Star Trek - Discovery - 1.02: The Battle of the Binary Stars

[Cathbad]

Episode 2:

Only problem I had with this one took place just as the big space battle began: The Captain called "Battlestations!"

Excuse me?

Was this total incompetence on the part of the Captain? You are facing 24 ships of a known hostile - and you aren't already at battlestations?

Great visuals again, great battle scene!

Storyline got lots better!

And the ending was the perfect cliff-hangar!

 

[Cli-Fi]

Episode 2:

Only problem I had with this one took place just as the big space battle began: The Captain called "Battlestations!"

Excuse me?

Was this total incompetence on the part of the Captain? You are facing 24 ships of a known hostile - and you aren't already at battlestations?

Great visuals again, great battle scene!

Storyline got lots better!

And the ending was the perfect cliff-hangar!

Agree they really picked up the plot in ep 2. The war with the Klingons was well done. Cliffhanger on point. If anyone had a problem with the shenzhou don't worry about it lolz. T'Kuvma was a badass.

Spoiler

surprised they killed him off as well as the crew of the USS Europa.

I'm still not certain what Michael brings to the table of these conversations about how evil Klingons are except for whatever happened to her by them. It looks like they are trying to channel Kirk's hatred towards Klingons, but it would help if we knew why Michael hates them. I'm assuming they will reveal bits and pieces of it throughout the series. So not having defenses up probably has something to do with that fight. As it was on Enterprise, Starfleet didn't like to shoot first ask questions later and even though we know how bad Klingons are, they don't neccesarily, since they haven't had much contact with them at this point. Starfleet was always about diplomacy.

That's why the Admiral readily wanted to engage the Klingons in negotiations albeit to the point of not thinking clearly. Though it is hard to predict what a cloaked ship will do, if you don't even know about it.

As to your battlestations critique. Tactical alert was a security protocol created by Malcolm Reed on one of my favorite episodes of Enterprise. I'm not so sure the rest of the fleet took it up or when. It's likely that U.S.S Shenzhou had limited capacity in that area, and is mostly exploratory since they seemed surprised to discover that photon torpedoes were on board.

 

[Cli-Fi]

BTW, @Brian G Turner. Can we please have an actual Discovery section in the Star Trek forum now?

 

[Cathbad]

I'm still not certain what Michael brings to the table of these conversations about how evil Klingons are except for whatever happened to her by them. It looks like they are trying to channel Kirk's hatred towards Klingons

I'm not sue it as hatred. She did get the info she acted on from her Mentor.

Tactical alert was a security protocol created by Malcolm Reed on one of my favorite episodes of Enterprise. I'm not so sure the rest of the fleet took it up or when. It's likely that U.S.S Shenzhou had limited capacity in that area, and is mostly exploratory since they seemed surprised to discover that photon torpedoes were on board.

I could accept that, but for the fact that "battlestations" has been around since before WWI (probably a lot longer). Why would any ship's Captain not have his/her crew in their positions when facing a known hostile?

(Battlestations is a call for all personnel to report to their combat positions - which means her men were not in position.)

 

[Dave]

(Battlestations is a call for all personnel to report to their combat positions - which means her men were not in position.)

I thought that it was established in Enterprise that this was a Reed Alert?

Anyway, hopefully going to watch this later.

 

[ctg]

XO's downfall from the command was predictable. The captain is so accustomed to her traditions that she cannot see any other way then through the protocol. She didn't arrive at the binary star system to start an intersteller war. Far from it. USS Chenzov was on a humanitarian exploration mission, when it encountered the anomaly.

To be honest, and in the defence of the Captain, from the moment Commander Burnham started uttering about the Klingon's she should have treated lightly, and keeping always in mind that Klingon's are a hostile race. To me, they are like Russian and they respect show of power. You see that happening all the time in nature, so if we are ever to go out there, maybe the peaceful way isn't the best possible way to open communications.

People respect power, even if they're aliens. Greater power, great respect, but only to a point of seeing if they're corrupted. If it's true, then more careful the negotiation should be. So, in that respect, the Captain made mistake on dismissing XO's action. If they'd shot first, Klingon priest would have lost his face. And they would have opened channel to throw out their insults.

Either way, Starfleet would have been in war with the Klingon's. With Sarek's way, they would have had 10 percent for a diplomatic success. Kahless demanded a victim and the klingon boss delivered it. Whole thing was an event that Starfleet had no chance of escaping.

I love the way how Klingon ceremonial armour look. And I approve High Council's decision, Commander Burnham cocked it up. Poor Sasha. Never happy life.

