Game of Thrones: 7.06 - Beyond the Wall

[grip junky]

I will just put a few things out here.

Gendry - I do think that heavy labor, being young, having a big heart or you might say the on off switch. I am not sure how far he ran? With in 30 miles I think it would be doable with an indian trot (walk, jog, run). Then their is Pheidippides so who knows.

Sansa and Arya - I get what Arya did, I do not know why. She did not give Sansa the knife she handed it to her then turned her back, that was a challenge and a insult all at the same time.

Jon and the sword - I can see why Commander mormont could have gave the sword back to his hou

What I was saying about the sword, Commander Mormont could have gave the sword back to his house at any time but he did not. So I can get why he would not give it back Mormonts but to HIS Lord Commanders son.

 

[Gnrevolution]

I will just put a few things out here.

Gendry - I do think that heavy labor, being young, having a big heart or you might say the on off switch. I am not sure how far he ran? With in 30 miles I think it would be doable with an indian trot (walk, jog, run). Then their is Pheidippides so who knows.

Sansa and Arya - I get what Arya did, I do not know why. She did not give Sansa the knife she handed it to her then turned her back, that was a challenge and a insult all at the same time.

Jon and the sword - I can see why Commander mormont could have gave the sword back to his hou

Surely all the rowing Gendry did has given him super powers!

With Arya, I'm not sure that's all there was to it, why give her the dagger to tempt her to stab her in the back? She knows Sansa would never do anything like that (well not directly). It did very much seem like she was threatening Sansa but it didn't make sense to me unless she was saying what she thought somebody listening in would like to hear. It's possible she is playing LF into the move I mentioned earlier, but will step in and save Sansa at the last minute, thereby exposing LF's plan. If LF tried it that is...

 

[Judderman]

It was fun episode. There were so many flaws I wont go into them further. But there was a good scrap. Good that there was a few unknown characters with the raiding party to kill off. I almost cheered when the Dragon was killed with the spear throw. Something to help out the White Walkers and keep things interesting.
Dany's love for Jon is a bit sudden. I suppose it is lust followed by love for his heroics. When Jon opened his eyes after she left was it because he was feeling guilty about something? Guilty to the Northerners or guilty that he is lying to Dany?

 

[ctg]

 

[grip junky]

Surely all the rowing Gendry did has given him super powers!

With Arya, I'm not sure that's all there was to it, why give her the dagger to tempt her to stab her in the back? She knows Sansa would never do anything like that (well not directly). It did very much seem like she was threatening Sansa but it didn't make sense to me unless she was saying what she thought somebody listening in would like to hear. It's possible she is playing LF into the move I mentioned earlier, but will step in and save Sansa at the last minute, thereby exposing LF's plan. If LF tried it that is...

Young fit Gendry doing around 5 miles and hour makes 30miles in 6 hours. Lets look at it this way Oprah ran a marathon in under 5.

It was a challenge for Sansa to do her best, and by turning her back she was saying that Sansas best was not good enough, she has no fear of her.

I am curious, but I have to be careful I have been called a troll here, some one had even said their inner Areola was about to come out over something I said. I am not even sure what that means. Anyway why does every one think Arya knows what she is doing when it comes to back room politics. Is that something one would learn to be a faceless man. We know they learn to lie, disguise ones self, fight, kill and all that, but why would they learn an thing about underhanded politics?

 

[ctg]

, but why would they learn an thing about underhanded politics?

I think the point is she's part of Stark family and they've been in business of ruling the North for a long time. I think she has more of her father in her than her mother.

 

[Phyrebrat]

As I said to someone else; if we as authors wrote the events as shown on the episode, and got critiqued we'd be told we'd fail suspension of disbelief re 1) the speed of Gendry's, raven's & Danaerys' journey, and 2) This supposed love that Jon feels for Danaerys. 3) Uncle Ben's arrival.

