Character Timelines

[night_wrtr]

As I am looking over my story to start draft 2.0, I am trying to think about how to tackle a certain character. I mentioned in the Kill or Not to Kill thread that I have three MCs. One of them is a non-human. A big part of the plot is tied into their society (antagonist is one of them) and a few things that happen in the past (when the character was young) will be important at the end of the story.

My question is about handling this structurally. Currently, I have this character telling a story in the later chapters to the other MCs that will cover the events in question and to keep it from being bogged down, I also scattered other details throughout the story for the reader through short "memories." These scenes are less than a paragraph long each.

I am wondering if I should start the book in the past for this character only, and then do large skips in the timeline, covering the events, and then getting to present day. The issue I have with this is my other two MC's stories will stay in present day.

I already have these chapters written out in rough draft form, I just excluded them for the purposed of starting in medias res.

tl:dr - What are your thoughts on using two timelines for different characters? One character starts when they are young and quickly ages to present day, while the other characters stay in present day?

 

[HareBrain]

There's the same danger with this as there is with using a lot of flashbacks -- in effect you've made one character's POV stream wholly flashback until they catch up with the other characters. As a reader, I tend to be much more interested in moving the story onwards from the present than filling in the gaps leading up to it, and I suspect most readers are the same. But I'll make an exception where the past is particularly interesting. So what you need here, I think, are two equally good hooks, one for the present characters and one for the past one.

 

[night_wrtr]

So what you need here, I think, are two equally good hooks, one for the present characters and one for the past one.

Good point and I agree, I tend to want to stay in the present events rather than going back and forth, which is why I've been thinking about how to go about this efficiently, without impacting the reader as much. I like my current method most, but I am still questioning it for some reason. It just feels off to stop the story progression to listen to a character fill in a gap of knowledge with a story from his youth.

And it doesn't feel immediate. I really want the story to unfold as he lived it. This is supposed to set up a few plot points for discovering the antagonist motivations, as well as explaining the emotional struggle between this character and his mentor, which is happening in the present. So to me, it is a very interesting part of the story. I suppose reader feedback will help determine the effectiveness.

I know anything can be done if done well, as I subscribe to that mentality, but I also have a few options to do this, and trying to determine the right one is part of the struggle fun.

 

[HareBrain]

It just feels off to stop the story progression to listen to a character fill in a gap of knowledge with a story from his youth.

It'll work if it's well done, as you say, and it might be easier to hold reader interest late on in the story because the reader will have had a chance to build up interest in the character and his past.

Some of the best stories-within-a-story I've come across were in Michael Swanwick's The Iron Dragon's Daughter. They weren't even that relevant to the main characters, but they were interestingly and flamboyantly told. Make it credible that your character is a good storyteller, and you should be OK.

 

[Cathbad]

I've seen backstories done well, referring to past events in separate chapters, but in third person, rather than the rest of the story in first. This had the effect of making it seem I was learning of the character's past from a third party, outside of the story.

All the characters stay rooted in the advancing stories, while the reader learns - from this "outside source" - why the character is/does as he/she is/does.

(Don'tcha just love that "/" ?)

 

[night_wrtr]

Michael Swanwick's The Iron Dragon's Daughter

Actually that whole book sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out.

It'll work if it's well done, as you say, and it might be easier to hold reader interest late on in the story because the reader will have had a chance to build up interest in the character and his past.

Another valid point.

An idea that has intrigued me is writing a few extra scenes from the antagonists POV to toss into the mix. This could be another way to add in some of that information without having to go full story telling mode later on. The antagonist could be arguing with MCs mentor and some of those "events" are explained, or at least brought up in a short reference that the MC could expound later on. Hmm.

 

[HareBrain]

Actually that whole book sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out.

Do so. It's brilliant, wildly inventive, and feels three times its length because it packs so much in.

(In fact, I think I'm going to start a reread tonight.)

 

[tinkerdan]

One thing you might consider, if you are doing something like close third, is specific cues that bring to mind memories.

Such as::
In the kitchen while waiting for the toast to finish charring a bit, he placed out the butter and a container of cinnamon. The strong somewhat sweet and almost acrid smell of the cinnamon brought to mind how, long ago, he would buy toothpicks flavored with cinnamon and take them home and chew on them while reading a book. There were sunny lazy days where he'd sit in the living room on a couch or outside on the porch steps with a cool breeze while buried deep into some fantastic science fiction story, or rainy days that would smell of ozone and the taste of cinnamon amid thunder and lightning while he chilled to the latest horror novel. Perhaps that was why, whenever he was feeling down, he would make cinnamon toast. And craved for pulp fiction.

He stood next to the bookshelf gazing long, while cinnamon sprinkled the carpet below.
::
Perhaps somehow you could use such sensory cues to toss those memories in without having to flash it.

 

[night_wrtr]

Perhaps somehow you could use such sensory cues to toss those memories in without having to flash it.

Good example. Sensory cues would work quite well I think.

