How long should a book be?

[Wawona Girl]

Okay. Now my first book is 687 pages once formatted and my second book is 980 pages. I'm half way through my third book and it's another big bruiser. So what is a comfortable number of pages for a book?

 

[Brian G Turner]

A book should be as long as it needs to be.

However - it is really difficult to learn to be tough enough to butcher out all the unnecessary parts. Really long stories may be longer than they need to be, but it'll take third-party input to point that out.

 

[Wawona Girl]

A butcher, I'm not. I love where my stories take me and I love my characters. Everything in my stories is relevant. The printer however does not love how thick the spines of my books are. Well, he is just going to have to get over it.

 

[S Blake-Smy]

I suppose at the end of the day, as Brian said, " a book is as long as it needs to be". There are things that should be kept in mind as always, but even they depend on a number of variables; who are you writing for?

One thing I am always very wary of, is 'purple prose' (I also struggle with self doubt, so may see it where it is not). is what you write needed for the story or is it completely superfluous? have you over explained things? (don't assume the reader can't read between the lines -- they may want to have their imagination prodded rather than just be told everything, hints are great when done skillfully)

I suppose it all boils down to this; you may have written something that is so eloquent and beautiful that you can't believe that it is you who wrote it, but if it doesn't move the story along and has no purpose other than to be beautiful, it's going to be a waste of words because the reader may very well have put the book down.

Maybe in your case, 'butcher' is the wrong word... maybe you should think of it as the quest for elegance?

Edit: used a word incorrectly, But hey, I've learned a new word

 

[aThenian]

There is a place for long books. Something to bury yourself in...Shogun. The Lord of the Rings. Diana Gabaldon apparently printed her first book with tiny margins to try and kid her publisher it was shorter than it was, but her fans don't object to the page length. If you love a book, you don't want it to finish.

However, I've also written a long book so just could be I'm biased...

 

[Wawona Girl]

How many pages is your book?

 

[Extollager]

Okay. Now my first book is 687 pages once formatted and my second book is 980 pages. I'm half way through my third book and it's another big bruiser. So what is a comfortable number of pages for a book?

Okay--I don't know your work, so don't take this personally. But I for one have a prejudice against long new books. I grew up in the days when an Ace Science Fiction Special was around 160-220 pages, by masters like Le Guin and Simak, and when the classics in Ballantine's Fantasy series were almost all around 250 pages or less. (William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land and William Morris's The Well at the World's End were published in two volumes, but still at no more than 400-500 pages or so.) Very rare was the book that needed to be long--Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, Asimov's Foundation Trilogy. Thus it sure takes some convincing for me to believe that all these wallowing 600-page-per-volume sf "series" need to be anything like the length they are; or that, if they do, that that is the kind of fiction I want to read. It's not that I shy away from long books per se; I love LOTR, and, to venture out of genre fiction, love The Brothers Karamazov and War and Peace. But I'm apt to regard a big new book with suspicion. Since authors started writing with word processors and editors became acquisitions agents, books have been getting Too Long!

And (I hope I don't give offense) when you say you love your characters, that rings an alarm bell with me.

Sincere best wishes.

 

[Wawona Girl]

Okay--I don't know your work, so don't take this personally. But I for one have a prejudice against long new books. I grew up in the days when an Ace Science Fiction Special was around 160-220 pages, by masters like Le Guin and Simak, and when the classics in Ballantine's Fantasy series were almost all around 250 pages or less. (William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land and William Morris's The Well at the World's End were published in two volumes, but still at no more than 400-500 pages or so.) Very rare was the book that needed to be long--Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, Asimov's Foundation Trilogy. Thus it sure takes some convincing for me to believe that all these wallowing 600-page-per-volume sf "series" need to be anything like the length they are; or that, if they do, that that is the kind of fiction I want to read. It's not that I shy away from long books per se; I love LOTR, and, to venture out of genre fiction, love The Brothers Karamazov and War and Peace. But I'm apt to regard a big new book with suspicion. Since authors started writing with word processors and editors became acquisitions agents, books have been getting Too Long!

And (I hope I don't give offense) when you say you love your characters, that rings an alarm bell with me.

Sincere best wishes.

Hey, I welcome your thoughts. I take no offence.

But any person can write a story and give their characters names, before taking them on a wild roller coaster ride. But why read a book like that? Unless characters have depth, than the reader isn't going to give a toss whether they live or die. Men are excellent at writing at length about complex technology, I find. Women are excellent at writing about people. A bestseller happens when you get a fine balance between how men and women write. JK Rowling has it. So does Steven King and Clive Cussler. Although don't get me started on how the style of his writing has changed over the years due to co-writing with other authors. PLease......
I write space opera. It has everything thrown in the pot. And I mean everything. My characters are like family to me. They have survived books 1 & 2. Book 3 is seeing them soar to new horizons. Book 4 needs editing and book 5 is already started. I admit I take no prisoners. I am merely trying to compete with War and Peace.

 

[WaylanderToo]

A book should be as long as it needs to be.

as a reader this ^^^ One of the series I'm reading is (currently 10 novels long) ranges from 300 to over 500 pages. The problem is that an enjoyable novel that's 'only' 250 pages long can leave you feeling frustrated and wanting more - I guess that the flip of that is that a stolid, uninspiring book can make you just think "forget it, can't be bothered"

 

[S Blake-Smy]

It has everything thrown in the pot. And I mean everything. My characters are like family to me. They have survived books 1 & 2. Book 3 is seeing them soar to new horizons. Book 4 needs editing and book 5 is already started. I admit I take no prisoners. I am merely trying to compete with War and Peace.

