If you're a general, you ain't an infantryman.I thought GI just meant General Infantryman.
Why are people so obsessed with WW2?
- Thread starter Cottencandytrill
- Start date
If you're a general, you ain't an infantryman.
Sorry, I meant as in "a general infantryman".
I believe that is correct - I was watching an episode of Combat Dealers on Quest, where they were refurbishing a WW2 US Army Jeep, and explained the name.
Nobody actually seems to know why British Infantrymen used to be known as "Tommy" and "Tommy's" aka "Tommy Atkins" it was especially prevalent during WW1, and I have heard theories suggesting they had example's of correctly filled identification documents for soldiers as a guide to filling their own in, using "Tommy Atkins" but the oldest known use of Tommy / Tommy Atkins is from 1743!!!
I have always found the usually American mildly derogatory term for British people, "Limey's" to be highly amusing - you are trying to insult people by pointing out that Royal Navy Sailors used to eat Lime which kept them free from Scurvy? So, your insult is, your Sailors are full of Scurvy, whilst ours are not, thus its an insult?
It is amusing that many of the national insults/nicknames used against the soldiers of European armies tend to be food based.
Germans - The Boche - basically meaning "German Cabbage Head" "Kraut" from Sauerkraut, which I think is also Cabbage.
British Troops, esp in the Napoleonic era would often use "Frog" for obvious reasons. "Crapaud" (French for Toad) was another common insult, I assume they found the French for actual Frogs to be too difficult to pronounce - for some random reason, the "Pas-de-Charge" drum beat was called by Redcoats, "Old Trousers" nobody seems quite sure why. "Frog" has been around as an insult since the 1300's, but until around the Napoleonic era, it actually referred to Jesuits and the Dutch.
A common French Army insult for British Troops in the 18th/19th centuries was "Les Rosbifs" literally the "Roast Beefs" because that's what British soldiers were fond of, being easy to cook on a campfire.
In the army, every Scotsman seems to get called Jock and, according to my English friends, those of us north of the border talk Jockinese.
In the army, every Scotsman seems to get called Jock and, according to my English friends, those of us north of the border talk Jockinese.
Except in Cockney parts of London, where we are Sweatys
Caledfwlch
I am not a Geek, I am a Level 22 Warrior!
In the army, every Scotsman seems to get called Jock and, according to my English friends, those of us north of the border talk Jockinese.
I used to get offended by "Taff" and "Taffy" for me and my fellow Cymro's, mostly because I assumed it were something to do with the River Taff in Cardiff, something I had never even seen, I wasn't even South Walian, never mind Cardiff or the Valleys, but it turns out it's actually like many of the "english" version of place names etc in Wales, its the mis pronounciation of the Welsh, in this case, Dafydd > Taffy/Taff,
The misunderstanding or mispronounciation of words has probably been the cause of many a war
Caledfwlch
I am not a Geek, I am a Level 22 Warrior!
The misunderstanding or mispronounciation of words has probably been the cause of many a war
Aye, people never look before they leap, and don't do any research.
I once read a wonderfully funny text. The author, was really excited about his discovery - he said that the Arthurian myths were supposed to originate in Wales, as does the Mabinogion, a collection of Welsh Myths. Both Arthuriana and the Mabinogion mention a character called Vortigern, the dude who's new castle kept falling down, until Merlin tells him 2 dragons, one white, one red are in a cave beneath fighting. It has always been suggested that Vortigern was some sort of High King, or powerful bad dude in the dark ages.
His discovery? The Welsh Alphabet does not have a V, therefore there couldn't be an early Welsh/Late Briton called Vortigern, so maybe the myths or some of them actually originated in England, and that maybe some of the Mabinogion tales were also "borrowed" from old english/saxon stories.
Had he done some very basic research, he would have discovered that the British Language is still around, it evolved into Welsh, Cornish and Breton. The thing is, Cornish and Breton Alphabets DO have a V. They have a V because the British Language had a V.....
