Game of Thrones: 7.06 - Beyond the Wall

[ctg]

Jon and his team go beyond the wall to capture a wight. Daenerys has to make a tough decision.

 

[REBerg]

Seems like the real reason for Jon's idiotic mission to capture a wight was to give the True King of the North a new ride (moment of silence for the fallen Viserion).
Wouldn't it have been more effective to take Cersei out for a direct look at what's coming for her? She could have taken the Mountain along to fend off undead bears and such.

 

[LilyDraken]

I'm annoyed with Arya and Sansa. I know that LF is playing them off one another, but I didn't expect either of them to be stupid enough to actually fall for it. Arya had no sympathy for Sansa, despite knowing nothing about what Sansa went through. She just automatically thought the worst of her. On the flip side, Sansa did a stupid thing, which just made matters between them worse. I was really hoping Arya was playing Littlefinger, but it looks like perhaps not. My sister went off on Sansa (she claims she doesn't want to hate Sansa, but quickly believes the worst about her), which angered me a little (I told her to STFU). I love Arya and Sansa both, so I hate this.

Viserion's death was definitely a hard blow. I mean we knew she'd have to lose a dragon at some point, but that was brutal (I cried), and Viserion is now in the hands of the Night King. Huge blow.

I loved Benjen showing up to rescue Jon, that was both unexpected and totally awesome. And I truly loved the scene between Jon and Dany post-battle on her ship. She seems to understand him better, having seen the WW as well as Jon's scars. I loved that he called her Dany too. Great scene between them.

Also, Tormund. Just Tormund. I <3 him and he was such a badass, even when he was almost lost. I was all "NO! He has to get back to Brienne!"

 

[REBerg]

How powerful is dragonglass?
Could a single hit by a dragonglass-tipped arrow bring down a wight dragon? Better yet, could a dragonlass arrow take out the Night King and shatter the entire Army of the Dead?
Perhaps the miners on Dragonstone should step up the pace, and Dany should form a crack archery battalion.

 

[Koopa]

Very peculiar episode:

- Tormund a wildling tells Jon to bend the knee.
- Jon says he is glad his father didn't catch Jorah. Okay I guess Jorah has somewhat redeemed himself, but he remains a former slaver. Not sure why they made Jon say that line.
- Why does Jon offer Longclaw to Jorah and not Lyanna Mormont. Lyanna whilst too young to wield it, is a far more worthy candidate and Mormont heir. Again not sure why the writers forced this useless conversation on us except to maybe underline Jorah's arc and establishing new relationship. Still other and better ways to do so imo.
- So Arya is going a tad mental, but even if she took it way to far, I still love her checking Sansa power hungry ways.
-Beric comment to Jon that he doesn't look like his father is only true since he is the child of Rhaegar and qua looks, he looks like a Stark. But since Beric was thinking of Ned this comment doesn't make sense at all. Since Jon Stark features at first glance are more prominent than his Targaryen ones (pretty, quick and graceful less obvious than his stark heritage)
- Weird succesion talk between Tyrion and Dany. Foreshadowing Dany getting pregnant maybe... . love thing between Jon and Dany is escalating quickly.
- Last season we see the dead jump from a climb and rise back up basically unharmed. Yet they can't wade through freezing water...
- Are we supposed to believe that Gendry running all the way back to eastwatch, a raven flying from eastwatch to dragonstone and dany flying from dragonstone on dragonback to eastwatch ONLY took 1 afternoon and night. All of that in such a small timespan... yeah right. This show remains entertaining but you really can't stop to think about too long anymore these days.
- Not surprised it was Viserion that dead. As Drogon and Rhaegal represent Dan and Jon more. Makes you wonder if they will go Direwolf with the dragons as well, and off them one by one.
- In the end Jon always comes back.

 

[ctg]

the True King of the North a new ride

Undead dragon. Oh yes, that's the way to get over the pesky wall. The Winter is coming to South.

Wouldn't it have been more effective to take Cersei out for a direct look at what's coming for her?

No. I don't think so. Remember Cercei has her Undead Mountain, so in a way she already knows that beyond the wall are the realm of the dead. But as long as they cannot cross the Wall, it's all good. No problem. She can sit on her Throne and plot ways to keep it, since everyone, including her sons failed to keep it.

I was really hoping Arya was playing Littlefinger, but it looks like perhaps not.

Arya is playing a game with Littlefinger. She's installing fear through Sansa, because I'm pretty sure Sansa will reveal him that there's a Faceless assassin in the Winterfell. I don't think she's that interested on taking Sansa face and "feel what's it going be like to wear to pretty dresses."

All the things she said needed to come out or otherwise it would have turned her. And that twist isn't good, because she's already losing her identity to the Faceless God. Jagen asked her: "Is this what girl really wants?" and she answered: "Yes."

Back then it was of the revenge, but for now it is because she's belongs to that God. Or should I say she's a champion or a living avatar for her god. One that could possibly kill the Night King as in theory she could be able to wear a face of the dead or get close enough to sink that dagger in his heart, and thus save the world from the everlasting night.