To be honest if you are this many books into the series, and they are selling, then I wouldn't think you need to ask this question. You're obviously doing something right and the length of the books really isn't a problem.

Just carry on as you are, and enjoy the world you're creating

P.s do you have a link to them? are they in print or on amazon? I'm intrigued now

 

[Wawona Girl]

To be honest if you are this many books into the series, and they are selling, then I wouldn't think you need to ask this question. You're obviously doing something right and the length of the books really isn't a problem.

Just carry on as you are, and enjoy the world you're creating

P.s do you have a link to them? are they in print or on amazon? I'm intrigued now

The first two book are on Amazon kindle. I'm currently getting them into print and they are almost good to go. The series and the depth of the characters are taking me from one side of the United Colonies to the other. Happy days ahead.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

The first two book are on Amazon kindle. I'm currently getting them into print and they are almost good to go. The series and the depth of the characters are taking me from one side of the United Colonies to the other. Happy days ahead.

Just a warning - links aren't allowed until 100 posts, iirc.

Anyway, a lot of what you're putting down concerns me a lot (and, believe me, I write deep characters and know the room for growth that gives.)

Do you have beta readers? More importantly, have you been professionally edited? I dispute that it takes an opus-length to tell a character-based space opera (my entire trilogy sounds like it would fit into one of your books ). But I could be wrong.

But, on the one hand saying you want advice, and on the other dismissing that out of hand (I like my characters; the printer will have to live with it) makes me wonder if you really do want advice or just responses indicating it's cool to write very long books just cos you like doing so (and of course it is - whether it inhibits purchasers is another matter.)

Anyhow, I might be speaking out of turn. I'm forthright, if nothing else.

 

[S Blake-Smy]

Just a warning - links aren't allowed until 100 posts, iirc.

Oops, my bad. Apologies, I'll have another look at forum rules.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

My writing has many faults. The one thing I've never been accused of is characters who lack depth. It doesn't have to take a huge amount of words.

If you've had beta readers and editors at it then maybe it does need to be that long. In which case the book is as long as the book is.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Oops, my bad. Apologies, I'll have another look at forum rules.

Don't worry - it's easy to miss! (It's to stop getting loads of people turning up to promote their book and run.)

 

[zaltys13]

This is really difficult, looking at Joe Abercrombie's twitter feed recently I came across this little gem: "The pen may be mightier than the sword, but the scissors are mightier yet. If in doubt, cut it."

I couldn't agree more, and I think most editors would feel the same.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

This is really difficult, looking at Joe Abercrombie's twitter feed recently I came across this little gem: "The pen may be mightier than the sword, but the scissors are mightier yet. If in doubt, cut it."

I couldn't agree more, and I think most editors would feel the same.

Actually, most of my editors add to my word count. But I am a very, very lean writer and need to be told when I need more. The bottom line - use an editor!

 

[Dulahan]

From the stand point of a casual reader, books clocking in at 600 or 700 pages are intimidating. Simply, people don't have as much time as they used to to sit and take in a massive book. I suppose, however, if you are this far into your series then you have some dedicated readers and are beyond the need for brevity.

I can say that I second @Brian Turner "it'll take third-party input to point that out." comment. I have written a number of articles and reviews on different topics -- I am from New Jersey and we like to talk -- with me being 'long winded' is an understatement. I have threatened violence on third-parties and editors who cut down my work, but it is what it is and sometimes a second pair of eyes see's what you're blind to.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Hi wawona G.
I myself had the same depressing question regarding book length when I first joined the site.

You might like to enjoy the insight/advice offered to myself in the thread from those dim and dismal times

I've just visited my local Borders book shop and found time to mouch about the science fiction fantasy section.

I found at least three titles written by people I'd never heard -suggesting new writers, that were well over 1000 pages.

I had trouble even picking them up never mind holding them to read.

My question is this:-

Is this a new expected normal length for a first book?

If it is, my 60000 words or so is looking pretty pathetic. At this rate I'll still be writing as they inject the embalming fluid. I'll have to pass it on to my sons, a kind of 'inheritance tract' that may come to print three or four generations from now.

 

[Wawona Girl]

Just a warning - links aren't allowed until 100 posts, iirc.

Anyway, a lot of what you're putting down concerns me a lot (and, believe me, I write deep characters and know the room for growth that gives.)

Do you have beta readers? More importantly, have you been professionally edited? I dispute that it takes an opus-length to tell a character-based space opera (my entire trilogy sounds like it would fit into one of your books ). But I could be wrong.

But, on the one hand saying you want advice, and on the other dismissing that out of hand (I like my characters; the printer will have to live with it) makes me wonder if you really do want advice or just responses indicating it's cool to write very long books just cos you like doing so (and of course it is - whether it inhibits purchasers is another matter.)

Anyhow, I might be speaking out of turn. I'm forthright, if nothing else.

Advice is always welcome, Jo. I don't suggest at all that it is cool to write long books. But if writers like editors to cut and slash their precious work to pieces, that is down to them. I believe that everything I put in my books is relevant to the story and the enjoyment of the reader. I love advice and respect what people have to say. But I don't necessary have to take it on board. If you suspect by my original question that I doubt myself as a writer, than you are entirely wrong. I love reading thick sci-fi books and I like to think there are other readers out there like me.