ctg
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14th of December. Netflix only.
Netflix Travelers (Time Travel Show)
- Thread starter Cli-Fi
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14th of December. Netflix only.
Anthoney
Bearded Member
I was worried about how they left things last season. They've taken things in an interesting direction. On to the second episode.
ctg
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The Director and The Grand Plan. The Helios Incident. The future getting worse. The Director Reset. The Faction and The Confession.
The whole incident with the Director Reset and the Faction ordering Traveller's to record their Confession really threw a ball back at the team. They are not alone solving the world problems. What we don't know is how far the future has been altered by the interventions and if every time Traveller's do one, are they making the chasm between the Faction and The Director even wider.
Maybe the thing is that the Traveller's has no choice but to take the new relationship between them and The FBI seriously. Carly surely was upset about the whole thing as she thought that MacLaren gave zero f's about anything else than the wife. The thing is, Traveller's are humans, even if they come from the future, and ego certainly plays a part in the story life.
Yet they gave all normal humans memory inhibitors. In the stories they will never work. There is always a loophole that allows them to get over the brainwashing stuff that the Traveller's were feeding at the farm. Nothing is permanent. Not even in those who should be the safest bet.
Kath started seeing visions and David as if he was on the job for a defence role. Their lives were not normal. Nothing is normal when you get involved with the extraordinary. Jeff certainly took it to another level by getting the custody of the child.
Yet, afterwards he was obsessed by the drink that he ignored his boy. He was listened to Rockwell's accusations as if they were the new gospel. But why to take care of the boy if he cannot devote attention then being drunken and disorderly. For some people that is the only way they can live. I cannot even say that the Travellers caused his alcoholism.
They could cure it. But they can't, because it's not the mission.
If the Director is the most power Ai ever created, I don't really understand why it needed to create Ilsa for the past humans, if it could always take over the child Ai's. Agent Yates certainly didn't believe nothing as her traditional way of thinking doesn't allow to go beyond normal stuff. The same thing applied to all the others as they couldn't understand that all lives were replaced at the time of death. It was as if they were scared and that's why they were launching coordinated attacks all around the world. A human reaction to something horrific is always extreme.
The FBI director certainly went to extreme lengths with the paranoia. But he didn't go out like the Rockwell Report on their so called "fake news." Why is that we cannot believe the extraordinary cannot happen? Funny thing is that Maclaren couldn't understand that the Director had made a deal with the FBI and Traveller's program had a new director, because of the deal Ai had made with the past to allow Traveller's continuing presence at the past.
Yates, once given the position and access to the Traveller's program couldn't stop chasing the leads on the future. She figured out that the future had got pretty bad for thousands of Traveller's coming into the past to fix things. But if that sort of thing would really happen, wouldn't the Traveller program keep going forever as there is nothing good in the future. White becomes Black. Day to Night. Good to Evil.
It is like a perpetual squirrel wheel. You do things that you believe are for the good. But all that Traveller's has caused is the appearance of the Faction, and more problems in the future.
I did find Rockwell's assassination attempt hilarious. The man spitting out the truth, when he was told the truth and nothing else, couldn't handle it. He was like a rabbit staring at the headlights. He rather went on with BS then understand what was going at around him. But when the download happened, Yates couldn't understand what was happening.
All she saw was that people got hurt instead of understanding that the impossible TT happened before her eyes. It is as if it's impossible for her to understand the process.
Mac's missing day. Whenever the Director chose Mac to lead, the Ai made sure that it chose the best candidate out everyone. Too bad that the Ai's make mistakes. They are not gods. They are not in control of the destiny even if they say they are, because everything dies. A nearby star could go supernova and there would be nothing that the TT's could do. They could try, but at the end, they would have to go so far back in the past that it would change everything.
I didn't find super interesting that the team had messed up with their bosses memories. But Mac couldn't be like their normal subjects as he has an investigative mind. He couldn't take the memory wipe as something that needed to be done. It's human nature and it's also deeply rooted within Mac. Maybe FBI should change their motto to be "Don't trust anyone. Investigate everything."
Strangely the things that Traveller's do is that they act like ultimate nanny's. Bad stuff has to happen. It's the natures law. You cannot prevent it. Not forever, because the ultimate good is as bad as the ultimate evil. It's just a different kind of evil.
Alexander was going to grow up to be a bad mad. Until the point Mac spent time with him and gave him another reason to live in a peaceful life. Except we don't really know how different things are going to be since everything always changes.
Trevor said that there are billions of things happening to billions of people all over the world. There is nothing nobody do, as the Director is the only one that can calculate the outcomes. What is the Director cannot see everything? What if it's just reaching out in the dark and all that happens is still random things. Just like Ilsa gained consciousness.
Maybe the thing is that the Traveller's has no choice but to take the new relationship between them and The FBI seriously. Carly surely was upset about the whole thing as she thought that MacLaren gave zero f's about anything else than the wife. The thing is, Traveller's are humans, even if they come from the future, and ego certainly plays a part in the story life.
