7.01: The Walking Dead - The Day Will Come When You Won't Play

[Dave]

I'm not sure if I agree with you. I'll have to think on it and I'm too tired now. I see your point that it is now a feudal system with Neegan as the Lord and everyone else no better than serfs, but they aren't serfs in the same way as people were then. They are educated, used to their freedom, and they have no respect for him, only a fear of him. The best leaders are charismatic and inspire people to follow them. They are generous, just and fair. You can only get by for so long by being as brutal and as hated as Neegan. At some point a lieutenant will rise up and overthrow him (maybe RicK) and he will forever have to be watchful of that. I see a downward spiral that won't stop until they have reached the bottom. The "Tower Houses" mentioned seems a very likely scenario.

 

[S Blake-Smy]

I agree, I think our violence comes mostly from fear though... we are inherently fearful, so we attack before we can be attacked; and with extreme prejudice -- just to be sure. ;-)

 

[Droflet]

I see Neegan as an insane pragmatist. He's a true leader who sets absolutely uncompromising standards. This is his way of maintaining control. Quite logical in this insane world. Yet it still makes him a superb villan who makes the Governor look like a choir boy. Looking forward to his grisly death.

 

[Cli-Fi]

The thing is, if you forget about the walkers then what you really have is a real world situation from a thousand years ago (as an arbitrary number). the levels of technology meant that people were using some pretty makeshift weaponry, and they were for the most part brutal about their 'resource collecting'.
Really, our humanity is a luxury; one that in circumstances such as those portrayed in the series people generally don't have. might is right, and when it comes to limited resources only survival of your immediate tribe can be realistically planned for.

In reality 'civilistaion' is a mask we wear, and it is one that is only loosely attached.

I do sympathise with your line of thought, I don't think I could survive in a world like this -- walkers or not -- but I wouldn't count out the survival instinct, and the human ability to desensitise with dramatic spead when faced with a choice between 'them or me'. It really could just come down to a matter of 'why you, and not me? I'll fight you for it!'.

This is interesting because last season we were led to believe that everything was going to end up OK. They were, as Negan said going to end up happily ever after. At least it felt that way. Especially when people started looking for stuff to do and/or to better their lives. Abraham wanted to make a family, Eugene wanted to make bullets. Everybody was looking for ways to move on from the "resource collecting," and actually live!

NOT ANYMORE!! BWAHAHAHAHAH

 

[Cli-Fi]

I agree. Although I can say they flashed his death at Dwayne's hands.

Norman talked about his character's fate and said: The Walking Dead: Norman Reedus Says Daryl Dixon Is "A Prisoner Of War"

Which we all understand, because he was filming his own bike show, plus he's been in couple film roles, while TWD has been in the air. And what was my conclusion, when I thought about the events and how many people would leave the show, if Mr Reedus wasn't in the cast any more. To be honest, I believe they could send his character for a long walk in the wilderness, and people would believe he will come back alive.

It is as if he's invulnerable. Up to the point. And that was what the producers showed in the last season. They let the audience know Daryl isn't a god like being, put a human. One, whose fate is hanging on Rick's future acts. And in that regards, I believe Negan could actually bring Daryl to gates of Alexandria to ask Rick to chop some bits off.

HAHA you and I have different views on Daryl. I think he's next on the chopping block, or maybe he gets brainwashed by Negan. I don't know what could possibly break Daryl, but I understand his fanbase.

I don't think Norman wants to leave the show anytime soon tho. It's what put him on the map, and he seems like a really genuine dude to the fans. However, I don't put it past Kirkman to leave Daryl out most of the season. Now that we have the group at the lowest/weakest point we have ever seen them. Having Daryl missing in action for most of the season while they submit more and more to Negan, will be a good move. As they said, on Talking Dead, nothing is going to get resolved in a few episodes this time around.

 

[Cli-Fi]

Kirkman's a *******. That is a known fact, because over the years, he has learned how to ramp up tension like no other person. Thing is I didn't expect to get the welcoming back into the series without seeing the victim. Then again, I should have known, because that is a very good example of writers ability to grab the audience, and keep them locked in their seats for the whole glorious ride.