 

[Cli-Fi]

I'm not sue it as hatred. She did get the info she acted on from her Mentor.



I could accept that, but for the fact that "battlestations" has been around since before WWI (probably a lot longer). Why would any ship's Captain not have his/her crew in their positions when facing a known hostile?

(Battlestations is a call for all personnel to report to their combat positions - which means her men were not in position.)

I don't think she was a very good captain, and I didn't like her command style. Sarcastic people like that don't make for good leaders because you can never tell when they are joking or not. Making matters worse, Shenzhou crew seemed pretty inter-species.

It's gonna be interesting how they pair up Saru and Burnham. How much of the U.S.S Shenzhou crew survives and does Burnham request the surviving members of her "family," to serve on board the Discovery? I don't think so based on the promos. It looks like Discovery might be a prison/rehabilitation ship? So again, not sure why Saru will be there or why anyone would listen to a mutineer. I'm probably way off and excited for the next episode.

I must say again, that despite some tactical problems, it was one of the best war scenes in Star Trek since TNG's war with the Borg

 

[Cli-Fi]

I thought that it was established in Enterprise that this was a Reed Alert?

Anyway, hopefully going to watch this later.

They joked about that definitely, but I think it became official later on in the series. It was one of the coolest moments on Enterprise that happened completely by accident.

 

[ctg]

it was one of the best war scenes in Star Trek since TNG's war with the Borg

DS-9's end season battles were quite brilliant as well. Borg has never done it for me.

 

[Cli-Fi]

DS-9's end season battles were quite brilliant as well. Borg has never done it for me.

DS9 pilot opening war with the Maquis actually came across as way too cheesy for me and prevented me from watching the series for many, many, many years. This one with the Klingons was way more realistic and since we've never seen the beginning war with the Klingons I welcomed it. I just hope that Discovery isn't always so dark and has a good bit of comic relief. It's needs a pair of characters like Quark and Odo.

 

[Dave]

Mutiny demands the highest punishment, so not sure there is any argument for leniency. The Captain was a poor leader and a worse manger, but an XO who can't follow orders is worse.

If the Klingons respect "might" then "we come in peace" but 'if you don't want peace we can easily do war' - seems like a fairly good line to take with them. Why is that seen as "lying?"

However, "we are explorers not soldiers" is clearly delusional if not lying - in their huge warships with all kinds of firepower, including photon torpedoes? And officers trained in hand to hand combat? These are not ships of scientific endeavour.

I think we might have heard of the Klingon responsible for uniting the Houses together before now.

However, theses are all small concerns. Great space battles. I'm with @farntfar though that if this series is only going to be about a Federation vs. Klingon war then it needs more. It also does need some comedic humour, though I wouldn't go as far as the Ferengi slapstick kind.

Still wondering where the USS Discovery is?

 

[The Ace]

DS9 pilot opening war with the Maquis actually came across as way too cheesy for me and prevented me from watching the series for many, many, many years. This one with the Klingons was way more realistic and since we've never seen the beginning war with the Klingons I welcomed it. I just hope that Discovery isn't always so dark and has a good bit of comic relief. It's needs a pair of characters like Quark and Odo.

You had to bring that one up, didn't you ?

I still remember watching a, "Voyager," episode with subtitles (Mum had some friends in, so the TV hadn't a chance) where one glorious idiot had transliterated, "Maquis," as, "Marquee," - I could hardly watch for laughing at the idea of a big tent roaming the Badlands.

 

[ralphkern]

People respect power, even if they're aliens. Greater power, great respect, but only to a point of seeing if they're corrupted. If it's true, then more careful the negotiation should be. So, in that respect, the Captain made mistake on dismissing XO's action. If they'd shot first, Klingon priest would have lost his face. And they would have opened channel to throw out their insults.

This is a very good point. This is why we overlay "Respect for Diversity" onto Political Correctness (To the Daily Mail's annoyance). They had had some contact by that point. It seems bizarre that the Federation would not have extensively researched how to engage with the Klingons knowing they were a siginficant power on the border.

(Although these seem to be a bunch of nationlists who are trying to implement a kind of "Klixit" rather than an original mainstream Klingon power, it looked like they didn't know how to deal with them full stop.)

As it was on Enterprise, Starfleet didn't like to shoot first ask questions later and even though we know how bad Klingons are, they don't neccesarily, since they haven't had much contact with them at this point. Starfleet was always about diplomacy..

Diplomacy is defined as -

the profession, activity, or skill of managing international relations, typically by a country's representatives abroad.

