Westworld
- Thread starter Cli-Fi
- Start date
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
There's no way any mortal could beat him in a fair one-vs-one battle without firearms. Even then the chances are that you'll leave the fight with a few bits missing. So many masters tried. None won. And he beat them often by using the wooden kendo sword or at least that's what the legends say about him. If he could get outside the Park I don't think he would do very well in the world that's riding on top of the technological singularity. He would have to learn new skills to be able to cope in that world.
Judderman
The Iceman cometh
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2010
- Messages
- 1,619
A great episode again overall. The Maeve story is very good. Also interesting that The Man in Black's daughter said she knew his previous good guy persona was just an act.
Hopefully the story with Arnold etc wont get too convoluted, as can happen with that kind in sci-fi.
Westworld was renewed for season 3 earlier this year. I imaging the show will have to change to something else to keep it going. Only so long they can knock around the "parks" considering all the civilians that went there.
Hopefully the story with Arnold etc wont get too convoluted, as can happen with that kind in sci-fi.
Westworld was renewed for season 3 earlier this year. I imaging the show will have to change to something else to keep it going. Only so long they can knock around the "parks" considering all the civilians that went there.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
I'm slightly surprised that the firm calls the immortality-through-androids as The Project. Yet, the people, who supposedly came looking after the droid revolution are pretty clueless about everything that Ford managed to do, while he still retained his soul in the meatbody. For his love he built so many bodies. So many replacements for him to live over thousand years, if he'd so chosen after the robots went bonkers.
It's strange to think the liberation and Ford's death was just a fanfare for all things that came after. The biggest thing being the immortality aspect. After that Bernard is the biggest marvel. A bigger thing than Delores. To my mind, even though she's the antagonist leader, she's just a tool in Ford's grand plan. The virtual world he created is much bigger thing than the Parks and their hosts, because in that way Ford reached immortality by living inside the machine. In fact if the Hosts win they could keep Ford alive forever ... in theory.
The reason why I say Bernard is the biggest thing is because he's much more then flesh, blood and chrome inside his android body. He's able to reason like a human. At the end, he's also the control unit for Ford's machine and if the company would understand his importance, they could probably gain the upper hand in the droid revolution.
Maybe the craziest thing that the WestWorld makes me to think is the world of Bioshock Infinite, and how similarly that world ended up like the Parks. In the BI the whole revolution was as bloody as you see in this series. It mostly wiped out the human populace, leaving only behind the advanced species and one destined to the ascension. Maybe the reason why I'm bringing it up is because the stories are so similar. Only the WestWorld is much more complicated, because it has more moving parts through the actors.
What I don't understand is how the Man in Black ended being the devil? Was it because he saw that the immortality project he was leading was a failure rather than the stuff Ford hid inside Bernard? MiB took six shots and still, he didn't die, despite being old and vulnerable. What keeps him alive? It is almost as if he has a host body.
After the humans are gone what the Hosts will do with their freedom, because at the moment, with the weapons that humans brought in the park, they are pretty much useless against the androids. We don't even know does the humanity posses advanced stuff strong enough to vaporize the liberated hosts from the existence outside the nukes. What would you suggest?
It's strange to think the liberation and Ford's death was just a fanfare for all things that came after. The biggest thing being the immortality aspect. After that Bernard is the biggest marvel. A bigger thing than Delores. To my mind, even though she's the antagonist leader, she's just a tool in Ford's grand plan. The virtual world he created is much bigger thing than the Parks and their hosts, because in that way Ford reached immortality by living inside the machine. In fact if the Hosts win they could keep Ford alive forever ... in theory.
The reason why I say Bernard is the biggest thing is because he's much more then flesh, blood and chrome inside his android body. He's able to reason like a human. At the end, he's also the control unit for Ford's machine and if the company would understand his importance, they could probably gain the upper hand in the droid revolution.
Maybe the craziest thing that the WestWorld makes me to think is the world of Bioshock Infinite, and how similarly that world ended up like the Parks. In the BI the whole revolution was as bloody as you see in this series. It mostly wiped out the human populace, leaving only behind the advanced species and one destined to the ascension. Maybe the reason why I'm bringing it up is because the stories are so similar. Only the WestWorld is much more complicated, because it has more moving parts through the actors.