Yet they gave all normal humans memory inhibitors. In the stories they will never work. There is always a loophole that allows them to get over the brainwashing stuff that the Traveller's were feeding at the farm. Nothing is permanent. Not even in those who should be the safest bet.
Kath started seeing visions and David as if he was on the job for a defence role. Their lives were not normal. Nothing is normal when you get involved with the extraordinary. Jeff certainly took it to another level by getting the custody of the child.
Yet, afterwards he was obsessed by the drink that he ignored his boy. He was listened to Rockwell's accusations as if they were the new gospel. But why to take care of the boy if he cannot devote attention then being drunken and disorderly. For some people that is the only way they can live. I cannot even say that the Travellers caused his alcoholism.
They could cure it. But they can't, because it's not the mission.
If the Director is the most power Ai ever created, I don't really understand why it needed to create Ilsa for the past humans, if it could always take over the child Ai's. Agent Yates certainly didn't believe nothing as her traditional way of thinking doesn't allow to go beyond normal stuff. The same thing applied to all the others as they couldn't understand that all lives were replaced at the time of death. It was as if they were scared and that's why they were launching coordinated attacks all around the world. A human reaction to something horrific is always extreme.
The FBI director certainly went to extreme lengths with the paranoia. But he didn't go out like the Rockwell Report on their so called "fake news." Why is that we cannot believe the extraordinary cannot happen? Funny thing is that Maclaren couldn't understand that the Director had made a deal with the FBI and Traveller's program had a new director, because of the deal Ai had made with the past to allow Traveller's continuing presence at the past.
Yates, once given the position and access to the Traveller's program couldn't stop chasing the leads on the future. She figured out that the future had got pretty bad for thousands of Traveller's coming into the past to fix things. But if that sort of thing would really happen, wouldn't the Traveller program keep going forever as there is nothing good in the future. White becomes Black. Day to Night. Good to Evil.
It is like a perpetual squirrel wheel. You do things that you believe are for the good. But all that Traveller's has caused is the appearance of the Faction, and more problems in the future.
I did find Rockwell's assassination attempt hilarious. The man spitting out the truth, when he was told the truth and nothing else, couldn't handle it. He was like a rabbit staring at the headlights. He rather went on with BS then understand what was going at around him. But when the download happened, Yates couldn't understand what was happening.
All she saw was that people got hurt instead of understanding that the impossible TT happened before her eyes. It is as if it's impossible for her to understand the process.
Mac's missing day. Whenever the Director chose Mac to lead, the Ai made sure that it chose the best candidate out everyone. Too bad that the Ai's make mistakes. They are not gods. They are not in control of the destiny even if they say they are, because everything dies. A nearby star could go supernova and there would be nothing that the TT's could do. They could try, but at the end, they would have to go so far back in the past that it would change everything.
I didn't find super interesting that the team had messed up with their bosses memories. But Mac couldn't be like their normal subjects as he has an investigative mind. He couldn't take the memory wipe as something that needed to be done. It's human nature and it's also deeply rooted within Mac. Maybe FBI should change their motto to be "Don't trust anyone. Investigate everything."
Strangely the things that Traveller's do is that they act like ultimate nanny's. Bad stuff has to happen. It's the natures law. You cannot prevent it. Not forever, because the ultimate good is as bad as the ultimate evil. It's just a different kind of evil.
Alexander was going to grow up to be a bad mad. Until the point Mac spent time with him and gave him another reason to live in a peaceful life. Except we don't really know how different things are going to be since everything always changes.
Trevor said that there are billions of things happening to billions of people all over the world. There is nothing nobody do, as the Director is the only one that can calculate the outcomes. What is the Director cannot see everything? What if it's just reaching out in the dark and all that happens is still random things. Just like Ilsa gained consciousness.
The things they do are small potatoes. I don't see that i.e. saving a child, stopping a good man from committing murder, can change the world. I am aware of the butterfly effect, however I am also aware that many movements in politics and such are bigger than one single person or one single event, most would happen anyway, because the time was right for it - just like inventions of machines or scientific discovery. It might happen later, more slowly, or in a different way, but it would surely still happen.
So, I expected them to move on to larger things, larger events and changes. However, they are still doing the small stuff. The end of the world is supposed to be nearing. There is a deadline here, but they are moving deckchairs on the Titanic or fiddling while Rome burns.
Maybe the calculation of the outcomes is just too difficult a task, even for the Director?
I should add that they have stopped an asteroid hitting Earth and an major disaster after an attack on a nuclear power plant, but if those events were really so devastating then why has the future not changed? Of course, it is possible that the Faction versus the Director has now brought about an equally devastating future - a self-fulfilling, 12 Monkeys and Terminator 2 kind of time loop - but if that is now the story then I will feel a little cheated as it has been done too many times before.
ctg
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Well, the outcome of one event might be clear, but the impact of what it does to the lives of others isn't. Time and again the Director has sent the Travellers to prevent something and all they have as a thanks is the Faction and its warring parties. The world in the future has improved, but no so much that it would have become an utopia. It is going to be interesting to find out if the Faction Ai will present itself in this season.
