Barnes & Noble continues to decline - Nook to go?

[AlexH]

DRM didn't seem to do the music industry any favours (especially DRM-protected CDs) - can the e-publishing industry learn from that? Or is it different?

 

[Brian G Turner]

DRM didn't seem to do the music industry any favours (especially DRM-protected CDs) - can the e-publishing industry learn from that? Or is it different?

It's just major publishers pushing on DRM, while they freak out about this new-fangled technology called "the internet".

 

[AlexH]

It's just major publishers pushing on DRM, while they freak out about this new-fangled technology called "the internet".

So it seems they haven't learnt lessons from the music industry...

Amazon must see it as different though - Kindle downloads are DRM protected, but MP3s from Amazon aren't. Many CDs purchased from Amazon also include an MP3 download, and CDs I've purchased from Amazon way back in the early 00s were added to my Amazon account as MP3s quite recently (in terms of years).

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Amazon must see it as different though - Kindle downloads are DRM protected

DRM is an option when you upload a book, it's not something that Amazon force on us.

Kindle has DRM because big publishers demanded it. That DRM is then one of the things that tie me to Amazon, because I have to have the Kindle app to read them. That then discourages me from buying books anywhere else.

So it's just another example of publishers shooting themselves in the ass.

 

[Vertigo]

DRM is an option when you upload a book, it's not something that Amazon force on us.

Kindle has DRM because big publishers demanded it. That DRM is then one of the things that tie me to Amazon, because I have to have the Kindle app to read them. That then discourages me from buying books anywhere else.

So it's just another example of publishers shooting themselves in the ass.

It can be a bit worse than that because whilst someone has a kindle and are happy buying from Amazon everything is nice and rosy. Then at some later date they buy a different device, like for example a Kobo, they're going to suddenly find none of the library of books they have paid good money for, but are in Amazon's AZW format (mobi modified to include DRM), can be loaded onto their new device and if their kindle is now dead the only way they'll be able to read their book is on a kindle for PC (or other device) app. Or they must go into grey legal territory and remove the DRM so they can convert to the right format (ePub) for their new kobo.

To return to the original topic this all becomes academic if Amazon manage to get that full monopoly on digital books - readers and content - as everything will then be in their own format. And they are getting perilously close to achieving that. About the only glimmer of hope is that more and more people are reading using apps on other devices and if they install both a kindle app and an ePub app then they can happily buy from Amazon or any other ebook seller.

 

[AlexH]

DRM is an option when you upload a book, it's not something that Amazon force on us.

Kindle has DRM because big publishers demanded it. That DRM is then one of the things that tie me to Amazon, because I have to have the Kindle app to read them. That then discourages me from buying books anywhere else.

So it's just another example of publishers shooting themselves in the ass.

Thanks. In another way, Amazon are encouraging people to buy elsewhere, as anyone who uses a device that doesn't support AZW files, won't buy from Amazon (unless they can convert files to a readable format).

 

[Vertigo]

Thanks. In another way, Amazon are encouraging people to buy elsewhere, as anyone who uses a device that doesn't support AZW files, won't buy from Amazon (unless they can convert files to a readable format).

That's correct, unless of course Amazon eliminate any competing devices, in which case the reverse holds true; it's almost impossible for anyone else to come into competition with them. So a gamble maybe but it doesn't look like Amazon is losing that gamble at the moment, a view reinforced by this recent news. And, in the long term, that's what worries me, because if that happens then Amazon can behave pretty much anyway they want and charge pretty much whatever they want.

 

[Foxbat]

That's correct, unless of course Amazon eliminate any competing devices, in which case the reverse holds true; it's almost impossible for anyone else to come into competition with them. So a gamble maybe but it doesn't look like Amazon is losing that gamble at the moment, a view reinforced by this recent news. And, in the long term, that's what worries me, because if that happens then Amazon can behave pretty much anyway they want and charge pretty much whatever they want.

I'm just wondering about rules regarding monopolies? I have no business experience but I know these rules exist.

 

[Cathbad]

I'm just wondering about rules regarding monopolies? I have no business experience but I know these rules exist.

Although there are laws regarding monopolies, a monopoly-by-competition is usually left alone. It would be hard to prove in court that Amazon's policies and practices were meant to inhibit competition.

 

[BAYLOR]

I don't know how to remove it. And, like me, I don't believe the greater majority of users will care how to.