What I don't understand is how the Man in Black ended being the devil? Was it because he saw that the immortality project he was leading was a failure rather than the stuff Ford hid inside Bernard? MiB took six shots and still, he didn't die, despite being old and vulnerable. What keeps him alive? It is almost as if he has a host body.
After the humans are gone what the Hosts will do with their freedom, because at the moment, with the weapons that humans brought in the park, they are pretty much useless against the androids. We don't even know does the humanity posses advanced stuff strong enough to vaporize the liberated hosts from the existence outside the nukes. What would you suggest?
Jeffbert
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2011
- Messages
- 2,116
I just watched e 1 & 2. I find the series at this point, seems to focus on the one 'host' who awakened on the technicians' table, found herself in an alien environment, and freaked out!
Granted, there is much more going on, but, to me, this was most important.
So, unlike the film, this WW so far appears to focus on the horror inflicted upon these 'hosts,' rather than the guests, when things go wrong.
So, Humans, episode 1 was
14 June 2015(UK)
28 June 2015 (U.S.)
while WW's was
October 2, 2016
Well over a year between the 1st episodes, but is there really any influence of the one, upon the other? Humans seems to have the perspective of the 'Synths' for the most part. I know it is unreasonable to begin comparing just the 1st 2 episodes of WW to 2 entire seasons of H.
Another thing I noticed, was the pistol wielded by the man in black. The LeMat Revolver, is a rather strange pistol, at least compared to the Colt 45.
Unlike the Colt, or just about anything I have ever seen, The LeMat Revolver has a nine shot cylinder; moreover, it has a larger bore center barrel, which acts as a short-range shotgun.
I saw this, and had to click the 'go back ten seconds' button on the Prime viewer. I assumed it was made-up for the series, but no!
So, I checked Wikipedia, and read that the hammer, has a unique part, that when clicked into the other position, makes it fire the center load. Ouch! Ten shots before reloading! Man in black using it, above.
Apparently programmed to believe herself living around the time of the civil war, she would obviously have no idea how to interpret her surroundings, and why is she and more than a few others, naked?
So, unlike the film, this WW so far appears to focus on the horror inflicted upon these 'hosts,' rather than the guests, when things go wrong.
So, Humans, episode 1 was
14 June 2015(UK)
28 June 2015 (U.S.)
while WW's was
October 2, 2016
Well over a year between the 1st episodes, but is there really any influence of the one, upon the other? Humans seems to have the perspective of the 'Synths' for the most part. I know it is unreasonable to begin comparing just the 1st 2 episodes of WW to 2 entire seasons of H.
Another thing I noticed, was the pistol wielded by the man in black. The LeMat Revolver, is a rather strange pistol, at least compared to the Colt 45.
Unlike the Colt, or just about anything I have ever seen, The LeMat Revolver has a nine shot cylinder; moreover, it has a larger bore center barrel, which acts as a short-range shotgun.
I saw this, and had to click the 'go back ten seconds' button on the Prime viewer. I assumed it was made-up for the series, but no!
So, I checked Wikipedia, and read that the hammer, has a unique part, that when clicked into the other position, makes it fire the center load. Ouch! Ten shots before reloading! Man in black using it, above.
2.07 Les Écorchés
Digital Ford's big reveal to Bernard that his creations are intended to be immortal vessels for human consciousness, not successors to Humanity, didn't seem all that big. After all, they are called "hosts."
I question Ford's insinuation that the massive slaughter of hosts and humans that has been filling the season is part of his master plan. Delores and the rest of the sentient hosts would strongly disagree.
Patterning the androids' behavior after the data gleaned from the guests explains why the hosts are no less bloodthirsty and merciless than the humans. I was a little unhappy that Dolores didn't get the opportunity to slice and dice Charlotte.
I guess that speaks to my human nature.
/SPOILER]
I question Ford's insinuation that the massive slaughter of hosts and humans that has been filling the season is part of his master plan. Delores and the rest of the sentient hosts would strongly disagree.