They managed those relations poorly, assuming that the Klingons were interested in engaging them in diplomacy as per the Federation's vision of how it should be rather than seeking to get their foot in the door and then influence them towards a desirable outcome. (In this case, not having half the fleet smashed to smithereens!). That's just arrogance... which again is actually a good conflict driver storywise and it looks like part of the overall plot might be to break the Fed's hubris.

As to the Captain's competance or lack thereof... wrong person, wrong place. Seems like a nice person, which is probably the most charitable thing you can say. Again, it's quite a nice change to have someone who seems personable rather than going down the line of having her as a foil to the MC on every level, both personally and professionally like is often the case in this type of story. I'm sure many of us have worked for people we liked, but thought were poor leaders and managers.

Mutiny is mutiny. Both captain and the XO handled that one badly.

On a note of Discovery not being introspective (I think that comments on ep 1s board), I'd respectfully disagree. For me at least, it has had me pondering about diplomacy in that situation. I don't think it was an unwinnable one, despite the Klingons seeking their 'small victorious war.' And in that lies the whole tragedy of the story.

 

[Dave]

On further thought, Spock was a mutineer, when he took control of the Enterprise (additionally breaking General Order number four) to take his previous captain, Pike, back to Talos IV. He was cleared of all charges because the the end justified the means. Is that going to be Burham's argument too?

 

[Cli-Fi]

Mutiny demands the highest punishment, so not sure there is any argument for leniency. The Captain was a poor leader and a worse manger, but an XO who can't follow orders is worse.

If the Klingons respect "might" then "we come in peace" but 'if you don't want peace we can easily do war' - seems like a fairly good line to take with them. Why is that seen as "lying?"

However, "we are explorers not soldiers" is clearly delusional if not lying - in their huge warships with all kinds of firepower, including photon torpedoes? And officers trained in hand to hand combat? These are not ships of scientific endeavour.

I think we might have heard of the Klingon responsible for uniting the Houses together before now.

However, theses are all small concerns. Great space battles. I'm with @farntfar though that if this series is only going to be about a Federation vs. Klingon war then it needs more. It also does need some comedic humour, though I wouldn't go as far as the Ferengi slapstick kind.

Still wondering where the USS Discovery is?

Uh-oh. @Dave agrees with the Klingons. It's not clear why T'Kuvma decided to attack Starfleet now. I wonder if they will touch upon that more.

 

[Cathbad]

it was one of the best war scenes in Star Trek since TNG's war with the Borg

It was!

But I also appreciated the battle on DS9. I was getting fed up with them making Federation soldiers look like incompetent dolts, and that battle proved the could fight hand-to-hand!

 

[Cathbad]

On further thought, Spock was a mutineer, when he took control of the Enterprise (additionally breaking General Order number four) to take his previous captain, Pike, back to Talos IV. He was cleared of all charges because the the end justified the means. Is that going to be Burham's argument too?

My bet is the Board will give her a "punishment" that puts her in a position to help herself and the Federation (like that given to Kirk). They will base it on the fact that, though she handled it poorly, the results showed she was absolutely right, and the Captain had been wrong.

 

[Bugg]

Just watched both episodes. I thought it was okay. I kept reminding myself as I watched it how bad Encounter At Farpoint was. At least there were no space jellyfish this time. I'll stick with it.

The one thing I really dislike is the theme music and opening titles. It's dreadful!

 

[Cathbad]

I went an had another look at the opening, after reading the complaints here.

I don't think it's actually bad... just unremarkable.

The art is even blah.

 

[Vince W]

I enjoyed episode two as well (sorry @BAYLOR ).

Of course Burnham belongs in the brig. Naughty girls belong in the naughty box. The one bit that seemed odd was the need to outwit the computer. Several decks are gone, she should have been transported to a temporary holding area as a matter of course.

The battle sequence was great. I love a big space battle and this one scratched all my itches (I'm a long time player of Star Fleet Battles). I'm not really commenting on the Klingon's motives at this point, I'm sure we'll find out more as the series progresses. The Klingons being unified by a jingoist, quasi-religious leader is disturbingly familiar these days.

I was shocked by the death of Captain Georgiou. I was hoping to see her from time to time in the future. Leaving her body behind by Lt. Saru seemed appropriate for a failed mission. Instead of coming back a hero, Burnham returns a broken mutineer with little hope of redemption (for now).

As for the opening. The biggest problem with it is that it teases you with a few notes from the original series and leaves you hanging for a bit more and then a properly cinematic score. Strange don't you think? Especially when the producers kept going on about how cinematic this series would be.

I'm looking forward to episode 3.