There are times when I absolutely hate technogical innovation and change.

IF we lose paper books, we lose something very important,namely a backup if for whatever reason , we lose access to everything electronic no digital storage.

There is another danger which is equally bad. Think Fahrenheit 451 or equally bad, The Ministry of Truth inGeroge Orwells 1984.

 

[Foxbat]

Although there are laws regarding monopolies, a monopoly-by-competition is usually left alone. It would be hard to prove in court that Amazon's policies and practices were meant to inhibit competition.

Ah! Thanks for the info

 

[Vertigo]

There are times when I absolutely hate technogical innovation and change.

IF we lose paper books, we lose something very important,namely a backup if for whatever reason , we lose access to everything electronic no digital storage.

There is another danger which is equally bad. Think Fahrenheit 451 or equally bad, The Ministry of Truth inGeroge Orwells 1984.

On the plus side, thinking of Fahrenheit 451, a memory chip with ten thousand books on it would be a lot harder to find and destroy than a library with ten thousand paper books.

I know what you are saying about paper backups but I'm afraid I see the complete conversion to digital as inevitable whether it will take one generation or ten I'm certain it will happen.

 

[BAYLOR]

On the plus side, thinking of Fahrenheit 451, a memory chip with ten thousand books on it would be a lot harder to find and destroy than a library with ten thousand paper books.

I know what you are saying about paper backups but I'm afraid I see the complete conversion to digital as inevitable whether it will take one generation or ten I'm certain it will happen.

Heaven help us all when evything goes digital. IF lose access to all our knowlege due to a tech break down, It will be the dark ages all over again or worse.

 

[Parson]

"Real" books will not disappear soon, and probably not ever. There are just too many times and places and reasons why people will want them. --- In a related thing, I think that writing in script might disappear over time. Too many key boards and too little reason to write in script.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

"Real" books will not disappear soon, and probably not ever. There are just too many times and places and reasons why people will want them. --- In a related thing, I think that writing in script might disappear over time. Too many key boards and too little reason to write in script.

I find writing longhand to be a different creative experience and a remover of occasional writers block. As a kinaesthetic person I sometime need tactile input.

 

[Parson]

I find writing longhand to be a different creative experience and a remover of occasional writers block. As a kinaesthetic person I sometime need tactile input.

Ah, Jo, Your Education is on full display in that sentence. --- But I do believe I understood what you said. Although I can't say I understand it. I much more creative at my keyboard.

edit --- wonders if Jo will be able to untangle that sentence.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I know what you are saying about paper backups but I'm afraid I see the complete conversion to digital as inevitable whether it will take one generation or ten I'm certain it will happen.

Ditto to my previous post. I don't see this happening. Too many people like different sensory inputs. We still have artisans now and we always will because people like to connect to their history, to different mediums, feel, and smell.

Just pop down to Paperchase and see how many people will go and spend eight quid on a notebook when they could use a screen. Or pick up a paper book. There will always be luddites!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Ah, Jo, Your Education is on full display in that sentence. --- But I do believe I understood what you said. Although I can't say I understand it. I much more creative at my keyboard.

edit --- wonders if Jo will be able to untangle that sentence.

Sorry! Jargon'r'us here!

We have three ways we use input to learn: visually; auditory; kinaesthesia.

A visual person takes information through diagrams, maps etc. An auditory person likes lectures etc. A kinaesthetic person needs sensory input to learn (they're the people fiddling with the sermon pamphlets or doodling).

So to write longhand is a different sensory experience than typing and something some people need (I know when I take a work call I take longhand notes and struggle to make sense of things without doing so)

 

[Parson]

Sorry! Jargon'r'us here!

We have three ways we use input to learn: visually; auditory; kinaesthesia.

A visual person takes information through diagrams, maps etc. An auditory person likes lectures etc. A kinaesthetic person needs sensory input to learn (they're the people fiddling with the sermon pamphlets or doodling).

That sounds like the opening to one of your seminars. Well said!

 

[BAYLOR]

Ditto to my previous post. I don't see this happening. Too many people like different sensory inputs. We still have artisans now and we always will because people like to connect to their history, to different mediums, feel, and smell.

Just pop down to Paperchase and see how many people will go and spend eight quid on a notebook when they could use a screen. Or pick up a paper book. There will always be luddites!

.

Call me old fashioned, but there is nothing quite like reading and turning the pages in an actual paper book.