Is Fantasy stuck in the mud?

Personally... I don't read modern fantasy for exactly the reason that @Stewart Hotston is asking about fantasy being stuck. I feel that everytime I look at the lists of new books being published and I am like "Meh, seen that five years ago". It is all stupid. There is little or no substance to the plots let alone idea that will make me think at all, which is something I like in my fantasy.

So I read the old stuff. I know that there is a thought out there that older fantasy is to samey but truth be told if you read the good stuff, even if they have cliques in them there is at least still something worth taking away from it.
 
If you really want some fantasy that will make you think about what it means to be human, what humanity needs to be, why we are, what we are, who we are and many other topics of thought try Haruki Murakami's novels. They are brilliant.
 
Surely the problem, if that is how we look at it, is that Fantasy is like any other genre such as crime, horror, drama etc. You get some brilliant stories, some good ones and plenty of samey ones. As a few of the posters have pointed out it is about seeking out the needles in the haystacks. It is also a matter of taste and time. For example Station Eleven got two mentions as a good story. Apart from a few memorable scenes in it I found the book immensely dull and pretty damned implausible. Give me The Road any day of the week. But that is taste.

City of Stairs I initially read a while back and found it as dull as dishwater. I returned to it a few months back and thoroughly enjoyed it. What was difference? Not too sure maybe just time and place suited for the second read through.
 
Elventine said:
If you really want some fantasy that will make you think about what it means to be human, what humanity needs to be, why we are, what we are, who we are and many other topics of thought try Haruki Murakami's novels. They are brilliant.
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He is probably my favourite living author. I particularly love the Wind-up Bird Chronicle - the only book ever to make me experience a cold sweat/feel that I was going to pass out on the tube because of a particularly unexpected and gruesome passage about two thirds of the way through.
 
svalbard said:
Surely the problem, if that is how we look at it, is that Fantasy is like any other genre such as crime, horror, drama etc. You get some brilliant stories, some good ones and plenty of samey ones. As a few of the posters have pointed out it is about seeking out the needles in the haystacks. It is also a matter of taste and time. For example Station Eleven got two mentions as a good story. Apart from a few memorable scenes in it I found the book immensely dull and pretty damned implausible. Give me The Road any day of the week. But that is taste.

City of Stairs I initially read a while back and found it as dull as dishwater. I returned to it a few months back and thoroughly enjoyed it. What was difference? Not too sure maybe just time and place suited for the second read through.
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Exactly.

The only limitations to a genre, is the ones we as readers, impose upon it.
 
svalbard said:
Surely the problem, if that is how we look at it, is that Fantasy is like any other genre such as crime, horror, drama etc. You get some brilliant stories, some good ones and plenty of samey ones. As a few of the posters have pointed out it is about seeking out the needles in the haystacks. It is also a matter of taste and time. For example Station Eleven got two mentions as a good story. Apart from a few memorable scenes in it I found the book immensely dull and pretty damned implausible. Give me The Road any day of the week. But that is taste.

City of Stairs I initially read a while back and found it as dull as dishwater. I returned to it a few months back and thoroughly enjoyed it. What was difference? Not too sure maybe just time and place suited for the second read through.
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I have to agree with you. I often find that the books I think are wonderful are sadly looked upon as the bane of all bookness because they had a Hero... *gasp* and wizards! *clutches hart in mock shock* and are deemed dull and samey. But I don't think so. I think of the topics that are often underlying the plain wrapping then I see entirely different book.

Stewart Hotston said:
He is probably my favourite living author. I particularly love the Wind-up Bird Chronicle - the only book ever to make me experience a cold sweat/feel that I was going to pass out on the tube because of a particularly unexpected and gruesome passage about two thirds of the way through.
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He is brilliant.. I have to say that my favorite novel of his is a Wild Sheep Chase. That book just had a sense of real unrealism that made you float through the world right until the end when it got you with a one two surprise and it was brilliant!
 
I'd never heard of Haruki Murakami, but he sounds great @Stewart Hotston and @Elventine. I found his first two books in a double volume on kindle though and just downloaded, so thanks for the recommendation.(y)

Some of the best novels I've discovered have been from the stickied monthly "What have you been reading" thread in General Book Discussion. I've discovered lots of authors and novels that would have otherwise passed me by. I'm terrible at remembering who recommended them but grateful nonetheless.
 
Gonk the Insane said:
Sandman Slim by Richard Kadrey:
Ultra-violent, ultra-sweary Urban Fantasy. If Motorhead were a book, this is the book they'd be.
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SOLD!!! If Motorhead were a book... brilliant (as an aside I've been meaning to pick this up some time)

thaddeus6th said:
Lots of good suggestions. Not sure I've seen the Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. Very enjoyable six book series.

I tend not to review fiction much any more, but did back when I read these. Five years ago. Blimey.

Anyway, here's the review of the first one [can see the rest by clicking the Codex Alera tag at the end]: Thaddeus the Sixth: Review: The Furies of Calderon (Codex Alera 1), by Jim Butcher
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Another 'like' for the Codex Alert.

Surprised that no one has mentioned David Gemmell's yet. I guess you could call it 'realistic fantasy'.