I think that same Author was the one who insisted that various events within Arthuriana which are supposed to have taken place in what is now Southern Scotland/Northern England actually took place in North Wales. Like for example, there are things that mention "The Wall" in the Yr Hen Ogledd. meaning Hadrians Wall. He seems to have focused on the word Ogledd (mutation of Gogledd, meaning North) But to have used that, meant whoever recorded those stories in the dark ages, Learned Monks, scholars etc, knew what they were talking/writing about. If they meant the events took place in North Wales, they would have written Gogledd Cymru.
The phrase "Yr Hen Ogledd" was created/originated by the old Welsh specifically to identify where they were talking about. It translates as "The Old North" and it specifically means Southern Scotland/Northern England. Because when recording or speaking about myths, stories, or History, whether genuine real history or the sort of pseudo history that was written back then, such as Historia regum Britanniae by Geoffrey of Monmouth (A History of the Kings of Britain which appears to mix fact with myth) Some of the events described took place before the Germanic Tribes such as the Saxons had annexed the whole of what is now England. So, we have The North and the Old North, the Old North being composed of kingdoms such as Rheged, Elmet, and Manau Gododdin. Not to mention one of the last places in England, to lose its British/old Welsh identity, that identity recorded in the modern Counties name, as the Britons, pushed West, leaving parts of the Old North geographically isolated from other Britons, their identity began evolving, and Britons started referring to each other instead as Brothers or in British "Cymbrogi" which itself evolved into Cymru, the modern Welsh, and Cumbria. (Wales/Welsh are corruptions of a Germanic word meaning "Foreigners"
Gwynedd was founded by Cunedda ap Edern, a Prince of Manau Gododdin In Modern Welsh, the Welsh name for the area that housed the Gododdin's capital is identical to the British name for the place 1600+ years ago, "Caer Edyn" aka Edinburgh.
So Hen Ogledd / the Old North specifically means northern england/southern scotland
All the guy had to do was some basic research - he wasn't Welsh, had likely never been to Wales, but decided he knew better than the people who wrote down the stories etc. was hilarious!
Amelia Faulkner
Well-Known Member
He sounds like a plum.
In Jeep news, I own a Jeep, and when you buy one you get sent this Jeep... coffee table book is the best way I could describe it. But within its glossy Jeep-filled pages is the fact that even Jeep don't know the origin of their own name, and they ascribe to the General Purpose vehicle theory of GeeP as most likely.
If they don't know, what chance do the rest of us have of figuring it out?
The Ace
Scottish Roman.
Re the Soviet Union.
Didn't Churchill himself say that if Hitler had invaded Hell, he would've approached Satan ?
Churchill (and his government) never pretended to like Stalin, but expediency and a common enemy made them allies.
Didn't Churchill himself say that if Hitler had invaded Hell, he would've approached Satan ?
Churchill (and his government) never pretended to like Stalin, but expediency and a common enemy made them allies.
Many companies don't know their own histories and have shredded all their records. The more enlightened employ a historian or an archivist, or both.If they don't know, what chance do the rest of us have of figuring it out?
As for the OP question, I really can't say why. Most of the living population no longer have personal experience of it. Maybe it is due to the sheer number of WW2 films produced, both as propaganda during the war, and then as a backdrop for action/adventure right through the 60's and 70's and up to today. They are still regularly shown on TV. This year saw the blockbuster Dunkirk released, but I can only think of M*A*S*H about Korea. Quite a number of more recent films about Vietnam though. Colour film was just beginning to be generally used during WW2.
As someone else mentioned, (sorry can't remember who) in the UK, you can still see evidence of WW2 in a walk in any town, or along any beach - tank traps, pillboxes, underground bunkers, missing rows of houses replaced with flats, garden railings cut off and removed, disused airfields, stretcher railings, bomb craters. Unexploded WW2 bombs and mines are still regularly discovered. We don't have the equivalent for WW1, though there are Napoleonic defences if you look for them in the South.
It goes further than dislike, in late 1939 the UK and French Governments drew up plans to send in troops and equipment to aid Finland in its fight with the USSR. It's quite conceivable that if the aid was accepted and the peace proposal rejected by Finland, we could have been fighting a war on two fronts, and if Hitler had still invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, it could have become really complicated and we may well have lost in the long run.
