Blade Runner 2049 (2017) - WITH Spoilers

As much as some folks complain about running time, others about not noticing it, there is a contingent out there who has pressed for a 'director's extended cut' with all the deleted scenes.

The response? Not happening. What you see is all you will ever get (and it was hinted at (but not confirmed I'm aware of), that the deleted scenes were for the most part destroyed to ensure that).

K2
 
I loved Blade Runner 2049. I saw it twice in the theater and I've seen it another time since on video. Thing is, Villeneuve is a very referential filmmaker: Arrival used its time manipulation theme as an excuse to embrace a Terrence Malick vibe, and BD 2049 both in its pacing and in its shot compositions seemed intended to evoke Tarkovsky. The opening sequence especially, at Sapper Morton's farm, felt very much like Stalker.
 
-K2- said:
The response? Not happening. What you see is all you will ever get (and it was hinted at (but not confirmed I'm aware of), that the deleted scenes were for the most part destroyed to ensure that).
Click to expand...
Surely everything is digital now. I would be surprised if they weren't copied somewhere.
 
Wallace wanting to learn of the Replicants reproducing and then replicating that himself was a bit silly. I mean, how would he sell his product if they could make more of themselves?

I do find the morality of it interesting though. Would his company own Replicant babies that are born? This idea replicants being born into servitude isn't very nice at all.

What about the Replicants themselves defending their sons and daughters. If anything's going to be strong enough to enable you to break your programming, it's got to be maternal and paternal feelings toward children. Recipe for revolt.
 
I finally realised what is wrong with Blade Runner 2049.

Its great weakness is that the central issue isn't an issue: are replicants human? Of course they are. In the 2049 world there is absolutely nothing about their behaviour, appearance, cognitive and volitive abilities or their lifespan that sets them apart from humans. In the original Blade Runner they are different: they are manifestly much stronger, have strange emotional reactions and live only four years: Roy's hair is white even though the rest of him hasn't reached middle age.

In 2049 they're just human slaves and that's not enough to drive the plot. Slavery is boring unless you're doing the umpteenth movie about black slavery in pre-Civil War America (and that gets old too). Even though they're slaves the 2049 replicants don't seem to be treated all that badly. We're told they have a terrible time especially offworld, but the blade runner character and every other replicant in the movie seems to be doing as well as one can hope for in a dystopian future.

The replicants in the original movie are either running from death or have been discarded by their creator and will soon have to run or die. One can see the tragedy of their condition. They cling to life by their fingernails. In 2049 they breeze along whilst trying to look as tragic as they can.
 
Justin Swanton said:
I finally realised what is wrong with Blade Runner 2049.

Its great weakness is that the central issue isn't an issue: are replicants human? Of course they are. In the 2049 world there is absolutely nothing about their behaviour, appearance, cognitive and volitive abilities or their lifespan that sets them apart from humans. In the original Blade Runner they are different: they are manifestly much stronger, have strange emotional reactions and live only four years: Roy's hair is white even though the rest of him hasn't reached middle age.

In 2049 they're just human slaves and that's not enough to drive the plot. Slavery is boring unless you're doing the umpteenth movie about black slavery in pre-Civil War America (and that gets old too). Even though they're slaves the 2049 replicants don't seem to be treated all that badly. We're told they have a terrible time especially offworld, but the blade runner character and every other replicant in the movie seems to be doing as well as one can hope for in a dystopian future.

The replicants in the original movie are either running from death or have been discarded by their creator and will soon have to run or die. One can see the tragedy of their condition. They cling to life by their fingernails. In 2049 they breeze along whilst trying to look as tragic as they can.
Click to expand...
To me, the question of humanity still remains. It is changed though from the original where they want life to the sequel where they want to create life. That's the heart of the film. It's what the humans fear and what drives Wallace in that Tyrell suceeded and he, so far, has failed.

To quote Sapper...

You newer models are happy scraping the sh*t... because you've never seen a miracle.
 
@Justin Swanton ; I didn't see it that way...

They're 'born/made' adult, childhood memories are just implanted. More so, their memories are tailored to make them compliant (same as us being brainwashed, yet more so). They are still stronger and have a higher tolerance for pain, but we see how the moment one has a free thought and diverges from their programming, they're executed. They're still constantly--openly--threatened and insulted (like the cop lunging at the protagonist calling him a 'skin-job,' graffiti on his door, and how everyone speaks to them). Even Love wrestles with the brutality by Wallace, clearly afraid...so in a constant state of fear.