 

[Cathbad]

Perhaps somehow you could use such sensory cues to toss those memories in without having to flash it.

If the paragraph you gave is an example, then as a reader, I think I'd get quite annoyed if this happened too regularly. It smacks of the same thing the first Dune movie did, with everyone talking to themselves, to explain the backstories!

 

[night_wrtr]

True, but like most things, the trick would be to use it sparingly where it can give the most impact to the story without being overly noticed by the reader.

 

[Phyrebrat]

It also reads as a boring shopping list and a blatant attempt to cram in backstory.

My preference would be to do something which I think is largely unpopular but which I've never minded (having been weaned on Stephen King); write the POV in the same timeline but dip in and out of memories in italics. As long as they're written in POV it works fine.

pH

 

[night_wrtr]

You know @Phyrebrat , I was looking back at Way of Kings and I liked when that was done for Kaladin's character, but I hadn't seen it elsewhere, at least not very often.

His format was something like present day, then having a timeline shift with the chapter heading of "X years earlier."

His book was also 1,000 pages, so not so sure how that would disrupt the flow of something considerably shorter.

 

[tinkerdan]

I was definitely annoyed by dune.
Having just reread that recently; I'm fairly certain my example doesn't come anywhere close to those italic thought bubble.

I think it is a matter of taste and certain readers may simply not be able to read certain types of writing.

I'm reading all of Heinlein presently and his older work tends to be more tell then show and plenty of pontification; however it still works for what it is and what it was.

It think in moderation it works quite well.

My first novel does this a lot so if this bit annoys you don't read my stuff.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I was definitely annoyed by dune.
Having just reread that recently; I'm fairly certain my example doesn't come anywhere close to those italic thought bubble.

Do you mean Herbert uses italics a lot? I've not read any of his writing. I'm trying to think of another writer who uses italics too but can't (other than King).

I think it is a matter of taste and certain readers may simply not be able to read certain types of writing.

I'm reading all of Heinlein presently and his older work tends to be more tell then show and plenty of pontification; however it still works for what it is and what it was.

It think in moderation it works quite well.

My first novel does this a lot so if this bit annoys you don't read my stuff.

It's true - we accept some things from one that we won't from another. I know I'm terribly fickle when it comes to my reading preferences but I can't see where that came from, or how I reached it. Telling rarely peeves me as a reader (and I do love a bit of pontification) and a hookless opening bothers me even less. Series' on the other hand...

I think it may have something to do with our own, non-writing interests. I'd probably be forgiving if an author listed a load of dance moves a dancer did whereas if it were a football match being described, I'd skip past that.

pH

 

[tinkerdan]

The copy of Dune that I have has all the thought passages in italics. However the thoughts are direct thoughts that are like dialogue unsaid and the most annoying part of that was that it was the primary cause of all the strife; because in many cases if these people could have trusted each other to just say what they think then half of their problems would have vanished.

Also in my example the thoughts that were there are not direct thoughts that would be expressed out loud and usually are less ordered than I put them; however they are thoughts that genuinely come from sensory input, as they are taken directly from personal experience.

 

[Toby Frost]

I agree with HareBrain that you run the risk of the flaskback story slowing down the main plot. Also, if the main story starts at Point X, and the flashback explains how someone got to Point X, is it really needed? I thought this was a real problem with The Lies of Locke Lamora: it felt as if every time the author introduced an exciting new element, the story cut to several pages of backstory. That said, it must have worked for a lot of people.

I don't know where the modern movement against using italics for thoughts has come from. I've heard it from quite a few people, but I can't think of a clearer way to separate thoughts from dialogue or the main story.

 

[HareBrain]

I don't know where the modern movement against using italics for thoughts has come from.

I've not heard that, but I have become a bit anti regarding italicised thoughts being too long and unrealistically coherent compared to what (I believe) goes on in most people's heads. I think we discussed this somewhere recently. I agree that italics for direct thoughts is a very useful convention, but not an essential one. Sometimes direct thoughts in amongst the normal text, and not differentiated, can give a stronger feeling of being inside the character, at the risk of a slight bit of confusion, and might be useful in close third.

 

[night_wrtr]

Also, if the main story starts at Point X, and the flashback explains how someone got to Point X, is it really needed?

That is the usual use I guess, but I also need it to explain something that happens beyond X, right up to point Z. It will be the aha moment that connects both the antagonists motivation and the realization that magic can be manipulated using XYZ reasons.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I've not heard that, but I have become a bit anti regarding italicised thoughts being too long and unrealistically coherent compared to what (I believe) goes on in most people's heads. I think we discussed this somewhere recently.

Wasn't that you and me? If not it's something I often think about. Any kind of sentence-like thought is 'incorrect' as far as I can say because I don't believe I or we, rather, think in words, but a gestalt made of impressions images and 'something else'.

Someone recently flabbergasted me when they told me they think in their own voice. I've never had a voice to my thoughts. It's an odd conundrum.

pH