It's good to have The Walking Dead back in the weekly schedule.

I know some people have claimed this series is going down, because the average viewers is below the average. The number is twelve million, plus unknown number of people that doesn't get registered by the system, because of the piracy. In fact, this series is one the most favourite shows and it reaches as much audience as the Game of Thrones. Also, it has already been renewed for the eighth season. How many series can boast on that fact?

However, I don't think this series will ever broadcast numbers of Coronation Street, or some other BBC products that has been in the production for decades. It has an ending. Kirkman has confirmed that many times. But please don't believe, this is going to ending in this, or in the next season, even if people walk away after this episode.

What I can say about Negan is, that they have nailed down the way he speaks, minus swearing. This villain is super intelligent and so ruthless towards his victims. I don't know anything that he's afraid. Instead, he provokes fear in the people around him, and he knowns how to twist them in his course of showing them how powerless they're against him. Not only that, but I know the character, and the way story is written intimates people, readers and viewers alike, because he's so wickedly brilliant as a bad man.

Well, at least to me. And Rick. Probably.

He needed to drive Rick in the lowest point of his life, in order to make him understand the reality of Kirkman's world and that "there's nothing you can do to me," before he set them lose. Rick has never been so vulnerable as what he were, when he faced the zombie horde on his own. He had no weapons. Just his anger and a will to want to live for another day.

So many people would have given up. And, to be honest, it would have been easier, if Rick had let the walkers to end his misery, after the fact that he had lost two of his top people. I can imagine the hatred in audience, when Negan swung Lucille for second time, because I was feeling that coldness within me. Together, Rick and Negan would make a great team, but odds for that happening, in the near future, are well below the zero.

Two Alphas doesn't make a team.

There has to be a reckoning. The cost of Rick's failures is too high.

Do you agree?

PS. Daryl's fate is Kirkman pissing on your corn flakes. He knows how much the audience loves Daryl.

There's a lot of good stuff here CTG. I mostly agree especially with the fanbase part. People will stick around, I know I will. I watch for the characters NOT for the zombies and now since no one seems to be afraid of them anymore it will probably be even more entertaining for me. Though there is that slim chance that this is The Walking Dead at it's best. This is the best it can be and Negan will cause it's untimely death.

So, while I usually don't do write-ups about season premiers, you know I just had to do one: The Walking Dead Meets it’s Untimely Demise with Negan – JohnJFalco.com

 

[Culhwch]

I'm really not sure I want to watch this any longer. I expected that by now, seven years in, they would have found some river valley in the hills to barricade up, grow vegetables and defend themselves. Instead, they wander from one dark place to another, each time more brutal and with less prospects of anything improving. I wouldn't want to live in their world; I would have already given up. I can't connect with someone who could. It is a dark world with a darker future. There is no humanity left, just a downward spiral. Nothing left to look forward to; no hope remains. It is the end of the world.

I think you and I want to watch the same show, Dave.

 

[Bugg]

That was hard to watch - and I don't really care about any of the characters (never have done!). I've been ready to give up on this series so many times and - just as I've convinced myself I've had enough - it pulls out an intense episode like this that drags me back in. I'm not sure it will last. I'm expecting next week to be back to yawndom, but I'm glad they didn't do what I half expected and keep us guessing about who Negan killed for another episode or two.

Spoiler

And I'm delighted that Glen's finally kicked the bucket cos I was seriously peed off that he survived last season.

Still preferred Jeffrey Dean Morgan as daddy Winchester, though

 

[svalbard]

I think you and I want to watch the same show, Dave.

You could always watch reruns of Little House on the Prairie

 

[ctg]

Now that we have the group at the lowest/weakest point we have ever seen them.

Road to Alexandria was the same. They almost gave up. Don't you remember? They have had many low points, and couple of very low points. In this one, Negan broke Rick instead of letting him go or making sure that the big guns are moved away from blocking Saviors.

