New writer seeking character descriptions advise.

[Cathbad]

There's no reason to give a full physical description at the first meeting. It may not be very important at all, but should probably come when it becomes pertinent.

MC POV:

The blond man stood to speak. His height was intimidating, his muscularity even more so; but I was more drawn to those big, blue eyes, that drew me in and trapped me...

THIRD PERSON:

She looked up into the big, blue eyes of this tall, blond man and felt her legs go weak. She wanted nothing more but to reach out and place her hands on those bulging muscles...


Just my two cents.

 

[CylonScream]

I apologize for the rookie questions as I have the wonderbook on order from amazon. Meanwhile I'm going to keep writing until i receive it. I do have a rookie question, yet crucial. It will save me a lot of time in the future.

I was spacing between comments, when taking advise and looking thru books for format types I notice they dont use spaces in the books. So I started going back thru, getting rid of them and now I'm second guessing myself if I should.

Here is an example of the scene I'm working on. These happen to be the other two characters at the table with Kang mentioned above. They're discussing they have access to each others profiles on tablets handed out to learn about their fellow crew mates before departure. ( There's a reason they dont , you would think a crew would train together and already know each other.)

Quinn says to Bowen while sharing his tablet’s display, “See. I knew you had short dark hair and a baby face before I even met you this morning.”

“I have better things to do than gawk at everyone’s cyber profile,” Bowen said while snatching the tablet from Quinn. “That’s a terrible photo of me.” He added

Kang glances at the profile and with a rare display of emotion, begins to laugh.

“WHAT?” Bowen asks.

“You look older in your profile, almost 15.”

“Thanks smart ass,” Bowen said while turning the tablet off as he attempts to embed it into the tabletop.

---Or is this format better?---

Quinn says to Bowen while sharing his tablet’s display, “See. I knew you had short dark hair and a baby face before I even met you this morning.”
“I have better things to do than gawk at everyone’s cyber profile,” Bowen said while snatching the tablet from Quinn. “That’s a terrible photo of me.” He added
Kang glances at the profile and with a rare display of emotion, begins to laugh.
“WHAT?” Bowen asks.
“You look older in your profile, almost 15.”
“Thanks smart ass,” Bowen said while turning the tablet off, then attempts to embed it into the tabletop.


Whats best? What do editors expect? The second example might be just the final format for print. I have no clue.

• EDIT= Bad example, The page is deleting my spaces before sentences start, which is critical for the second example.

P.S. I know the scene is boring, I'm working on the wording as we speak, that's why I used it as a example.
​

 

[Theophania Elliott]

Formatting for Writing
If I were you, I wouldn't worry about formatting (for your story) too much at this point - if you're writing in Word, set up your Style the way you feel comfortable - 17-point purple comic sans with 2cm indents and double-spaced lines if that's what takes your fancy. But if you use your Word Style correctly, it'll be dead easy to turn that into whatever you need (e.g. 12-point black Times New Roman) when you're done.

I would strongly, strongly advise you to use Word Styles (if you're using Word) to do your formatting - that way, you can change everything with a click of a button if you want. If you try to do it all manually, you'll end up with a manuscript with a whole lot of invisible code that will add kB to the filesize and really screw up your final document (unless you clean it up) if you plan to self-publish (and any editor you work with probably won't be all that happy either).

Or if you don't plan to self-publish, you can look at the particular requirements of whichever agent/publisher you submit to, and just do it the way they want it. That's the power of Word Styles: clickety-click, and your 17-point purple comic sans with whatever wacky line spacing makes you happy becomes whatever the editor etc wants.

Whatever it is, you can worry about it when you've got a story to send. But make the Word Style do all the hard work for you: the more you screw with your document formatting manually, the more hassle you'll have later on when you have to clean it up.

There's a tutorial page on Word Styles here.

Internet Fora
When you're on a forum like this, it's often best to put a blank line between paragraphs - it just makes it easier for people to read. In your story-document, you'd just make sure your Style adds extra space between paragraphs without you having to do enter-enter to put a blank line in.

Personal notes
Personally, I write in black 14-point Avenir Next with indents but no gaps between paragraphs. But that's because I like it that way. Doesn't mean that's what anything I put out will look like.

Also, if that's an actual extract from your work... you might want to have a look at your tenses. You seem to be flipping back and forth between present (he says) and past (he said). Most books are written in past tense, although there's a fashion for writing in the present tense. But one does have to pick one or the other.

