dominated the period in sales, though there were many males writers who wrote such mysteries with success too.

The successful female writers in the genre were referred to as Crime Queens, and by common consensus (and with the benefit of hindsight), there are four writers that have now long been considered the four queens of crime fiction: Agatha Christie, Margery Allingham, Dorothy L. Sayers and Ngaio Marsh.

As well as producing much-loved books that have stood the test of time, these four writers exemplify the genre nicely by having recurring detectives in long series. We get to know the detectives, their methods, foibles and mannerisms.

I thought I would kick off a thread dedicated to British Golden Age detective fiction, by listing what I hope is a reasonably comprehensive starting list of notable authors in the genre. I’ve noted their main detectives (pretty much all had a recurring detective or two), as well as some of the most well regarded books. I’ve read a fair few, but not the majority of these. I’m looking forward to reading more. A surprisingly large number are still in print, despite the fact that many are no longer household names.

The list is unapologetically British – sorry, no hard-boiled US crime here – this is strictly a mystery genre. The settings of these tend more to the country town in England, with murder most horrid being committed by the scullery girl (really an exiled half-sister), in the drawing room with “pills” in the brandy.

I’ve noted a few works by the four most notable Queens of Crime first, then followed with other authors (in no particular order). Who have I missed? What books from these authors do you particularly like? Which authors would you say are ‘better’ than others? Let’s talk mysteries here.

(Incidentally, some here will have noticed I’m a fan of PG Wodehouse. I think it’s no coincidence that his characters are forever reading popular mystery novels of this kind. Freddie and Bertie are no stranger to a good whodunit, and I think that may be part of what initiated this thread!)


Margery Allingham
Notable detective: Albert Campion
The Crime at Black Dudley (1929), Mystery Mile (1930), Police at the Funeral (1931), Sweet Danger (1933), Death of a Ghost (1934), The Case of the Late Pig (1937)

Agatha Christie
Notable detectives: Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot
The Murder of Roger Ackroyd (1926), The Murder at the Vicarage (1930), Murder on the Orient Express (1934), The ABC Murders (1935), Death In The Clouds (1935), And Then There Were None (1939), One, Two, Buckle My Shoe (1940), Five Little Pigs (1943), Crooked House (1949), A Murder is Announced (1950)

Ngaio Marsh
Notable detective: Supt. Roderick Alleyn
A Man Lay Dead (1934), Enter a Murderer (1935), Overture to Death (1939)

Dorothy L. Sayers
Notable detective: Lord Peter Wimsey
Whose Body? (1923), Strong Poison (1930), Have His Carcase (1932), Murder Must Advertise (1933), The Nine Tailors (1934), Gaudy Night (1935)

G.K. Chesterton
Notable detective: Father Brown
Short story collections, e.g.: The Incredulity of Father Brown (1926)

Cyril Hare
Notable detectives: Insp. Mallett, Francis Pettigrew
Tenant for Death (1937), Suicide Excepted (1939), Tragedy at Law (1942), When the Wind Blows (1949), An English Murder (1951)

Edmund Crispin
Notable detective: Gervase Fen
The Moving Toyshop (1946), Swan Song (1947), Buried for Pleasure (1948)

Cecil Street (writing as Miles Burton or John Rhode)
Notable detectives: Desmond Merrion (Burton); Dr Priestley (Rhode)
As Miles Burton: The Secret of High Eldersham (1930), The Shadow on the Cliff (1944)
As John Rhode: The Elusive Bullet (1931), The Claverton Affair (1933), The Corpse in the Car (1935)

Josephine Tey
Notable detective: Miss Pym, Insp. Alan Grant
Miss Pym Disposes (1946), The Franchise Affair (1948), The Daughter of Time (1951)

Georgette Heyer
Notable detective: Insp. Hannasyde
Why Shoot a Butler? (1933), Death in the Stocks (1935), Behold, Here’s Poison (1936), A Blunt Instrument (1938)

Freeman Wills Crofts
Notable detective: Insp. French
Inspector French's Greatest Case (1925), The Sea Mystery (1928), Crime at Guildford (1935)

Joanna Cannan
Notable detective: Det. Insp. Guy Northeast
No Walls of Jasper (1930), Frightened Angels (1936), They Rang Up the Police (1939), Death at The Dog (1941), Murder Included (1950)

J.J. Connington
Notable detective: Sir Clinton Driffeld
Tragedy at Ravensthorpe (1927), Murder in the Maze (1927), The Case with Nine Solutions (1928), The Sweepstakes Murders (1932), The Castleford Conundrum (1932)