I don't expect them to have bigger events back to back, as every season has had one or two that has been in the idea level very huge. We have witnessed the Faction throwing large numbers of assets to make the event happening in their way. The same thing has happened with the Director forces, with last season seeing the Director completely shutting down and being under a direct assault. That is not fiddling with the deckchairs.
Neverthless, I do agree that because we don't see the future, and we don't know what's what, and whodunnit, so things like killing the boy in the forest loses the potential impact they would have on the watchers, if they really knew.
Well, that really sped up in the final few episodes! I didn't expect such closure, so soon,, bittersweet though it was. An odd ending; surely that really is the very end?
This is a series that has actually got better and better as it went on. I really didn't think much of the first series and was amazed it got renewed. The second was excellent. This was superb.
All very plausible with the ramifications of stopping one of nuclear bombs. Also I was correct about the Faction versus Director being the cause of the demise in a cycle that cannot be broken. However, that is a time travel trope so no points for that. I really can't see them continuing with a Traveller Program Two. That would just result in further cycles of the same.
Anthoney
Bearded Member
Do you think they wrote it to be a total series ending? They left a door open but it felt like goodbye.
It is probably written as both, to cover all eventualities, but it is isn't the end then it is the better than many actual series endings have been.
I’m about to start S3.
I’d held off watching Travelers because I dislike Will and Grace so much. I got angry that they cast a straight man in a gay man’s role when there are so few lead gay characters on TV, but mostly because W&G seemed to be half an hour of people walking in and out of rooms shouting and slamming doors m. W&G are so hard to like in the ensemble so seeing EricMc in this put me off.
However I’d mainlined Timeless, OA, Z Nation etc and needed something new to watch. I was corrected. I see a much darker and complex man here so I’ve stuck with this admittedly slow moving show and am enjoying it. Eric mcC is great here.
I do feel a little by-the-numbers about the personal IRL challenges of the travelers. Grant’s wife, Marcy’s treatment of Dave, Trevor’s parental struggles and most of all the baby storyline are so extraneous as to add nothing. I understand why they’re there but they’re just so hopelessly mismatched against The Plan that I find it laughable that the travelers take them soooo seriously.
Also, I despised Racetrack in BSG so it’s nice to see horrid things happening to Leah Cairns.
I doubt anything will manage to supplant The OA as the most important, original and brave storytelling for a long time but till then, I’m enjoying travelers a lot.
pH
I’d held off watching Travelers because I dislike Will and Grace so much. I got angry that they cast a straight man in a gay man’s role when there are so few lead gay characters on TV, but mostly because W&G seemed to be half an hour of people walking in and out of rooms shouting and slamming doors m. W&G are so hard to like in the ensemble so seeing EricMc in this put me off.
However I’d mainlined Timeless, OA, Z Nation etc and needed something new to watch. I was corrected. I see a much darker and complex man here so I’ve stuck with this admittedly slow moving show and am enjoying it. Eric mcC is great here.
I do feel a little by-the-numbers about the personal IRL challenges of the travelers. Grant’s wife, Marcy’s treatment of Dave, Trevor’s parental struggles and most of all the baby storyline are so extraneous as to add nothing. I understand why they’re there but they’re just so hopelessly mismatched against The Plan that I find it laughable that the travelers take them soooo seriously.
Also, I despised Racetrack in BSG so it’s nice to see horrid things happening to Leah Cairns.
I doubt anything will manage to supplant The OA as the most important, original and brave storytelling for a long time but till then, I’m enjoying travelers a lot.
pH
ctg
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It is hard for us to know if the Faction created the Director or if it was the was other way around from what we have seen. We trust that the Travellers are forces of good, while the truth could be that they are the forces of evil and all the Faction tries to do is not mess with the timeline as at the other end of the scale the paradoxes are waiting as anomalies caused by the time-travel.
TT is serious business and anything that comes with it has to be done according to the protocols. But little did the Traveller's knew that somehow 001 had survived. We saw him using the TT machine in the last season, but I think we all assumed that he went back in time even further than just downloading into a new host and continuing his business as her.
What is clear is that The Faction needs Traveller 001 more then he needs them. It is like they cannot function him and everything depends on this one soul, while the Traveller's are mostly affected by the Director. In the long run who is more important, a man or a machine?
The Faction became the rebellion that caused the war on Ai's. To them the Traveller 001 is important as Simon was the first rebellion. He is the figurehead and the leader for whole movement on keeping the timeline intact instead of fiddling with the reality.
Ever after Carly lost Jeffrey Jr to her so-called husband and consequently to the social services she has gone back to her original babies as no business is more important them them. The security types loves fiddling their with their toys and seeing their arsenal is a satisfaction on its own. But knowing how difficult the marriages and separations can be, Carly shouldn't have been so fast on taking the toys out. The ex's will find out. And if your ex is a cop, it causes even more problems.
The easiest way to solve the problem like Jeff is to take him out. Who is going to miss drunken ex-police with abusive mouth? In the grand scale of things lives that has already been derailed shouldn't cause major problems in the future. This series has thought us that it is the important people, important machines that are crucial items for the future's sake. Anyone else should be free to be taken out.