Personally, I'd always go for past tense. It's not as trendy as present tense, but there are some people who really, really dislike reading a story written in present tense. I admit that I'm one of them: I've abandoned books before simply because they're written in the present tense. I know I'm not the only one, because it comes up in lists of 'readers' pet peeves'. But, as the author, you get to pick. No matter what you do, not everybody will like what you write, so write what you like. But, pick past or present. Not both. ;-)

 

[CylonScream]

Thank you so much for your advise! I know nothing about Microsoft word and I'm learning. I have a very low education due to being pulled out of school before high school. My mother didn't have the money for a babysitter so I watched my sister while she worked her ass off. This is the main reason I never had the confidence to write anything.

Now at 45, I'm so intimidated, it causes me to have days that I just want to delete everything and give up. Other days I'm motivated and feel good about writing this story. It's depressing at times. I'm sure my lack of education is obvious. But I'm determined to write this!

I have no expectations of getting this published. I dont have a lot of money since I cant work anymore. Also I have no clue on cost of editing, knowledge of using agents or self publishing. I have a feeling ill end up using amazon or kindle IF my story is good enough. For now I just want to concentrate on writing my story and worry about that later.

Every time I question "Is this good enough? Am i capable of even writing something people will be interested in? etc.". My anxiety kicks in like a fright train and I just want to quit. But my wife and Daughter are avid readers and both keep pushing me that its a good story and to write it. My Daughter is a grammar nazi and I drive her crazy. She has been very helpful and last night told me the same thing about choosing past or present tense. They both have been good critics, but I feel they hold back in fear of hurting my feelings. Although I dont take it that way. Sorry for my rant. I tend to do that at times. A long story short, I really appreciate the time people take out of their life's to help someone. Thank you everyone who has done this for me and the countless others on this forum.

 

[Theophania Elliott]

First Things First
Never give up. If you want to write, then write. Don't let anyone stop you. Many people have the same feelings that their stupid story isn't ever going to be any good, nobody will like it, and so on and so forth. But just think... when you're lying in bed, dying, at the age of 95, do you want to look back on a life full of if-only - or do you want to be thinking, "Well, maybe not everything went to plan, but at least I wrote the £@^* book!"

Publishing... well, nowadays anybody can do it. Class teachers are publishing books of stuff six-year-olds have written. When you've finished the story, and it's as good as you can make it, then you make the decision of whether you want to publish or not. For the first time in decades, it's your choice, not anybody else's.

Using a Computer
There are plenty of free tutorials available on the internet. If you're more of a personal-tuition sort, there may be free courses you can enrol on locally - if you are in the UK, there usually are. Or you can get a tutorial book - one of the 'Word for Dummies' sort (just make sure you get one that matches the version of Word you're using).

Honestly, learning to use Word even to a basic level pays off because you can make Word do all sorts of things for you. (It won't write the book, but it'll do pretty much everything else. Except make coffee.)

Editing
Cost varies depending on who you ask and what you want. Some editors (copyeditors) work on spelling and grammar; others (developmental editors) work on the story - does it drag, are the characters that aren't doing anything, do you need to beef bits up, that kind of thing. The latter is useful because a lot of the time, you're too close to your own story to see the problems with it.

When it comes to spelling and grammar, there are some free programs that do an even better job than Word's integrated spelling/grammar - Grammarly is one I use. No computer program is ever going to be quite as good as a real person, but if you can clear up the obvious errors with a computer, it makes it easier for the real person. Also, if you're paying an editor, cheaper - last time I looked, they tended to give you an estimate based on the first few pages, probably based on how long they think it'll take to tidy it up. If there are thirty errors on every page, that's a long time and a lot of money.

But, as you say, you can worry about that later, when you actually have something to edit!

 

[AnyaKimlin]

My advice is to read your favourite stories again and see how they do it. Also read within the genre you are writing and find out what is normal for that.

I tend to use other people to describe my characters or bring the description into things they are doing or dialogue:

"A priestly type -- a fellow redhead -- carries an end of the world is nigh sign."

"Ian Black, I'd know that arse anywhere. With those gorgeous grey eyes and handsome craggy face of yours I was always disappointed that the rear was so uninteresting."

" 'That's that lad, that Paki whose dad killed his mum. They reckon he's mad like her."

'My gran's from the Caribbean not Pakistan, you fat cow' "

"I admired the coat in the mirror - it made me look like Tom Baker as the doctor. All I needed was a scarf to go with it."

 

[Ronald T.]