How powerful is dragonglass?

Very. It killed the dead straight and in theory they could easily facet bolts to mount scorpions, ballistas. They could even facet sling bullets and use them to wreck havoc in the undead army. From what we have witness a sling storm could possibly be the most effective way to dispose whole threat and there would be nothing that Night King could do about it.

The dead has big disadvantage in the fact that they dispose and then become skeletons. Zombies are much more resilient as they have skin and flesh to protect those precious bones. I wish Gendry would have made his warhammer from dragonclass as basalt is hard stuff to machine. That hammer head however is much easier to manufacture and there's enough of big men in the north who can wield it effectively.

Problem is as you presented it the mining operation. They really need it to step it up, because I don't think Dany will sacrifice another dragon to the dead. Maybe they could search for more eggs to make a dragonlance battalion for the queen.



I personally loved seeing the North and hearing that there three things to keep men warm. The banter between the character was perfect and it fit in that serenity. It is lethal to believe you can survive there, because every moment out there is costly. Even to our technology as the fact is cold halves the battery power. Machines has to work harder or longer and therefore consuming more resources to keep them simply warm.

What I don't understand is how the brotherhood turn their swords to a flaming models? How does it work and why it didn't work that well on the dead? The undead bear caught fire as soon as the sword hit the belt, but not the foot soldiers. The science behind this is that cold wind dries flesh. All those dead men should have burst flames as soon as they caught the men standing on the rock. But they didn't. They cindered. Some of them showed flames, but it did caught up those other ones.

The surprise to me was how effective Long Claw was on disposing the walkers. It was even better than those basalt daggers Sam used to slaughter the white walker. In fact, so far, it has been ever better to dispose the dead than the dragon breath! Against the Lanister army the breath was lethal, almost napalm like, but against the dead not so much.

 

[Lucien21]

- Weird succesion talk between Tyrion and Dany. Foreshadowing Dany getting pregnant maybe... . love thing between Jon and Dany is escalating quickly.

I pretty sure they have said a few time that she can't have kids. The succession talk is more likely to Jon being the succession line as he is her Nephew.

 

[Koopa]

Actually Mirri Maz Duur said this-->When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.

Now I don't think the khal will return, but i don't think she is truly as unable to have children as she thinks.

 

[ctg]

I pretty sure they have said a few time that she can't have kids.

"Having kids isn't the problem," like Tyrion said. "It's having nobody to take succession that is the problem."

The succession talk is more likely to Jon being the succession line as he is her Nephew.

I'm not sure Jon can have children either as he has died and brought back by Lord of Light couple of times. Including the one in this one as I'm pretty sure he went into the bottom and got shock from the cold water. In scientific terms he couldn't have been able to make that trip, but if you but magical fire in his chest, then it's not a problem.

 

[Lumens]

I don't like where it is going. Perhaps I am coloured by the knowledge that we are ahead of the books, but...

It's obvious that they wanted to give the white walkers a dragon, but giving them a side-show which there is not much emotional attachemt to, was a cop-out in my opinion. Why not give them the crown jewel, which would be a crushing defeat for Deneris, her first so far. She would become the underdog then, and the dynamics of that would be truly interesting. Much more scope for a human angle, and a fight against the odds.

I think season 7 has become quite disappointing, with signs of lazy writing, and weak dialog too. The Sansa/Arya conflict, as pointed out, does not work for me either. (Edit: unless she is playing LF of course, that could work - I should read all the posts before posting). But, as I said, could just be me. I am not a diehard fan either, so maybe I'm just whinging too much.

 

[Dan Jones]

I've be seen the final Arya/Sansa scene twice now, and I'm convinced Arya knows about Littlefinger's deception. Why give Sansa the Valyrian steel dagger, along with the words, "all I'd need to find out, is your face." ??

For me, there's more to Arya than meets the eye. I don't buy that she's fallen for Littlefinger's clunky play; she's too sharp for that these days. My best guess is that Arya is trying to make Sansa frightened (mission accomplished) and provoke her into... into what? Sansa now has Arya's Valyrian steel dagger, and a room full of faces. Hmm.

Hound heads south to King's Landing. Hound meets Mountain. Epic mud wrestling match on the cards. I need to dig out my old dubstep records and Lovejoy DVDs in time for Cleganebowl.

Dany and Jon gunn do some smoochies. I would, aunt or no aunt.

Qualification: my aunt does not look like Danaerys Targaryan.

 

[Mister_Oy]

Enjoyed it.
Expected most of it.
But just how fast are those damned Ravens?
And apparently swinging a hammer as a Blacksmith is FAB training for long distance running. In the snow. Without food or drink.

Anyhoo...

*Stocks up on popcorn for next week!

 

[Dan Jones]

But just how fast are those damned Ravens?

Yeah, ridiculous.

And where did Dany get that coat?!

 

[Dan Jones]

Addendum: don't forget, we didn't see Bran this week. For all the supposed arguments between the Stark sisters, Bran definitely knows what Littlefinger is up to, and I think we'll see that come to a head next week.