I didn't see Jeff was going to lose his life to the Traveller's when his madness made him to confront Traveller's in the daylight. Thing is for being the pain in the arse, why wasn't he overwritten sooner? The traveller's could have arranged his death earlier if that had known what a fool he was. So why is that Philip the Historian didn't knew he was going to be used for a host later?
It's interesting because the same thing could be arranged for Kat, while Marcy needs David in her life. Otherwise she doesn't function properly. Katryn however could find a new man and live her life without Grant quite easily.
I didn't see that similarly to Traveller's method for TT was to transfer Director consciousness over Ilsa's. Ilsa's machine was state-of-the-art down to last line in the configuration, but like magic the Director was able to take over everything and not fool Ilsa's owner in the process. In a way Ai's TT is far better method then downloading a consiousness into the hostbody as it's like an upgrade to us, but a downgrade to the Ai. It's just how can one function in the present and in the future at the same time? How do the Ai's communicate between each other?
TT is serious business and anything that comes with it has to be done according to the protocols. But little did the Traveller's knew that somehow 001 had survived. We saw him using the TT machine in the last season, but I think we all assumed that he went back in time even further than just downloading into a new host and continuing his business as her.
What is clear is that The Faction needs Traveller 001 more then he needs them. It is like they cannot function him and everything depends on this one soul, while the Traveller's are mostly affected by the Director. In the long run who is more important, a man or a machine?
The Faction became the rebellion that caused the war on Ai's. To them the Traveller 001 is important as Simon was the first rebellion. He is the figurehead and the leader for whole movement on keeping the timeline intact instead of fiddling with the reality.
Ever after Carly lost Jeffrey Jr to her so-called husband and consequently to the social services she has gone back to her original babies as no business is more important them them. The security types loves fiddling their with their toys and seeing their arsenal is a satisfaction on its own. But knowing how difficult the marriages and separations can be, Carly shouldn't have been so fast on taking the toys out. The ex's will find out. And if your ex is a cop, it causes even more problems.
The easiest way to solve the problem like Jeff is to take him out. Who is going to miss drunken ex-police with abusive mouth? In the grand scale of things lives that has already been derailed shouldn't cause major problems in the future. This series has thought us that it is the important people, important machines that are crucial items for the future's sake. Anyone else should be free to be taken out.
I didn't see Jeff was going to lose his life to the Traveller's when his madness made him to confront Traveller's in the daylight. Thing is for being the pain in the arse, why wasn't he overwritten sooner? The traveller's could have arranged his death earlier if that had known what a fool he was. So why is that Philip the Historian didn't knew he was going to be used for a host later?
It's interesting because the same thing could be arranged for Kat, while Marcy needs David in her life. Otherwise she doesn't function properly. Katryn however could find a new man and live her life without Grant quite easily.
I didn't see that similarly to Traveller's method for TT was to transfer Director consciousness over Ilsa's. Ilsa's machine was state-of-the-art down to last line in the configuration, but like magic the Director was able to take over everything and not fool Ilsa's owner in the process. In a way Ai's TT is far better method then downloading a consiousness into the hostbody as it's like an upgrade to us, but a downgrade to the Ai. It's just how can one function in the present and in the future at the same time? How do the Ai's communicate between each other?
Anthoney
Bearded Member
I think you must have missed something. The faction wants to and is trying to change the timeline just as much as the travelers and the director. The girl who tricked and seduced the historian said it flatout, "We want to change the future just as much as you do. We just don't think a machine should be in charge of those changes." 001 was a hero of theirs because he disobeyed the director and refused to die the way he did in the natural timeline.
ctg
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Yes, they want, but we haven't seen them changing timeline as much as the Travellers. It was not the Faction that got attacked around the world by FBI and other nation players. It was Directors forces. Even Traveller 001 hasn't done as much changes as the Travellers has done on Director's orders. They are the biggest force and the series has made us to think them as the protagonist, while The Faction is almost always shown as the bad guys.
In the Expanse I root for the OPA even though they are quite obvious choice for being antagonist. From Earth's POV they are the bad boys. Do you see what I mean now?
Interesting: this might be why I didn't rate the first Season much. I agree - the world is going to end, but they are preoccupied with personal relationships and petty details rather than the big picture. However, as we move through the second Season, those relationships are all they have in a future that becomes progressively more unpredictable. Then, in the third Season, those relationships are what teach what it is to be human; why an AI like the Director can never understand what it is to be human. Keep watching until the final two episodes and you see that those "extraneous" relationships are central to the whole story.
They are why the Traveller program ultimately will always fail. Especially, Grant meeting his wife, David's heroic death, and Trevor's accelerated ageing.
It’s so funny you posted this Dave. I watched eps 3.1-3.5 last night and saw exactly the same logic. S2 built on their personal life struggles and s3 seems to be bringing it home.
So I changed my mind
pH
ctg
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I do believe that Dave is right as he says an Ai cannot possibly understand human life. I agree. They won't because their lives aren't like ours. Theirs are vastly different from us, as Ai life are way more complicated than anything humans could comprehend. The ultimate good might be actually same as the ultimate evil. The only thing that changes is the colour ... or light ... or whatever symbolises the thing.