In a more light-hearted vein you could always try Robert Asperin's MYTHinc series or Dragons McCardle series (yes they're fluff, but fluff is needed sometimes), he also wrote Thieves World but I've not tried yet so am unable to comment
 
In some ways, yes, fantasy is stuck in the mud but no more than any other genre to be honest. For example, young adult fiction usually has a love triangle with a heaping side of teen angst thrown in, crime fiction has a crime, then clues, and a twist, and dystopian, a subset of science fiction, usually involves a normal person rising up a totalitarian regime.

I don't necessarily think following a formula is bad if you do it well and put your own unique spin on it. And of course, there are writers in all genres who actively try to break the formula. Neil Gaiman, China Mieville, and NK Jemisin are a few modern fantasy writers who do that.
 
As a modern variation on sword and sorcery fantasy I thought Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains was a good read, not picked up the following two books yet but I will eventually.
 
Some day, we'l get throwback heroic fantasy. :)
 
Well if you have anything to do about it Baylor you will be at the centre of it.
 
For me the best example of an active fantasy writer that proves the genre can stay fresh and open for new ideas is Brandon Sanderson. I particularly enjoy his scientific approach towards writing magic, creating a well balanced system of laws and consequences governing his settings in a manner that would normally suit a science-fiction book.

While I never particularly enjoyed classic fantasy novels, outside maybe from the first Malazan and the Wheel of Time (which Sanderson actually finished), I really admire his style.
 
DrStrangelove said:
For me the best example of an active fantasy writer that proves the genre can stay fresh and open for new ideas is Brandon Sanderson. I particularly enjoy his scientific approach towards writing magic, creating a well balanced system of laws and consequences governing his settings in a manner that would normally suit a science-fiction book.

While I never particularly enjoyed classic fantasy novels, outside maybe from the first Malazan and the Wheel of Time (which Sanderson actually finished), I really admire his style.
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Have you ever read Karl Edward Wagner Kane the Mystic swordsman series ?:)
 
BAYLOR said:
Have you ever read Karl Edward Wagner Kane the Mystic swordsman series ?:)
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Seeing the title I had the immediate association with Legacy of Kain series, and I see I wasn't that far in my judgment - the internet claims that the main character is also heavily inspired by Elric of Melniboné.

I will most certainly check it out in the near future.
 
DrStrangelove said:
Seeing the title I had the immediate association with Legacy of Kain series, and I see I wasn't that far in my judgment - the internet claims that the main character is also heavily inspired by Elric of Melniboné.

I will most certainly check it out in the near future.
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Kane is an immortal and, not a traditional hero, he more of antihero type character. He not a nice person at all but , he an interesting character. This is a dark fantasy series comprised of 5 books
1. Bloodstone
2. Darkness Weaves
3. Dark Crusade
4. Death Angels Shadow
5. Night Winds

The series has both gothic and lovocratainj elements . Thought Bloodstone is listed as book 2 , Its book you should start with. It interesting that you mention Elric of Melnibone . The last Kane story that wager wrote A Gothic Touch It can be found in the Anthology Elric Tales of the White Wolf In this story Kane meet Elric of Melinibone and Moon Glum. it seem he has need of Stormbringer

Wagner also wrote Conan the road Of Kings an excellent Conan pastiche and Bran Mak Morn The Legion from the Shadow. A pastiche of another Howard character Bran man Morn and this too is excellent book

Killer which he court with David drake
In a Lonely Place is an anthology of his best horror stories
Echos of Valor I, II and III. in this trolley anthology Wager presents heroic fantasy stories well known and less known . Echos of Valor III in particular contain s 3 excellent stories by a man named Nictzen Dyhalis . who is very little known given that he only wrote 11 fantasy stories in all.

Unrelated but you find this of interest.

The Star Rover by Jack London This book is his only fantasy novel , It largely unknown aan unlike all his other novels . Ks about straitjacketed DeathRow in mate who discover via transcendental mediation that he can not only lever his body but can astral project himself into his past lives at will. This is book. epic in scope scale , takes you across time ,space and history . Its great book and can be found online via Project Gutenberg .:)
 
Resurrecting an old post here but...

Stewart Hotston said:
When people talk about diversity though I tend to experience this as there simply being people with different skins or sexes but they tend to have exactly the same preoccupations as all the other characters, which are generally filtered through the dominant cultural starting point. By that I don't mean it's specifically racist (which it isn't) nor sexist (again, it's not) it just seems to miss the fact that peoples from other cultures and backgrounds really don't necessarily think like I do. I always run a Franz Fanon test - namely do all the characters namely think about the world in the same way? If they do then it's failed to actually get the point of diversity. (Franz Fanon was a French/Algerian writer who wrote the 'Wretched of the Earth' in response to the Algerian revolution and made the profound point that other people actually don't want to be like us and part of their rebellion is a rejection of everything we stand for not simply the every day injustices they suffered at their colonial rulers' hands.)
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Publishers seem to be getting behind this over the last few years. There's a whole raft of African fantasy or Afrofuturism that was bubbling under the surface for a long time and brought to the mainstream by Black Panther.

Books by Tomi Adeyami, Reni K Amayo, Evan Winters, Antoine Bandele and so on.
 
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