The storylines are now streamlining into three arcs: King's Landing (Cersei, Jamie, Mountain, Hound), Winterfell (Starks, LF), and the North (ultimately, everybody else).

 

[ctg]

And apparently swinging a hammer as a Blacksmith is FAB training for long distance running. In the snow. Without food or drink.

Well, yeah, he said he'd been practising. Also he's young, and the guys had to wait on the rock for a few nights before the ancient airpower came to rescue.

And where did Dany get that coat?!

Wardrobe department. It looked absolutely fabulous on her. Ten points for the design. I loved it.

 

[svalbard]

Apart from the massive suspension of disbelief needed on time and distances in this episode it was massively entertaining. No one does action scenes like GOT. The fight on the ice was genuinely edge of the seat stuff.

Arya/Sansa. I am at a loss here as to what direction they are heading. If I was to hazard a guess I think Sansa may find Sir Meryn Trant's face in the bag. Is Arya handing Sansa the knife and turning her back a foreshadowing of what may happen ro Arya? Or is Sansa sending Brienne away a nod to Eddard sending his men with Beric Dondarrion way back in the first series and in the books Jon sending his most loyal men away in ADWD. Is it a Stark trait to invite disaster.

 

[zmunkz]

I agree the Arya / Sansa thing is odd. Not like Arya to play long games, she just goes for the kill. Maybe a little deception to set it up, but not manipulating ploys like the Westerosi. I don’t think she knows what Little Finger is up to.

And why did Sansa send Brienne away? Little Finger said she’d be duty bound to defend one sister if the other threatened her... which I assumed meant Arya hurting Sansa... but then Sansa sends her off. Is she planning to move against her own sister??

Also, if that dragon breathes ice that turns everyone into dead soldiers, Dany and Jon and Cersei are all f**ked.

My last thought: Bran needs to work on his communication skills.

 

[Dave]

Also, if that dragon breathes ice that turns everyone into dead soldiers, Dany and Jon and Cersei are all f**ked.

I'm sure it was mentioned in a throw-away comment by someone last week, after dispatching a white-walker, that it looked like all the undead he had personally summoned had also died at the same time. They also suggested that targeting the Night-King would knock out anyone he has summoned, (and all his franchisees?) which presumably would mean everyone 'beyond the wall'. I'm sure I didn't imagine this, but they obviously forgot to put this vitally important information on the Raven as it would have solved them a lot of problems. Anyhow, the Night-King has now obviously become the aSoIaF "Borg Queen." Knock him out and the whole of his army including any Ice Dragons will fall too.

 

[Gnrevolution]

So in terms of the timeline for the episode, this was my take on it

• The Band with Bastards leave at sunrise, and travel for just over half a day (or thereabouts)
• They catch the wight mid-afternoon, then Gendry hightails it
• Gendry gets back to Eastwatch at Dusk
• Raven sent to Dragonstone at dusk, arrives next morning, whilst BwB camps out
• Dany flies north straightaway, arriving later that morning

That's plausible right?

It does depend on a few things though.

1. The NK is about half a day from Eastwatch (i.e. very close)
2. I don't know how fast a raven flies, not sure its realistic to reach Dragonstone from Eastwatch in ~12 hours...? I've read that the distance from A to B is about 2,000 miles, but that's based on the books, so the show could have 'shrunk' those distances somewhat, although also from what I've read a Raven would be able to fly ~500 miles in that time. If it was a couple of days between the lake siege start and end then everything is good.

So I don't really have a problem with it, see also this Let's do the Math on how long it would take a Raven to get to Dragonstone • r/freefolk

With regards to the battle itself, the wights aren't killed by the fall into the water, but they can't swim either, they just sink. This is my one gripe about the episode. How did the wights that fell into the water re-emerge to grab Tormund. That just broke the physics of wights for me. One of them was blatantly the one that the Hound previously sent sinking, so how did it get back to the surface?

I did have a gripe about the coincidence that one wight survived the ambush whilst the others turned to dust, until it was pointed out to me that if this was a scouting party and there is this kind of 'hive' mind, then that lone one could be there to acts as a communications channel between the scouting group and the main body. That worked for me.

As for the Arya / Sansa scenes i think there's definitely something going on that we aren't privy to yet. Whether its Arya playing the player in LF, or whether her and Sansa are in cohoots remains to be seen but if I was LF now would be the time to act. Kill Sansa. Using the dagger that was given to her by Arya. Then frame Arya, everyone saw she had it. I honestly thought it was going to happen straight after Arya left the room. Could LF have Sansa bumped off? Or is his Catelyn induced blindness putting him off his game?

 

[grip junky]

I will just put a few things out here.

Gendry - I do think that heavy labor, being young, having a big heart or you might say the on off switch. I am not sure how far he ran? With in 30 miles I think it would be doable with an indian trot (walk, jog, run). Then their is Pheidippides so who knows.

Sansa and Arya - I get what Arya did, I do not know why. She did not give Sansa the knife she handed it to her then turned her back, that was a challenge and a insult all at the same time.

Jon and the sword - I can see why Commander mormont could have gave the sword back to his hou