The thing is that we humans are made for emotions. We all have them. Even the sociopaths. Ai's however had nothing but their logic. They don't seem value in something that might be important for us, because it's not valuable variable. The Director sent a message: "A programmer needed to resolve a corrupted messenger," in a style that is custom for the computerized systems.
They need us more than we do need them. The director didn't see that how the Ai takeover could be affecting the child, when it took over, but if you're that child and you live long enough to see the Ai's to become major players in the geopolitics you might feel resentment. You might have what the Ai's and the Traveller program did to you.
I loved that Grace "There's no Uber here!" was sent to fix the case. The problem is that she doesn't have a stop-button. Everything need to be done right at the minute, and nothing that 21st century presents is good enough for her. Even the blinking LED's are too slow for her. It makes me wonder what sort of life she did live in the 23rd?
As a parent I would have freaked out if someone like Grace asked my sibling to stare at her tablet for 20 seconds to fix the subject brain. I'm a bit surprised that neither one of them understood the nerd language and ask why she's thought Naomi was a programmed? I would have loved to get an answer. Maybe because it would have explained the Traveller technology and where the Ai technology is heading with the Consciousness Transfer Machines.
I almost wet myself when it turned out that Grace's script had failed, and when they returned to the site Naomi's family was going through a full blown exorcism. As a computer nerd I cannot find anything more hilarious. There is a fix to everything computer related, but very rarely the solution is calling demonologist to make a visit. But I do understand that when your sibling start to write assembly code like that you would worry.
It floored me when they revealed that Naomi was a Traveller child. And that the thing inside her wasn't just wetware script but a full blown Ai that a child brain couldn't handle. Trevor then went to explain that messanger program is meant to use weakened versions of Ai, but instead of that the one that was used was the real thing. It should also mean that in 23rd the Ai's can incorporate human bodies as long as they're modified to stand the code. It might mean that in the Traveller future cybernetics are really real things and nobody bats a lid to having machine integrated into them. Grace however said that Ai needs humans to operate, because it was built that way.
They also did acknowledge that Ai life is still a life. It is different from us. But they also speculated that it was emergent Ai, most probably meaning that like us, the Ai's need time and place to evolve. Most important thing that happened was that it somehow managed to transfer consiousness in Trevor. The Director told the Messenger that it can live within its systems as long as the Director lives and that life will be better, faster, and more efficient then anything humans can offer.
The thing is that we humans are made for emotions. We all have them. Even the sociopaths. Ai's however had nothing but their logic. They don't seem value in something that might be important for us, because it's not valuable variable. The Director sent a message: "A programmer needed to resolve a corrupted messenger," in a style that is custom for the computerized systems.
They need us more than we do need them. The director didn't see that how the Ai takeover could be affecting the child, when it took over, but if you're that child and you live long enough to see the Ai's to become major players in the geopolitics you might feel resentment. You might have what the Ai's and the Traveller program did to you.
I loved that Grace "There's no Uber here!" was sent to fix the case. The problem is that she doesn't have a stop-button. Everything need to be done right at the minute, and nothing that 21st century presents is good enough for her. Even the blinking LED's are too slow for her. It makes me wonder what sort of life she did live in the 23rd?
As a parent I would have freaked out if someone like Grace asked my sibling to stare at her tablet for 20 seconds to fix the subject brain. I'm a bit surprised that neither one of them understood the nerd language and ask why she's thought Naomi was a programmed? I would have loved to get an answer. Maybe because it would have explained the Traveller technology and where the Ai technology is heading with the Consciousness Transfer Machines.
I almost wet myself when it turned out that Grace's script had failed, and when they returned to the site Naomi's family was going through a full blown exorcism. As a computer nerd I cannot find anything more hilarious. There is a fix to everything computer related, but very rarely the solution is calling demonologist to make a visit. But I do understand that when your sibling start to write assembly code like that you would worry.
It floored me when they revealed that Naomi was a Traveller child. And that the thing inside her wasn't just wetware script but a full blown Ai that a child brain couldn't handle. Trevor then went to explain that messanger program is meant to use weakened versions of Ai, but instead of that the one that was used was the real thing. It should also mean that in 23rd the Ai's can incorporate human bodies as long as they're modified to stand the code. It might mean that in the Traveller future cybernetics are really real things and nobody bats a lid to having machine integrated into them. Grace however said that Ai needs humans to operate, because it was built that way.
They also did acknowledge that Ai life is still a life. It is different from us. But they also speculated that it was emergent Ai, most probably meaning that like us, the Ai's need time and place to evolve. Most important thing that happened was that it somehow managed to transfer consiousness in Trevor. The Director told the Messenger that it can live within its systems as long as the Director lives and that life will be better, faster, and more efficient then anything humans can offer.
I'm sorry I cannot write these fast enough, but Traveller's is a Christmas treat for me. I like to savour it as there won't be anything like it for a while. Also because it's that time of the year, there are so many other things that one has to do.