I've found that a writer can give an adequate sense, or emotional image, of a character simply by what that character says and how they act when speaking. I try to do that as much as possible. I've learned that the more you leave up to the reader's imagination, the better, just as Cory S. indicated earlier in this thread. It's amazing what can be created visually without giving actual physical descriptions. Well handled dialogue can produce endless images of an otherwise undefined character. A name and what is said is often all that is needed. But if you wish to add more than that, make it only a few precise little details that are unique to that character -- nervous facial ticks, squinty eyes, fast or slow speech, high or low voice, or a clipped speech pattern. You might find, as I have, that the old saying is often true: "less is more". In allowing broad leeway in this aspect of your writing, you give the reader a much greater opportunity to participate.

Just one man's opinion, and what the hell do I know?

Welcome, Cylon, and good luck.

 

[Appello]

Another group of Commanding Officers are killing time in the same café. 2nd Helmsman Iggy Kang is a short 5ft 7in Chinese Earthen with long straight black hair. He has a trimmed Fu Manchu mustache accompanied by an imperial chin beard.
Kang notices a familiar face but cant put a name to it. “Is that our Captain standing at that table over there?” Kang asked.

.

Quinn says to Bowen while sharing his tablet’s display, “See. I knew you had short dark hair and a baby face before I even met you this morning.”

“I have better things to do than gawk at everyone’s cyber profile,” Bowen said while snatching the tablet from Quinn. “That’s a terrible photo of me.” He added

Kang glances at the profile and with a rare display of emotion, begins to laugh.

“WHAT?” Bowen asks.

“You look older in your profile, almost 15.”

“Thanks smart ass,” Bowen said while turning the tablet off as he attempts to embed it into the tabletop.

​

Formatting with a space between each line is fine. Here are my friendly and I hope helpful comments regarding some issues you could choose to focus on :


-Tense. In this excerpt you switch between past and present tense. This is confusing for the reader and grammatically incorrect. I'd suggest sticking to past tense, just because that is more commonly used in sci-fi fiction than present tense. Obviously it's up to you - but the key is to be consistent, which in this piece you are not.

-Dialogue tags. The punctuation is out a few times. Basically, if you are including dialogue tags (he said, he added, he shouted, etc.) then you use either a comma, or an exclamation/question mark. And the next word should be in lower case unless it's a proper noun. In other words it should be: "That's a terrible photo of me," he added, or "What!" he exclaimed.

-Point of View (POV): Work out whether this is going to be in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Whether it's going to be omniscient or close (if you don't know what these terms mean happy to explain or else there's some great resources out there on the web). The description of Kang, for example, is in omniscient 3rd, an unusual choice for sci-fi which can lead to distancing the reader when used for long stories. Novice writers tend to use 3rd person omniscient because it best reflects tv and movie type viewpoints which they are used to - ie. the camera hovering over the scene and letting things unfold passively. Writing often needs to be much closer, and more intense, to engage a reader unless you are very skilled at 3rd omnisc. This is something to play around with and find which style best suits you, but again you need to remain consistent throughout the story.

-Regarding your initial query: agree with others that in terms of description less is more - generally, the rule of thumb is one defining physical characteristic per character, something that the reader can grab onto and use to differentiate that character from others but not enough to bog them down with unnecessary detail. So character A is 'the tall one', character B has a moustache. Character C has platinum blonde hair, and Character D has a third arm growing out of their forehead, etc etc Also agree, as others have said, that it's best to incorporate somebody's physical description into an action (this is called 'tell vs show' which is another writing skill to look into once you have mastered the basics). For eg consider the following:

- 2nd Helmsman Iggy Kang stroked his inky black moustache, his beady eyes twitching back and forth as he studied his companions suspiciously.

versus

- 2nd Helmsman Iggy Kang had a black moustache and small beady eyes, and is of an untrustworthy countenance.

One of these involves the reader in the character action. The other simply tells them what they are seeing. There's a subtle difference and it's a writer's life mission to master If you ever get there, let the rest of us know, haha!

Anyway, these are my 2 cents and a half. Happy writing and enjoy the journey

 

[Vaz]

Make the descriptions relevant to the characters POV. So, you can link descriptions to their emotional state, views of the world, or personality traits.

It makes the reading experience deeper, IMO.