I enjoyed the episode but by god it took the ****

pH

 

[Judderman]

Oh yeah, good point about Benjen. He was a useful backup indeed.

Regarding the dragons at least we don't need to think about who the 3rd Dragonrider would be anymore (for the living dragons at least). From the previous episode it certainly seems Jon would be the 2nd.

 

[Kylara]

Deus ex anyone? Haha it was fun, but definitely a little of that sprinkled liberally over the whole lot.

 

[Gnrevolution]

Young fit Gendry doing around 5 miles and hour makes 30miles in 6 hours. Lets look at it this way Oprah ran a marathon in under 5.

It was a challenge for Sansa to do her best, and by turning her back she was saying that Sansas best was not good enough, she has no fear of her.

I am curious, but I have to be careful I have been called a troll here, some one had even said their inner Areola was about to come out over something I said. I am not even sure what that means. Anyway why does every one think Arya knows what she is doing when it comes to back room politics. Is that something one would learn to be a faceless man. We know they learn to lie, disguise ones self, fight, kill and all that, but why would they learn an thing about underhanded politics?

Not idea what someone's inner Areola is, sounds painful though

Not sure Arya knows exactly what she's doing but I think from her previous interactions with LF directly or indirectly (at KL and Harrenhal) lead her to not trust LF in the slightest. And she sees Sansa and him constantly in deep conversation, I think she thinks Sansa is in league with LF, so to get to get to LF she goes through Sansa. But yeah, like I said in a previous post i think LF could outplay her here and end up setting her up somehow...

Deus ex anyone? Haha it was fun, but definitely a little of that sprinkled liberally over the whole lot.

Agree the Benjen thing was deux ex but not sure the intervention by Dany was, its not like she just turned up out of the blue...

 

[Dan Jones]

We know they learn to lie, disguise ones self, fight, kill and all that, but why would they learn an thing about underhanded politics?

Um, I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be a gag or not! Anyone who's spent any time around Government wouldn't either...

 

[zmunkz]

Anyway why does every one think Arya knows what she is doing when it comes to back room politics.

I don’t at all. She’s a straight, unabashed, shooter, not at all acclimated to Westerosi politics. When a group of Lanister soldiers asked her where she was going, she said to King’s Landing to kill queen Cersi. That is not the thought process of someone playing games and creating snares and ploys. I take her at her word. The last time she saw her sister, Sansa seemed to have given in to the enemy, then Ayra finds her back in Winterfell not supporting Jon, but preparing for her own potential future rule. That pissed her off.

 

[zmunkz]

As I said to someone else; if we as authors wrote the events as shown on the episode, and got critiqued we'd be told we'd fail suspension of disbelief re ... 3) Uncle Ben's arrival.

I disagree on that last one. Benjen has an established habit of showing up to help in the north. Furthermore, the show is notorious for NOT letting character slip out of trouble by lucky interventions. Most of the time they die, or worse, even when the stakes are dire. This pattern has earned them the ability to have a rare, lucky break here or there... and it actually is rare and lucky, as we look over the track record. Sometimes luck does come to the rescue. The only issue is when it always seems to, or the one time it matters, it swoops in... that is deus ex machina.

My 2 cents anyway.

 

[Dan Jones]

I disagree on that last one. Benjen has an established habit of showing up to help in the north. Furthermore, the show is notorious for NOT letting character slip out of trouble by lucky interventions. Most of the time they die, or worse, even when the stakes are dire. This pattern has earned them the ability to have a rare, lucky break here or there... and it actually is rare and lucky, as we look over the track record. Sometimes luck does come to the rescue. The only issue is when it always seems to, or the one time it matters, it swoops in... that is deus ex machina.

My 2 cents anyway.

Yeah, I agree with this. In amongst all the flak about suspension of disbelief being kicked into the long grass this season, I'm minded to recall just how much excellent dramatic capital GoT has built up over the past 7 years, and which is now being cashed in; I think they've earned the right to change gears and accelerate, headlong, towards the story's conclusions. If it took much longer it would risk entering shaggy dog story territory, a la The Walking Dead. I wish TWD had picked up this sort of pace two years ago; I might still be watching if that were the case.