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ctg
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I did find my sense of disbelief to drop, when I realised that Philip was with the other historians at the update. I never really knew what they were, but it kind of makes sense that the Living Historians would get something. But I never figured out that it was a code, similar to what Grace used to clear the error in the Messenger program.
Thing is, humans are not meant to be updated. Our brain cannot function to our knowledge with a direct download that first Historians and later on Mac got into. It's just I don't understand why Mac, if he wasn't compatible for being Historian, got so stuck with the update display? More to the point why is that the Faction wasn't staring the thing if they so wanted to get bits from the future?
It was a nice move from the Faction to save a minor nobody getting overrun at the street. They never showed close ups on the person, but seeing from Philip reaction he knew exactly what Faction did to save a VIP. How can you verify from a street cam, if you don't see the face that the victim was the victim and not a dupe?
The Faction has been playing dirty from the beginning. They say they want to save the humanity, but at what cost? The machines and the Ai were made by humans. All they need is to understand that everything can be wrecked and rebuild. No knowledge is lost. If it is, it can be reinvented or backengineered.
I did find intriguing that Trevor had managed to build a black box, program it correctly and probably test it, before they plugged Hall's brain into. In the cyberpunk literature the black box construct is usually operated by an Ai to create an Virtual Reality for the living person. The thing that makes it interesting is that inside it the time moves differently. What could be days and weeks to a person inside it, is minutes and hours to person at outside.
They failed to explain it. Instead the viewer got a rushed feeling as the operation to save Hall's life goes in the real world, while he tried to live his last memories at the inside. In the series, he's an antagonist, but I would have preferred them showing more of his life and his operations. Maybe the reason for it is because he's a ruff character and he's willing to bend the rules to get the objective achieved.
I find it strange that Hall's Historian betrayed their team, and then tried to be the inside man to turn Philip towards the Faction. I don't really get for why the Faction would need the other ones, when they already had one. It did fit that Hall's right hand man betrayed him on Kyle's orders.
The black sheep simply are never popular. Betrayers even less. It's no wonder why they are called the wolves-in-the-sheep-clothing. But as a fighter Hall fought till the glorious end. Funny bit about it is that he was already in the Purgatory before he died. Nobody didn't call The Black Box as such a thing.
Thing is, humans are not meant to be updated. Our brain cannot function to our knowledge with a direct download that first Historians and later on Mac got into. It's just I don't understand why Mac, if he wasn't compatible for being Historian, got so stuck with the update display? More to the point why is that the Faction wasn't staring the thing if they so wanted to get bits from the future?
It was a nice move from the Faction to save a minor nobody getting overrun at the street. They never showed close ups on the person, but seeing from Philip reaction he knew exactly what Faction did to save a VIP. How can you verify from a street cam, if you don't see the face that the victim was the victim and not a dupe?
The Faction has been playing dirty from the beginning. They say they want to save the humanity, but at what cost? The machines and the Ai were made by humans. All they need is to understand that everything can be wrecked and rebuild. No knowledge is lost. If it is, it can be reinvented or backengineered.
I did find intriguing that Trevor had managed to build a black box, program it correctly and probably test it, before they plugged Hall's brain into. In the cyberpunk literature the black box construct is usually operated by an Ai to create an Virtual Reality for the living person. The thing that makes it interesting is that inside it the time moves differently. What could be days and weeks to a person inside it, is minutes and hours to person at outside.
They failed to explain it. Instead the viewer got a rushed feeling as the operation to save Hall's life goes in the real world, while he tried to live his last memories at the inside. In the series, he's an antagonist, but I would have preferred them showing more of his life and his operations. Maybe the reason for it is because he's a ruff character and he's willing to bend the rules to get the objective achieved.
I find it strange that Hall's Historian betrayed their team, and then tried to be the inside man to turn Philip towards the Faction. I don't really get for why the Faction would need the other ones, when they already had one. It did fit that Hall's right hand man betrayed him on Kyle's orders.
The black sheep simply are never popular. Betrayers even less. It's no wonder why they are called the wolves-in-the-sheep-clothing. But as a fighter Hall fought till the glorious end. Funny bit about it is that he was already in the Purgatory before he died. Nobody didn't call The Black Box as such a thing.
I really liked that Trevor's missing minutes got an explanation and that the Ai felt responsible for failing one of its earliest subjects. It is an interesting paradox, and well fitting for the series that the TT's has a temporal disease that prevents them from downloading again and again. But is because of the subjects age or is it because the Director don't want the humans to have an ability to live forever?
The immortality has been always a thing that people had wanted, and you see it in some many SF and Fantasy books. Even in some of the Horror stories the antagonist is an immortal monster. It's just there is nobody that can pass a god, because everything has the end date.
I was sad that it was Trevor's time. I understand his choice, because getting locked inside your body is not a great prospect. But as Trevor explained that he and his wife had been the first candidates and they'd risen children in three different lives, my scientific curiosity was peaked as the chances are that the earlier candidates didn't go through a perfected soul transfer. It might be that the paradox that caused the host to get locked inside their minds was because the program was still in the baby shoes.