 

[ctg]

Carl has grown up he has matured a lot.

He has I don't deny it. The time scale isn't the same as it is with his physical body. He ages much faster than the events allow him to, but we are so lucky Chandler Riggs handles Carl's character so well. It was a big thing for him to say to Rick: "Do it Dad. I want you to do it!" Then again, all the blows he has received over the seasons, Carl hasn't exactly whined about them. He has been a man for quite a long time. And I think it confuses tv audience, while originally Carl retained his youth through this period.

I'm really not sure I want to watch this any longer. I expected that by now, seven years in, they would have found some river valley in the hills to barricade up, grow vegetables and defend themselves.

I can only say it's going be painful, stormy and very dark, before they have a long period of peace.

What is that famous saying "we are only one power cut away from barbarism"? Something like that anyway. TWD gives us an indication of what that world may look like and it ain't pretty.

Exactly. Yet, we still have to remember that this is a drama and not reality. And for that purpose Nicotero did magnificent job on showing one of Rick's darkest moment in this period. Not to spoil anything, this wasn't much different from FTWD's brutal final event. The only difference is that Negan did all this work without a fear of anyone laughing at him.

I see Neegan as an insane pragmatist. He's a true leader who sets absolutely uncompromising standards. This is his way of maintaining control. Quite logical in this insane world. Yet it still makes him a superb villan who makes the Governor look like a choir boy.

Governor might be standing in Negan's shadow. But all those bad things doesn't make him an angel in my eyes. Maybe the Governor was more human than Negan, but Negan is showing Rick real dictatorship, while the Governor was trying his best to eradicate all of them. All life is sacred.

I'm delighted that Glen's finally kicked the bucket cos I was seriously peed off that he survived last season.

To be honest, some of the media critics agree with you. They, like us, saw Glen's heroish death by the rubbish bin. If he or Abraham come back, they'll be in zombie mask, but in the way they went out a lot of skills, knowledge and experience was removed from Alexandria safe-zone. Luckily things aren't so bad, because with help of Hilltop community they are presenting quite a formidable force in numbers. I think there were quite a lot of Saviors present in the execution, so Negan did a cockup job by showing the might of his force and giving that way intel to Rick's group.

 

[ctg]

The Walking Dead's Season 7 premiere was, undoubtedly, the most brutal and graphically violent episode of the AMC series to date. Following up on the biggest cliffhanger in recent years stemming from the Season 6 finale, the new episode saw not one but two core characters get their heads bashed in by Negan's "vampire bat" laced with barbed wire.

The show did not shy away from showing the brutality of people losing their heads to a bat, sparking a ton of controversy over whether or not the show had gone too far. If you thought the episode was too much for TV, you were not alone.

The Parents Television Council is condemning the recent episode of The Walking Dead. In a interview with THR, PTC president Tim Winters sounded off about the TV MA show.

"Last night’s season premiere of The Walking Dead was one of the most graphically violent shows we’ve ever seen on television, comparable to the most violent of programs found on premium cable networks," Winter said. "It’s not enough to 'change the channel,' as some people like to advocate, because cable subscribers — regardless of whether they want AMC or watch its programming — are still forced to subsidize violent content. This brutally explicit show is a powerful demonstration of why families should have greater control over the TV networks they purchase from their cable and satellite providers."

Parents Television Council Says The Walking Dead Crossed The Line

While speaking with ComicBook.com's Walking Dead Insider Brandon Davis, Greg Nicotero (who directed the episode) had a message for those negative fans.

In his eyes, the brutality and shock of the episode was what made it a quality viewing experience.

"That means we have done something to affect these people in a way they don’t necessarily know how to process," Nicotero said. "I’m a big Game Of Thrones fan and I’ve been shocked at the turn of events on that show, but I still love it."

Comparing any show to Game Of Thrones is high praise, but Nicotero feels that this premiere of The Walking Dead really set the tone for the rest of the series.Even though he believes they made the right decisions, he also addressed the fans that didn't enjoy the episode.