As it is, I'm content to sit back with popcorn and Shiraz and watch the sparks fly for the last few GOT episodes we get. You can't just dismiss the huge amount of entertainment, joy and conversation that the show has provoked over the last few years, and that surely gives them a bit of leeway to get the job done in the way they see fit.

 

[Phyrebrat]

But that's the problem for me* And also isn't it the definition of Deus Ex?

*[What they've done is be so mindful of coherence and authenticty over the years that when it happens now, it stands out. I'm not bashing the show, BTW, and this has probably been my favourite episode (mostly because of the jobsworth walker who was just everything!).]

Thing is I had to struggle through Season 1 as a bit of a task and the acceleration in comparison this series is a little silly. Certainly the show is now demarcated for me in terms of build and release. I'd rather have as many more seasons as is needed for it to carry on at its own pace. Yes things have to come home to roost, actions have to have their repercussions shown, but it's definitely got the Farscape, Warehouse 13 & Caprica syndrome who found out they were being cancelled and had to crush the arc into a season or mini-season.

Obviously I defer to you ASOIAF/GOT fans as a non fan, and non reader of the novels, but I think in context of us as authors it's false to say it's not rushed, or that the elements of Deus X are no problem. The point I made was we would be called to question over these kind of things.

Re: the argument of Ben turning up like that because he has form in that area before, to me adds even more reason to avoid it doing it again.

pH

 

[grip junky]

I don’t at all. She’s a straight, unabashed, shooter, not at all acclimated to Westerosi politics. When a group of Lanister soldiers asked her where she was going, she said to King’s Landing to kill queen Cersi. That is not the thought process of someone playing games and creating snares and ploys. I take her at her word. The last time she saw her sister, Sansa seemed to have given in to the enemy, then Ayra finds her back in Winterfell not supporting Jon, but preparing for her own potential future rule. That pissed her off.

What you said is why I do not get why the show has her doing what she is doing. She was trained to be no one (not get mad), and to kill people not play games. My one thought is that Sansa is on her list.

 

[Dan Jones]

Don't play the author card on me!

GOT has some advantage inasmuch as it's not the books (and some might say that's been reflected recently by the lack of world logic, and simplified dialogue), and the novels may be able to provide the "unabridged" version of how everything ends, complete with logic and everything. I understand that it needs to be careful and not piss on everything that came before this point, but I'm prepared to give it the leeway and see what happens. It says a lot when a show can toss in DEM and still produce the most enjoyable spectacles and pieces of entertainment we've seen. I think we may get to see something tremendously awesome next week if The Hound heads south, and if that happens, I'll forgive the plot contrivances leading to that point.

The jobsworth walker! You mean the sour-faced one carrying the javelin?

 

[Phyrebrat]

The jobsworth was the one who Clegor threw the rock at and knocked his jaw off and later was the first one onto the refrozen surface.

I loved his legs just being half-clad bones and him dragging his sword. It reminded me of how in S1 of TWD the walkers were basically cadavers whereas now they have been undead for years and are just falling to bits; emaciated shells unless they're recently turned.

pH

 

[Dan Jones]

Oh, right! Yes, him. The "dumb ****", as Sandor called him.

 

[zmunkz]

Re: the argument of Ben turning up like that because he has form in that area before, to me adds even more reason to avoid it doing it again.

I see your point, but then again, the whole reason to foreshadow is so you can establish later events. I suppose it comes down to hitting the right balance, and they’ve obviously pushed the line a bit since it has divided their watchers.

They should have just gone with my original expectation, which was that Jon would escape on the back of the other dragon, which was already up there and didn’t need an ex machina appearance. That would have been epic! But.... they insist on holding off the Jon/Targaryen thing. *sigh*