That said, I have very personal reasons why slavery in any form enrages me. What most people fail to realize--just as shown in the film--just as in real life, is after all of the crushing oppression to use up the very last bits of a slave, there is only one end for ALL of them...an end they're constantly threatened with, death. Slaves aren't freed, they're disposed of lest they tell what they know or seek revenge.

They face that fear constantly...real life and in the movie.

K2
 
Luiglin said:
To me, the question of humanity still remains. It is changed though from the original where they want life to the sequel where they want to create life. That's the heart of the film. It's what the humans fear and what drives Wallace in that Tyrell suceeded and he, so far, has failed.

To quote Sapper...

You newer models are happy scraping the sh*t... because you've never seen a miracle.
Click to expand...

Sure. Tell not show. Is there anything in 2049 that shows replicants scraping the sh*t any more than humans? In the original Blade Runner we're not shown the misery of their existence either (which is offworld) but we are shown the intolerable briefness of their lifespans and how hopeless their efforts are to cling to life. There's a poignancy, an urgency that is entirely absent from the sequel.
 
Justin Swanton said:
Sure. Tell not show. Is there anything in 2049 that shows replicants scraping the sh*t any more than humans? In the original Blade Runner we're not shown the misery of their existence either (which is offworld) but we are shown the intolerable briefness of their lifespans and how hopeless their efforts are to cling to life. There's a poignancy, an urgency that is entirely absent from the sequel.
Click to expand...

SPOILERS just in case.



I love the original and thought the hopeless and childlike need of the replicants search for more to be spot on.

Yet, I found 2049 more poignant than the original just because it was primarily from K's POV. His detachment from life to anything other than JOI. The growing hope that builds as he believes he is the child. To the despair and loss of both. Finally, his redemption at doing the human thing of saving Deckard and reuniting him with the child. For me, that is what I take emotionally from the film.

Neither are very cheery though :LOL:
 
-K2- said:
@Justin Swanton ; I didn't see it that way...

They're 'born/made' adult, childhood memories are just implanted. More so, their memories are tailored to make them compliant (same as us being brainwashed, yet more so). They are still stronger and have a higher tolerance for pain, but we see how the moment one has a free thought and diverges from their programming, they're executed.
Click to expand...

True. The baseline test is probably the strongest part of the movie. But notice how much it takes to push the blade runner past the parameters of an acceptable tolerance. He can always secretly think what he likes about his job (and clearly does) but it's only when he is turned upside down emotionally that the machine goes beep beep. So if he doesn't discover that he's actually human born (extremely unlikely and not true in his case) he should be fine. The threat of death is not that dire.

-K2- said:
They're still constantly--openly--threatened and insulted (like the cop lunging at the protagonist calling him a 'skin-job,' graffiti on his door, and how everyone speaks to them). Even Love wrestles with the brutality by Wallace, clearly afraid...so in a constant state of fear.
Click to expand...

But nobody attacks him or beats him up. He is treated adequately by his boss (no worse than some bosses I know), gets decent pay, a nice pad and good company. I'm guessing a lot of humans in 2049 would secretly wish to trade places with him.

Wallace is the dangerous centre of power in the 2049 world, and anyone should be afraid of him, humans as well as replicants, as he is quite ruthless. I hadn't noticed that much fear in Love - she clearly emulates the ruthlessness of her creator.

-K2- said:
That said, I have very personal reasons why slavery in any form enrages me. What most people fail to realize--just as shown in the film--just as in real life, is after all of the crushing oppression to use up the very last bits of a slave, there is only one end for ALL of them...an end they're constantly threatened with, death. Slaves aren't freed, they're disposed of lest they tell what they know or seek revenge.
Click to expand...

Replicant slavery in 2049 doesn't appear to be that bad - all the replicants in the movie live no worse than the humans and most live better - fancy being a trashland orphan? The blade runner isn't 'used up'. He is constructed in such a way and given the technological aids to recover quickly from his injuries and he gets time off, nice digs and a virtual girlfriend. If that's slavery then plenty of rats in the rat race are slaves too. The real slaves in 2049 are the orphans - they're literally worked to death and live in constant terror.