V

 

[tinkerdan]

The formatting issue might easily wait until you do publish. I did standard 12 point fonts with double spacing and it was useful with paper copies for any editing someone else was doing. But when I came around to publish the publisher had quite different criteria and I changed it all to match. My previous was based on antiquated knowledge and use of typewriter and paper copies. With computers nowadays I find formatting the work to fit the actual book page is most useful. Since most of my beta's and editors use word they can do the editing through words edit functions and this format works nicely for all because then when I am ready to send it to the publisher it is already in the publishers format.

That much said as to many new characters introduced at one time. I did this once in one scene maybe half way through the book and what makes it work is when you already have a focus POV character and you introduce them through that character. By then the reader will know that to some extent they have a filtered version of the characters(based on the POV), however they are used to that character and that will help them make their own judgment about what that character describes. It is also important to include only description necessary to that scene and if they are going to show up later you can add to that to some extent at that time; however keep in mind that readers form opinions and you might want to keep it minimal after the first introduction, because you may describe the character contrary to what they've perceived. So though I agree that less is more you might need to be concise about what you feel are important for the story in that first introduction.

I would not introduce that many characters in the first pages or the first chapter.

Most of all keep writing and you can always come back to this scene and fix it once you have the rest hammered out. You may even have a better idea of what the reader needs to know about each character.

 

[JE Loddon]

No more than two lines of description for each character scattered throughout the conversation is more than enough. The way they speak should be description enough, anyway. As long as their names are distinctive, what they look like shouldn't be of too much import. The reader wants to visually 'cast' them in their own head anyway.

 

[Susan Boulton]

At first write whatever description you want of feel you need to get the character set in your own head. It doesn't matter if it is short, or long and rambling. It is important for you, as a writer, to know what your characters look and act like. Once you have the story written, then you can start editing each section to suit the pace, texture and tone of your story. Don't try to do too much at once. Getting the story down out of your head is the most important thing to do.

As regards fonts and formatting write in whatever suits you. But when it comes to submitting, follow the guidelines of the agent, publisher, ezine etc.

As regards to education and not knowing your way round a computer. Don't sweat it. I left work to start a family when computers were large machines in separate rooms. When I went back to full time work 12 years later, they were machines sitting on your desk. It was a big learning curve. Also I had the misfortune of being female and educated in the UK in the late '60s. Girls were not supposed to want careers, a basic education was good enough. Most of my peers left school at 15. I persuaded my dad that if I did an extra year, I could get an office job, earn more money, so could pay him more rent.

So far I have had two novels published and nearly a dozen short stories....

 

[vonHelldorf]

I am writing my first novel of a story I've had in my head for years. I've read through some post here and feel way out of my league. I dont consider myself a writer, yet. Here's a little of my history and why I've finally got the courage to write this story I've worked on for so long. I've always been a huge sci-fi fan but never had the time to read or watch tv much due to long work hours as an auto and fork lift mechanic. Well several years ago I hurt my back and cannot work anymore. Boredom set in not being able to leave the house and I was used to being very active. So I began catching up on all the sci-fi TV shows and movies I could. It keep my mind off the constant pain and helped me get through the day. After burning through every episode of every sci-fi TV series and movie, I became restless again. So I revisited a old love of reading that I hadn't been able to enjoy since a child. Old mans war series rekindled that love and after reading a few more series I decided to take a chance at writing a story I've been working on in my head since as long as I can remember. I would run through it in my head at work while repairing cars/forklift. Now my wife has encouraged me to get it on paper. So here I am. Now to my question and sorry for the long rant. I dont get out much
I have a scene that has three new characters at a table and I feel adding three new descriptions to close together feel wrong. I keep rewriting it over and over and no matter what it just seems like to much. I need tips on how to deal with my beginners problem. I cant really introduce the characters at different times due to the story line. Ive thought about being as vague as possible and detailing them out more later. But it stills reads to busy to me.

Hi Cylon!

Great to hear you're getting that story on paper. Don't worry about how it matches up to anyone else, just worry about the story and the need to get it out of your head (something I have to remind myself everyday). If you've got a bit of time on your hands it may be worth you checking out the Brandon Sanderson lectures on Youtube—a full creative writing course for free. They helped me massively.

In terms of your query, starting with a few characters is a good thing. It gets the story going straight away and gives you flexibility to explain things, though in subtle ways. Are you writing from the perspective of them all or just one? I find it best to stick to one and tell the story through their eyes. So for example the MC could look at the others, noting their features or clothes (as long as it's relevant). It's okay to take a sentence or two to set out appearances. It helps to ground the reader in the story. It's striking a balance between info dumping and ambiguity. Feed the reader as you go. Show them the tip of the iceberg, but never the whole thing.