The thing is, if there are under 10 000 Traveller's, 1 in 5000 chance of developing Temporal Amnesia is pretty high and the abnormality should be more common then it's shown in the series. At least Grace was smart person to accept Trevor's choice. It's just if you have Temporal Amnesia going in the host body already, how is going to be cured by an override?
What does a new person going to fix inside the host body? Nothing. The chances are that it's going to happen to the new Traveller as well. So, if you're going to die, die properly and don't let the others to suffer because of you. Luckily Trevor could still remember the details for his implant program. It's just I cannot really understand why he was so pissed off when the Team made a successful implementation of Trevor's device.
In one hand you want to live, in the other, you might have had enough. Just like Philip seemed to have had enough of seeing ghosts of the past and the future. How come nobody is talking about his Temporal Illusions and try to fix them before he's going completely bonkers?
The immortality has been always a thing that people had wanted, and you see it in some many SF and Fantasy books. Even in some of the Horror stories the antagonist is an immortal monster. It's just there is nobody that can pass a god, because everything has the end date.
I was sad that it was Trevor's time. I understand his choice, because getting locked inside your body is not a great prospect. But as Trevor explained that he and his wife had been the first candidates and they'd risen children in three different lives, my scientific curiosity was peaked as the chances are that the earlier candidates didn't go through a perfected soul transfer. It might be that the paradox that caused the host to get locked inside their minds was because the program was still in the baby shoes.
The thing is, if there are under 10 000 Traveller's, 1 in 5000 chance of developing Temporal Amnesia is pretty high and the abnormality should be more common then it's shown in the series. At least Grace was smart person to accept Trevor's choice. It's just if you have Temporal Amnesia going in the host body already, how is going to be cured by an override?
What does a new person going to fix inside the host body? Nothing. The chances are that it's going to happen to the new Traveller as well. So, if you're going to die, die properly and don't let the others to suffer because of you. Luckily Trevor could still remember the details for his implant program. It's just I cannot really understand why he was so pissed off when the Team made a successful implementation of Trevor's device.
In one hand you want to live, in the other, you might have had enough. Just like Philip seemed to have had enough of seeing ghosts of the past and the future. How come nobody is talking about his Temporal Illusions and try to fix them before he's going completely bonkers?
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
Why would you choose a body of psychopath for the Traveller? Mac said to his FBI boss that the psyco case is nothing compared to what the future holds. Yet, he and Traveller 7189 had no idea that the future could ef up so badly that an innocent man could end in the body of criminally insane.
The Director is not perfect, and the humans working with him can make mistakes. It really surprises me that there are nearly ten thousand Travellers in the past, but not for once did it come up that the Ai had cocked up and misplaced an important person in a wrong body. Sure the evidence might have been destroyed in the car fire, but if the future Travellers are studying the cases someone should have spotted the error and prevented it from ever happening.
Taken in the hypothesis from the last episode, is criminally insane cured by overwriting ones soul? Does the soul posses the chances of one going mental or is the fault inside ones body? Could it be that one day in the future 7189 might commit a murder just because there is a malfunction in the brain or are the mental defects really all in our minds?
Speaking of which seeing abnormal things freaks us. We get scared and we develop PTSD's as result. As Philip I would certainly develop trauma from seeing through the quantum field to parallel dimensions displaying alternative events. In a way Travellers is teaching us that the multiverse happens in the same material world, and the humans are just actors in it. But we have always thought that the multiverse and parallel timelines are separate entities. You can visit them but you cannot physically be in them at the same time.
What? The future Ai gets information from the past encoded in the blood by nanites? How is this possible? David called it "nuts." I would have done the same.
The Director is not perfect, and the humans working with him can make mistakes. It really surprises me that there are nearly ten thousand Travellers in the past, but not for once did it come up that the Ai had cocked up and misplaced an important person in a wrong body. Sure the evidence might have been destroyed in the car fire, but if the future Travellers are studying the cases someone should have spotted the error and prevented it from ever happening.
Taken in the hypothesis from the last episode, is criminally insane cured by overwriting ones soul? Does the soul posses the chances of one going mental or is the fault inside ones body? Could it be that one day in the future 7189 might commit a murder just because there is a malfunction in the brain or are the mental defects really all in our minds?
Speaking of which seeing abnormal things freaks us. We get scared and we develop PTSD's as result. As Philip I would certainly develop trauma from seeing through the quantum field to parallel dimensions displaying alternative events. In a way Travellers is teaching us that the multiverse happens in the same material world, and the humans are just actors in it. But we have always thought that the multiverse and parallel timelines are separate entities. You can visit them but you cannot physically be in them at the same time.
What? The future Ai gets information from the past encoded in the blood by nanites? How is this possible? David called it "nuts." I would have done the same.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
- Messages
- 9,829
The whole idea of transporting data through time through blood is based on the fact that a humane genome supports around 725 megabytes of data. It's not a great deal, especially as the information is coded by two bits, 1 and 0. On and Off.
So blood or DNA is not the best, or second best, or third best option for storing historical events and all the variables associated with them. You cannot cram images or videos into single DNA strand and expect that it'll all makes sense at the other end. And mixing DNA strands in the packet is even worse, because DNA degenerates faster than current methods.