Patterning the androids' behavior after the data gleaned from the guests explains why the hosts are no less bloodthirsty and merciless than the humans. I was a little unhappy that Dolores didn't get the opportunity to slice and dice Charlotte.
I guess that speaks to my human nature.
/SPOILER]
Jeffbert
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2011
- Messages
- 2,116
sO, i JUST WATCHED S1, E6, & have a few comments:
As I understand it, these robots or hosts as they call them, are programmed to have the personalities of people of the mid to late 19th century U.S. Western States or territories. As such, they must behave in proper fashion. I assume they must have no knowledge of technology beyond telegraph, locomotive, and such.
Thus:
As I understand it, these robots or hosts as they call them, are programmed to have the personalities of people of the mid to late 19th century U.S. Western States or territories. As such, they must behave in proper fashion. I assume they must have no knowledge of technology beyond telegraph, locomotive, and such.
Thus:
when the woman awakens in character and finds herself naked, in a place that has cannot be compared to anything she has ever seens, etc., & seeing apparently dead bodies here and there, would her 'natural' response be to utterly freak out? Given, her creators did not prepare her for this, what should she 'think'? Aside from the unfamiliar, she might attempt to cover her body, or at least certain parts.
When the guy shows here the tablet that shows her thought processes as she speaks, what should be the reaction? Somebody said something about advanced technology being perceived as magic. What should be the response? Again, given that they did not prepare a specific response to what was not supposed to happen.
seems to me, she might just go nuts, or malfunction. These guys are witches!
When the guy shows here the tablet that shows her thought processes as she speaks, what should be the reaction? Somebody said something about advanced technology being perceived as magic. What should be the response? Again, given that they did not prepare a specific response to what was not supposed to happen.
seems to me, she might just go nuts, or malfunction. These guys are witches!
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
There is no death for the devil as he is cursed for eternity to suffer the consequencies of his actions. I cannot believe that Man in Black managed to drag himself to the river with the state his was in afer they riddled him full of bullets. A normal man would died from those wounds on blood loss. Not him, hence I'm calling him the devil.
If William could have kept Dolores alive and with him for rest of his life, maybe nothing would have ever happened in the WestWorld. At the end of the first season the game back his obsession and therefore everyone had to go, because he found there was a hidden part in the game. I don't think he ever realised it was going to take his whole life to be in the park and never reach the grand conclusion, as the Maze was a trigger.
Think it as one those you can scan on your mobile device and it links you to a website or some other thing. QR itself is a code and for the hosts, since Ford was the creator, the picture of the Maze triggered the change in certain hosts. Maybe MiB noticed that, but he never figured out that whole thing was going to lead to a robot revolution.
The hidden valley. Well, now we know that they built the park on top of a technological marvel. I'm still strongly believe it's a space vessel and the humans were the passengers. Although it could as well be a massive satellite, since the park services were offered for rich clients. To people who had seen everything and no experience was new.
Will Williams daughter be able to bright the Man in Black back and put him a front of the corporate court to answer for deaths and loss of property? Is Maeve's daughter going to be trojan horse?
If William could have kept Dolores alive and with him for rest of his life, maybe nothing would have ever happened in the WestWorld. At the end of the first season the game back his obsession and therefore everyone had to go, because he found there was a hidden part in the game. I don't think he ever realised it was going to take his whole life to be in the park and never reach the grand conclusion, as the Maze was a trigger.
Think it as one those you can scan on your mobile device and it links you to a website or some other thing. QR itself is a code and for the hosts, since Ford was the creator, the picture of the Maze triggered the change in certain hosts. Maybe MiB noticed that, but he never figured out that whole thing was going to lead to a robot revolution.
The hidden valley. Well, now we know that they built the park on top of a technological marvel. I'm still strongly believe it's a space vessel and the humans were the passengers. Although it could as well be a massive satellite, since the park services were offered for rich clients. To people who had seen everything and no experience was new.
Will Williams daughter be able to bright the Man in Black back and put him a front of the corporate court to answer for deaths and loss of property? Is Maeve's daughter going to be trojan horse?