Anthony Berkeley
Notable detective: Roger Sheringham
The Wychford Poisoning Case (1926), The Poisoned Chocolates Case (1929), Not to be Taken (1938)

Leo Bruce
Notable Detective: Sgt. Beef
Case for Three Detectives (1936), Case Without a Corpse (1937), Case with Four Clowns (1939), Case for Sergeant Beef (1947)

Philip MacDonald
Notable detective: Col. Anthony Gethryn
The Rasp (1925), The Maze (1932), Murder Gone Mad (1931), The Nursemaid Who Disappeared (1938)

H.C. Bailey
Notable detective: Dr. Reggie Fortune
Short stories of Mr Fortune; Black Land, White Land (1937), The Bishop's Crime (1940), Slippery Ann (1944)

Patricia Wentworth
Notable detective: Miss Silver
Grey Mask (1928), The Case is Closed (1937)

Michael Innes
Notable detective: Sir John Appleby
Death at the President’s Lodging (1936), The Daffodil Affair (1942), Appleby’s End (1945)

Herbert Adams
Notable detective: Roger Bennion
John Brand's Will (1933), The Chief Witness (1939), Crime Wave at Little Cornford (1948)

John Dickson Carr
(American, but resident in Britain many years and a key figure in the genre)
Notable detective: Dr Gideon Fell
The Hollow Man/The Three Coffins (1935), The Crooked Hinge (1938), The Problem of the Green Capsule (1939), He who Whispers (1946)

I've read all of Ngaio Marsh's mysteries, some of them multiple times. I particularly like the ones with theatrical settings. I suspect she liked those best herself.

All of Sayers's Wimsey mysteries, all of them multiple times. Unlike TJ, I love the ones with Harriet Vane the most.

Almost all of Patricia Wentworth's Miss Silver, although they did get a bit repetitive after a while. But I was going through a period of lethargy and depression and was thoroughly bored without a book in my hand, they were inexpensive easy reads, there were a lot of them, and they filled the time.

Some G. K. Chesterton, but didn't fall in love with them, so didn't read all or re-read any. Some Agatha Christie, ditto. Margery Allingham, ditto. John Dickson Carr, ditto (though I loved his handling of an 18th century setting in The Demoniacs—if I'd found more like that I undoubtedly would have read them). Josephine Tey, ditto (except I did love The Daughter of Time and reread it a couple of times).

I read all of Georgette Heyer's mysteries, I think, and reread a few of them. I didn't like them as much as her Regency and Georgian comedy-of-manners romances.

A few years ago I read a number by Cyril Hare and Freeman Wills Croft that were being re-issued.

Who did you forget? The only one that comes to mind at the moment is R. Austin Freeman, most notable character Dr. Thorndyke, of which I've read several. Maybe I will think of more given a little time.

 

[Pyan]

Not strictly within the original remit of the thread, but has anyone any thoughts about the continuation of the Lord Peter Wimsey stories by Jill Paton Walsh? The first one, Thrones, Dominations, was based on notes left by DLS that were never written up, but the rest continue the Wimsey story into the early 1950s.

Probably not up TJ's street, but I thought that they make a reasonable fist of portraying what might have happened to Peter, Harriet and their family through the Second World War and beyond, and one, The Attenbury Emeralds, tells the tale of an early case for PDBW alluded to in the biographical notes at the start of most of the Wimsey books.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Not strictly within the original remit of the thread, but has anyone any thoughts about the continuation of the Lord Peter Wimsey stories by Jill Paton Walsh?

Yes, I have. I read them all, and although they weren't nearly as good as the Sayers novels ... well, I read them all, so I must have enjoyed them, because I'm not the kind of person who tortures themselves by sticking around until the end of a series they aren't liking. (I liked Paton Walsh's own original mysteries with her own characters better than her Wimsey continuations, though.)

 

[Pyan]

Yes, I rather liked Imogen Quy. Not your typical sleuth.

 

[Randy M.]

Tangentially, just to note for anyone interested, the popularity of Golden Age British crime fiction inspired many American writers to try their hands at them -- see also, John Dickson Carr. Some are being republished by Otto Penzler's American Mystery Classics imprint, including titles by Ellery Queen, Phoebe Atwood Taylor, Vincent Starrett, Charlotte Armstrong and others. And the Library of Congress, probably inspired by the British Library's success, has gotten into the act as well, reissuing titles like The Conjure-Man Dies by Rudolph Fisher and The "Canary" Murder Case by S. S. Van Dine.

I find it a bit bemusing that so many titles, British and American, once considered throw-away entertainment that I used to see crowding drug store shelves in cheap mass market editions now showing up in bookstores in not-so-cheap trade paperbacks, complete with introductions and discussion questions.