Man, why Travellers had to become stupid? Why is that the Engineers cannot create their cool technology from the future and use it in the storage containers instead of going with the biostorage mumbo jumbo? I would have bought the crystal storage idea and been cool with it as this level of bollocks in story breaking stuff.
The Faction went and said that they're trying to prevent the bad future from happening. But the problem with nuking the Archives is that by doing it, you are causing the world ending paradox. Effectively you are forcing the humanity inside the loop. And by using the futuristic tools you're only forcing the future to advance. Eventually it could lead into even worse apocalypse.
Mac went to say that they store all of 21st Century digital information in the blood. Why could he said they were storing the nanites as even that would have been more plausible then the blood MacGuffin!
Well, I think that's enough of that and I'm beginning to understand what @Dave meant with the relationships matter as right towards the end, all the loose strands are getting fixed. But from Director's POV the relationships and the people that are not directly related to the Traveller program success gets erased. To be honest I don't understand why Mac's wife wasn't offed sooner as she doesn't provide much of function.
Certainly not as much as David does Marcy. In fact David should have been main cast instead of being one of the supporting cast. I know that David is listed in the main cast, but he's written as a supporting character, and the nuclear event dealing is one of the very few episodes that are directly connected to the series events. When Jeff got overwritten, he became function thing for the team instead of being a ball attached to the chain.
David's passing was really sad. Reilly Dorman should deserve an Emmy for the role as he truly played a great role.
So blood or DNA is not the best, or second best, or third best option for storing historical events and all the variables associated with them. You cannot cram images or videos into single DNA strand and expect that it'll all makes sense at the other end. And mixing DNA strands in the packet is even worse, because DNA degenerates faster than current methods.
Man, why Travellers had to become stupid? Why is that the Engineers cannot create their cool technology from the future and use it in the storage containers instead of going with the biostorage mumbo jumbo? I would have bought the crystal storage idea and been cool with it as this level of bollocks in story breaking stuff.
The Faction went and said that they're trying to prevent the bad future from happening. But the problem with nuking the Archives is that by doing it, you are causing the world ending paradox. Effectively you are forcing the humanity inside the loop. And by using the futuristic tools you're only forcing the future to advance. Eventually it could lead into even worse apocalypse.
Mac went to say that they store all of 21st Century digital information in the blood. Why could he said they were storing the nanites as even that would have been more plausible then the blood MacGuffin!
Well, I think that's enough of that and I'm beginning to understand what @Dave meant with the relationships matter as right towards the end, all the loose strands are getting fixed. But from Director's POV the relationships and the people that are not directly related to the Traveller program success gets erased. To be honest I don't understand why Mac's wife wasn't offed sooner as she doesn't provide much of function.
Certainly not as much as David does Marcy. In fact David should have been main cast instead of being one of the supporting cast. I know that David is listed in the main cast, but he's written as a supporting character, and the nuclear event dealing is one of the very few episodes that are directly connected to the series events. When Jeff got overwritten, he became function thing for the team instead of being a ball attached to the chain.
David's passing was really sad. Reilly Dorman should deserve an Emmy for the role as he truly played a great role.
The Faction manufactured the bombs in the US and by doing that they convinced the world that the American's had done it. Eventually I understand why the Director abandoned the timeline, because the event that destroyed the Archives around the world would eventually lead to a nuclear war.
Jeff said that nothing has changed. But how could the things have changed if the world is plunged into the ice age? You won't see nothing if everything is closed under hundreds of meters of ice and snow. The thing also is that the Travellers have prevented many events from happening. They have saved the humanity time and again.
Interesting thing is that Philip continues to experience multiple timeline at the same time. Like Marcy's non-death they all point to the same conclusion, that what the Traveller's has done has been for good.
Well, it was all pointing to good things until Marcy took her own life to prevent 001 from permanently shutting down the sentient Ai. Grace told that 001 then uploaded his consciousness into the internet, effectively disenabling the Ai from meddling with the humanity at the precent day. That in itself is strange because human mind wasn't made for living inside the net. Ai is, and therefore an Ai should have an upper hand on eradicating the bad.
If there is n new series, then why they gave as the last shot the beginning of the Version 2?
Jeff said that nothing has changed. But how could the things have changed if the world is plunged into the ice age? You won't see nothing if everything is closed under hundreds of meters of ice and snow. The thing also is that the Travellers have prevented many events from happening. They have saved the humanity time and again.
Interesting thing is that Philip continues to experience multiple timeline at the same time. Like Marcy's non-death they all point to the same conclusion, that what the Traveller's has done has been for good.
Well, it was all pointing to good things until Marcy took her own life to prevent 001 from permanently shutting down the sentient Ai. Grace told that 001 then uploaded his consciousness into the internet, effectively disenabling the Ai from meddling with the humanity at the precent day. That in itself is strange because human mind wasn't made for living inside the net. Ai is, and therefore an Ai should have an upper hand on eradicating the bad.
If there is n new series, then why they gave as the last shot the beginning of the Version 2?
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