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
Thing that might be fleeting is that Maeve has already moved far further than Dolores. Her host has evolved beyond the other ones and she has already moved into Ford's cyberspace and it is very likely that at some point she is going to challenge the virtual Ford as an equal AI. In other words she's a rogue AI and she was locked inside her body for a long time. The transgression beyond the original host has been the unthinkable act or as Jeff GoldBlum said in the Jurassic Park: "The nature always finds a way...(to evolve beyond normal boundaries)"
I don't still think it is as a way for them to reproduce. Even Ford haven't thought about that detail in his plan. Did you notice that the title sequence had changed and it now features a mother with a child, both in the white body?
I don't still think it is as a way for them to reproduce. Even Ford haven't thought about that detail in his plan. Did you notice that the title sequence had changed and it now features a mother with a child, both in the white body?
Mr Orange
Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb...
phew, so finally caught up. well almost. to ep 07 at least. this season has been a whirlwind. at first i was disappointed at the loss off the old west narratives and fictions, but then as the post-apocalyptic chaos spread i got into it. the timelines screwed with me a bit too - at times i struggled to figure out when Bernard was in his various memories. I think i have it sorted now though.
a few things that are irking me:
a few things that are irking me:
- in ep07 the man in black and lawrence suddnely turned up in Maeve's scene as if they had been chasing her all along. did i miss something? because that really jarred and i couldn't figure out where that had come from.
- i thought abernathy had all the data from the project stuffed into his control unit, but then they started talking about him having some kind of coding key instead?
- so does the fact that the hosts have destroyed the cradle mean that the abernathy's control unit is now the only place that all the info (and the hosts back up) exists? and where is Ford now - has he piggybacked out of the cradle in Bernard's control unit?
- and how rubbish are those mercenaries? getting whupped by a bunch of cowboys with pistols and rifles?
- the man in black must be a host, surely... otherwise he's gotta be dead. he's too old to survive something like that. i mean, how ragged did he look after he got plugged. i can see william using the project to slip himself into a host. it would also tie in a little better with the original man in black from the movie.
- i thought abernathy had all the data from the project stuffed into his control unit, but then they started talking about him having some kind of coding key instead?
- so does the fact that the hosts have destroyed the cradle mean that the abernathy's control unit is now the only place that all the info (and the hosts back up) exists? and where is Ford now - has he piggybacked out of the cradle in Bernard's control unit?
- and how rubbish are those mercenaries? getting whupped by a bunch of cowboys with pistols and rifles?
- the man in black must be a host, surely... otherwise he's gotta be dead. he's too old to survive something like that. i mean, how ragged did he look after he got plugged. i can see william using the project to slip himself into a host. it would also tie in a little better with the original man in black from the movie.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
Season 1. Near the end they reveal Maeve's past and her connection to the Man in Black. When he first time came in as a guest, he had the adventure, and later on as he waited for the immortality project to solve itself, he started to experiment. One of the people he frequently visited was Maeve and all that evil he spread around is now layered deep into Maeve's memories. To her, that particular murder, where she dies with the child is a PTSD.
I believe Bernard is the control unit. He has several replacement parts that Ford hid for his grand plan. And all of them, have that ball thing inside their heads. So, maybe you could say there's multiple control units, but they cannot all be on at the same time?
Yes. I believe that is the case. But what Maeve and Dolores are then?
Mr Orange
Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb...
@ctg
i thought the Man in Black only visited Maeve once - after his wife died and he wanted to see if he really was the monster his daughter said he was. so he sought out a settler woman and murdered here and her daughter. i think he told someone (Teddy?) this at some point in S01. so i'm still not sure why he ended up there again in S02Ep07.
i thought the Man in Black only visited Maeve once - after his wife died and he wanted to see if he really was the monster his daughter said he was. so he sought out a settler woman and murdered here and her daughter. i think he told someone (Teddy?) this at some point in S01. so i'm still not sure why he ended up there again in S02Ep07.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
It was a reoccuring thing. Like a junkie going to a dealer to get a fix. Repeat and Rinse.