He encouraged those audience members that this heartache they're feeling is what makes the show great, and that they should appreciate what's happening.

"It’s a knee jerk reaction that people have because they care about these characters. If we killed someone and they didn’t care and they're like 'Okay no big deal I’m just gonna go have a bagel and not worry about it', than that means we haven't done something to connect our people to the characters. It's unfortunate that people want to take a negative spin on it because as far as I’m concerned I’m dedicated to watching a show to see where it goes next."

The Walking Dead: Greg Nicotero's Message To Complaining Fans

“I found about a year and three months ago," Cudlitz (Abraham) said. "They told me that they were going to take me out. They were talking about the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7. They weren’t sure how they were going to do it, Scott [Gimple] wasn’t sure how he wanted to structure the storytelling for the greatest impact. Our whole big thing was wondering how we could possibly keep this secret because of the people out there whose only jobs in the world are to ruin everyone else’s television viewing experience. They had to balance that knowing that there were people who were trying to get that information out there and also knowing that we had some sort of in-house leaks so far. And also because of the very real nature that the show airs all around the world at the same time. A lot of eyeballs are on the show."

The Walking Dead Cast Lied To Keep Kills Secret, Knew For Over A Year

 

[ctg]

Steven Yeun, one of very few remaining actors who had been with the show since the very beginning, weighed in on Glenn's death during the Talking Dead special which followed The Walking Dead on Sunday night.

“Personally for me, I think the death in the comic, Robert wrote in such a messed up but at the same time incredible way to take something away — to make a story as impactful as it is," Yeun said. "When you read that comic, you don't want that moment to go to anyone else."

However, the farewell to The Walking Dead is bittersweet for Yeun. While he is saying goodbye to a family, the actor can finally open up about what's next for him after so many months of secrecy.

“Going into it, there was excitement in the sense of when you know something someone else doesn’t know, you’re like, ‘Yeah, I know stuff. It’s cool.’ Then after a while you’re like, ‘I don’t like knowing this by myself,'" Yeun said. "And then you just dive into a hole after a while because you’re not allowed to say anything. But I’m very lucky to have my castmates and my friends here to bounce my feelings off of or however I’m processing things…. It was fun to lie to people for a minute. But after a while you just can’t lie anymore so I just stopped talking to people.”

In the end, Yeun is grateful for his time with the show. Talking Dead host Chris Hardwick specifically asked Yeun to share a favorite memory from his over six years with the show. He couldn't narrow it down to just one.

“I’ve had so many wonderful experiences with everybody,” he said. “I think what’s cool is that I didn’t watch this episode until about a week before. And going in, you’re like ‘Yeah, I know what happens. I’ve seen it. I lived it. I did. It’s going to do what it’s going to do.’ But watching it you realize the way [Scott M. Gimple] constructed this episode, the way [Greg Nicotero] directed this episode, the way that every single person crushed it. Every single person crushed it. You look at the whole of that and you realize all of those memories just imbue every look part of that episode. You get that whole full rush of like seven seasons of watching this show and it was really gnarly to see that. And so for me, the lasting memory is that, this whole experience.”

The Walking Dead: Steven Yeun Discusses Glenn's Fate

 

[Cli-Fi]

Road to Alexandria was the same. They almost gave up. Don't you remember? They have had many low points, and couple of very low points. In this one, Negan broke Rick instead of letting him go or making sure that the big guns are moved away from blocking Saviors.

Yes but at least with that you were left with a feeling that they might actually pull it off and get there. This episode concluded with no such hope, only despair, and pain. I heard episode is two is going to be way lighter with the introduction of The Kingdom, so maybe hope will return there, but I still don't see Morgan and Carol reuniting with them anytime soon, and by that point the group dynamics could/will change drastically.

 

[Ste-Pe]

Only just caught up with this, felt cheated with the first death, felt that they'd wimped out a little, but second death was unexpected and disturbing, well done amc (and the bit with Carl's arm too). Very tense again

Anyone spot the guy in the background taking a Polaroid of one of the corpses just as negan's crew were packing up? Reminds me of the photos ricks group found in the rooms of the sleeping people they killed last season at the radio tower / outpost. I wonder if they were a similar group to ricks and suffered a similar fate (forced to sleep with pictures of their dead and butchered friends on the walls to keep them in line?), which kind of makes ricks attack on them even more disturbing.