Historically, slavery was a complicated thing. The Hollywood portrayal of slaves: chained, half-naked, underfed and worked to exhaustion, by and large didn't exist. The only place it did exist was in Hitler's concentration camps and Stalin's Gulag. It is the modern world that invented large-scale abject slavery. In the past - the Roman Empire for example - slaves were generally treated well enough. There were masters of course who abused their slaves - power corrupts - but one wasn't expected by the institution to mistreat one's slaves. You treated them as you treated lower class fellow Romans: gave them what they needed in exchange for their work but punished them severely if they stepped out of line since they were a threat if not perfectly submissive. It wasn't just or right or justifiable, but it wasn't aaargh! either.
 
Justin Swanton said:
Historically, slavery was a complicated thing. The Hollywood portrayal of slaves: chained, half-naked, underfed and worked to exhaustion, by and large didn't exist. The only place it did exist was in Hitler's concentration camps and Stalin's Gulag. It is the modern world that invented large-scale abject slavery. In the past - the Roman Empire for example - slaves were generally treated well enough. There were masters of course who abused their slaves - power corrupts - but one wasn't expected by the institution to mistreat one's slaves. You treated them as you treated lower class fellow Romans: gave them what they needed in exchange for their work but punished them severely if they stepped out of line since they were a threat if not perfectly submissive. It wasn't just or right or justifiable, but it wasn't aaargh! either.
Click to expand...

Historically I can't speak to (before the 1970s), however, that Hollywood portrayal goes on >>> today <<<. Be sure of this...it doesn't matter what nation, state, or town you live in throughout the world, there are slaves NEAR YOU this instant who face the threat of death constantly, and will do so until they either wear out and perish or are 'disposed of' by those who enslave them. It is not even worth the risk for those who own slaves to sell them (since the buyer might be irresponsible and might lose control of them risking the original owner). As they view it, slaves are a VERY inexpensive, easily found, and disposable commodity that is less than human.

Millions... Millions of slaves face that reduction to a thing, less than a paper cup, every day throughout the world.

The information is out there. But, people don't want to hear about it. So, those slaves are considered a lost cause already, and therefor exist even less than to the world. Seriously, check it out... a little digging will stun you.

K2
 
-K2- said:
The information is out there. But, people don't want to hear about it. So, those slaves are considered a lost cause already, and therefor exist even less than to the world. Seriously, check it out... a little digging will stun you.

K2
Click to expand...

Oh I can believe it. I always find our superior morale attitude to the brutish, ignorant and degraded past (as we perceive it) amusing. If the average joe of the Roman Empire or Mediaeval Europe could see our age, he would conclude we are ruled by demons. World Wars, Kulaks, Gulag, Holocaust, Cultural Revolution, Khmer Rouge and so on.
 
Have they ever condosered going the tv series route with Blade Runner?
 
There is a Japanese animated series based on Bladerunner that is due for release this year. I guess if that was really successful people could look at live action.
 
I'd not heard of that. I will have to try and check it out.
 
I saw this at the cinema last night and it still holds up very well and I thoroughly enjoyed it. The visuals were superb and I quite enjoyed the Soundtrack, too. (although I felt that some of the louder parts were out of place when outside of the city.)

The acting was pretty good. Gosling put in a great turn and I thought that Luv and Robin Wright's detective were really great. I did not think much of Wallace at all.

In the final fight scene, Luv says "I'm the best one" once the thinks she's defeated K. Did I miss something, or is this simply Luv wanting the approval of Wallace as her Father figure?

I really felt sorry for K throughout the entire movie. Joi seemed to have broken her programming and appeared to have genuine feelings for him, but when you see her as the giant neon advertisement, I wondered how much how her Love for K was actually just her programming. I really felt that the world of BR2049 was an extraordinarily lonely place. I also struggled with the abuse that K got for being a skinjob.

The orphanage was very Dickensian in it's look and I wondered whether there was more to it than what we saw.

Las Vegas looked great, but seemed to be more style over substance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Lumens Bladerunner was right after all Technology 1
ctg Blade Runner 2099 - Amazon Prime. General TV Discussion 23
Vince W Blade Runner 2049 Screenwriter Michael Green to continue story in comic Graphic Novels & Comics 0
AlexanderSen Blade Runner 2049 Props Art 1
Brian G Turner Blade Runner 2049 (2017) (No Spoilers Thread) Blade Runner 87

Similar threads


Back
Top