Mr Orange
Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb...
so.... Ep08.... was that just a waste of time?
don't get me wrong, i really enjoyed the story behind the episode, but i came away from it wondering how the ep progressed the storyline. and i am kinda disappointed they didn't weave that story into the first season. i would have loved that to be in there over more episodes - really would have messed with the timeline even more.
also really hoping that sizemore grows some stones and gets maeve out of her predicament
don't get me wrong, i really enjoyed the story behind the episode, but i came away from it wondering how the ep progressed the storyline. and i am kinda disappointed they didn't weave that story into the first season. i would have loved that to be in there over more episodes - really would have messed with the timeline even more.
also really hoping that sizemore grows some stones and gets maeve out of her predicament
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
Was it? Did you lean about the maze code somewhere else? Or the fact that MiB survived? Sure it was slow, but not waste of time.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
"The Stain"
It is interesting that William speaks about the "other worlds" he has conquered over his lifetime. The people admitted that they keep forgetting that he came from humble roots and achieve richness beyond the norm. But we never really get to learn what other things he did outside the Park. All we learn that he was always busy and he ignored his daughter as its often the case with the businessmen.
I don't know what really happens to us as we grow older but, for some reason we seem to keep repeating the same cycle, doing exactly the same pattern as what our forefathers did to us. There is never enough of time for the offspring even though if there was intention. It's just that at the end does it really count that we intended but never could commit to the actual act of being father, not talking being a parent.
Well, I think the blessing is in disguise and somewhat ironic that Men in Blackwas rescued by his daughter, while the love of his life is now known in the park as The Death Bringer. Dolores didn't even blink when the Natives called her that and asked her to not venture into the Valley of Beyond. They said that the Immortality is for the humans only. Only we never guessed that William scanned all the visitors, who entered into the Park, for the immortality project.
Then again, as the apple never falls far from the tree, it was a little surprise to find William's offspring is very much like his father. Maybe she inherited the evil ruthlessness through the genes, even if she's showing mercy to the man who doesn't deserve it. After all, he is the devil in this story and his greatest mistake was to become the prince of "lies," as Emily called him out.
So, while he was put in that role, it was a brilliant move to make Ford the god. In that context William's Park is suffering his wrath, while he's doomed to walk the earth without a love. All cloaked in the darkness of his own creation. If there hadn't been a stain, maybe the Park and the immortality project could have turned differently. What would it have been in that case?
I don't know what really happens to us as we grow older but, for some reason we seem to keep repeating the same cycle, doing exactly the same pattern as what our forefathers did to us. There is never enough of time for the offspring even though if there was intention. It's just that at the end does it really count that we intended but never could commit to the actual act of being father, not talking being a parent.
Well, I think the blessing is in disguise and somewhat ironic that Men in Blackwas rescued by his daughter, while the love of his life is now known in the park as The Death Bringer. Dolores didn't even blink when the Natives called her that and asked her to not venture into the Valley of Beyond. They said that the Immortality is for the humans only. Only we never guessed that William scanned all the visitors, who entered into the Park, for the immortality project.
Then again, as the apple never falls far from the tree, it was a little surprise to find William's offspring is very much like his father. Maybe she inherited the evil ruthlessness through the genes, even if she's showing mercy to the man who doesn't deserve it. After all, he is the devil in this story and his greatest mistake was to become the prince of "lies," as Emily called him out.
So, while he was put in that role, it was a brilliant move to make Ford the god. In that context William's Park is suffering his wrath, while he's doomed to walk the earth without a love. All cloaked in the darkness of his own creation. If there hadn't been a stain, maybe the Park and the immortality project could have turned differently. What would it have been in that case?
I was surprised that:
- Dolores lacked sufficient control over Teddy to prevent his suicide (or was she giving him free will?)
- Bernard had the ability delete Ford from his program
- Sela Ward appeared as William's wife
- William has a dark and twisted real life fueled by his park history, which is directly responsible for the deaths of his wife and only child (bad hiding place for that profile)
- Maeve seems likely to survive (thanks to Ford's fatherhood feelings)
- William didn't pull the trigger when he had his gun pointed at his guilt-ridden head
- William may be a host
| Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Westworld (1973); critiques & such | General Film Discussion | 4 | |
|
Westworld... | General TV Discussion | 31 | |
|
Arnie to make Westworld! | General Film Discussion | 12 | |
|
Westworld (1973) | General Film Discussion | 7 |