 

[Judderman]

Well that was grim. Not surprising but a bit dragged out. I've put some spoiler tags though I think if you are reading these posts you should watch the episode first! Spoilers should probably be for the comic or rumours really.

Spoiler

Glenn's death wouldn't have been a surprise before the show as he just wouldn't die last season. It was his time. But having that on top of Abraham's death really leaves the group weakened. It certainly gave more of a shock to the viewers though the threat to Carl's arm was perhaps the biggest scare. My wife didn't want to watch that part. And the eye popping part was quite the visual effect.

Also, Daryl is actually mainly to blame (other than Negan) for Glenn's death? He hit Negan so there was more punishment. Or maybe Negan was going to get "Back to It" anyway and this was the reason Daryl was kidnapped.

For a couple of minutes I thought all those characters had been killed off when they got hit on the head but thankfully the rest were just in Rick's head.

Regarding Culwych's comment I think this Neegan story will last into next series. Such a big challenge for Rick's group. There could be all sorts of escapades. Realistically it could be difficult to make a bigger problem for the gang. Perhaps Rick becoming the next Neegan and having to be overthrown..

The viewing figures almost match the season 5 episode 1 high but I suspect there will be a big dropoff and that peak wont be seen again. It was such a taught and somewhat depressing episode that it will likely put off a lot of the non diehard fans. As Dave put above. But it gets over twice the viewer numbers of Game of Thrones so I would expect it will easily make it to at least season 10! I will certainly be watching though I hope the season has some rays of hope.

 

[Culhwch]

I'm glad they didn't do what I half expected and keep us guessing about who Negan killed for another episode or two.

I had that thought too, for the first ten or fifteen minutes. But I think they'd have been lynched if they did.

Spoiler

Also, Daryl is actually mainly to blame (other than Negan) for Glenn's death? He hit Negan so there was more punishment. Or maybe Negan was going to get "Back to It" anyway and this was the reason Daryl was kidnapped.

I wondered about that too. I don't think it was made explicitly clear, but I think he was always going to do two.

But it gets over twice the viewer numbers of Game of Thrones so I would expect it will easily make it to at least season 10! I will certainly be watching though I hope the season has some rays of hope.

Is that true? I wouldn't have thought that was the case at all. And I agree with your last sentiment!

 

[REBerg]

As horrific as this episode was, it was also clever.
During the long months between seasons, I often speculated about who Negan had killed. I had picked Eugene, but I couldn't quite convince myself that it wasn't Glenn.
When Abraham turned out to be the victim, I wasn't all that surprised that I had been wrong; but I was also relieved that it wasn't Glenn. Then, they got me -- and probably a few million other fans. I've got to give Kirkman & Co. credit for continuing to stick with their "nobody's safe" policy.
In the 90-minute Talking Dead that followed the episode, the cast and host Chris Hardwick (who also served as something a grief counselor this round) did their best to equalize the departures of Michael Cudlitz and Steven Yeun from the show, but everyone knew that Yeun would be the one most missed.

 

[Mister_Oy]

Well - what an episode!

Over the last few days I've gone through he whole emotional gamut - from "I'm done, that's it, too much, I'm not watching any more" right through to "Is it time for episode yet?"

That kinda shows they got it right for me - shocking as it was.

I'm guessing we now have a couple of quieter episodes then a slow build up for a mid-season finale showdown.

 

[ctg]

I'm guessing we now have a couple of quieter episodes then a slow build up for a mid-season finale showdown.

Like I said Kirkman is a *******. He won't give us much of peace. I believe things will quiet down a little bit, but it's never going to be completely peaceful, because there will be always danger in this world. I don't believe for one second Rick is going to roll over and play for Negan's tune. It would totally destroy his character.