Franco-British plans for intervention in the Winter War - Wikipedia
Caledfwlch
I am not a Geek, I am a Level 22 Warrior!
It's little known to most ordinary people, without a specific interest in the period, that Finland was an ally of Germany during WW2, though they only against the Russians, Finland never afaik committed an act of aggression against the Western Allies.
You can't really blame them - When your being invaded by a giant evil Empire, and your people are facing the sort of life they would have under the Russians you take help from where ever it comes.
People who don't know much about Finland, always get amazed when I show them photo's like this, from the 21st century.
(The Modern Finnish Air Force on Parade)
Of course, in the case of the Finnish Air Force (FAF) it has absolutely nothing to do with the Nazi's, or Nazism in general. IIRC the intent and configuration the Swastika is in, as an FAF Symbol is in the traditional "good luck" usage.
In 1918, Finland had a Civil War, after declaring Independence from Russia, following the Russian Revolution, the Russians of course backed the pro Russia side, the Swedish Crown decided to not get involved, but many Swedish Private Citizens, Business Owners, and Nobility gave what help they could, some of them receiving fines for going "counter" to official Swedish policy.
Swedish Count Eric Von Rosen donated a couple of Biplanes to the White Governments proto FAF - the first he donated had his personal good luck symbol painted upon it... a Blue Swastika, and it became a symbol of the Finish Air Force.
This was 1918 - The First World War was not even over yet, the Swastika, in any configuration had not become connected to/intertwined with National Socialism, fascism and Racism
You can't really blame them - When your being invaded by a giant evil Empire, and your people are facing the sort of life they would have under the Russians you take help from where ever it comes.
People who don't know much about Finland, always get amazed when I show them photo's like this, from the 21st century.
(The Modern Finnish Air Force on Parade)
Of course, in the case of the Finnish Air Force (FAF) it has absolutely nothing to do with the Nazi's, or Nazism in general. IIRC the intent and configuration the Swastika is in, as an FAF Symbol is in the traditional "good luck" usage.
In 1918, Finland had a Civil War, after declaring Independence from Russia, following the Russian Revolution, the Russians of course backed the pro Russia side, the Swedish Crown decided to not get involved, but many Swedish Private Citizens, Business Owners, and Nobility gave what help they could, some of them receiving fines for going "counter" to official Swedish policy.
Swedish Count Eric Von Rosen donated a couple of Biplanes to the White Governments proto FAF - the first he donated had his personal good luck symbol painted upon it... a Blue Swastika, and it became a symbol of the Finish Air Force.
This was 1918 - The First World War was not even over yet, the Swastika, in any configuration had not become connected to/intertwined with National Socialism, fascism and Racism
Caledfwlch
I am not a Geek, I am a Level 22 Warrior!
I wonder just how radically history could have been changed by that decision.
I think at the time of Barbarossa, Finland had it's very own General Winter as a secret weapon, so the Wehrmacht would not have been at it's best had it gone for Anglo French forces in Finland. Though saying that, as I understand it, a large part of the AF Plan was to invade Northern Sweden, despite the UK and France not being at war with it, and Sweden had committed no acts of War against them - the plan was conceived in order to seize Sweden's Iron Mines, thus denying Germany a big chunk of its Iron supply. So it's possible that an Anglo French Force would effectively have been fighting on 3 front / 3 enemies, being at war with the Armies of Germany, Russia and Sweden.
I suspect the Swedes, Norwegians and Danes knew that allowing a British Force passage through it's territory might blow up in its face, it wasn't the first time the UK had been "naughty" in Scandinavia.
In 1807, during the Napoleonic Wars, the UK attempted to bully Denmark into either giving it's Merchant Fleet to the Royal Navy, or at least sail it to Scotland, for example, and leave it berthed there, under British Protection, as Napoleon was desparate to get his hands upon it, being short of ships. Denmark said no, and in response, the Royal Navy landed a British Army force in Denmark, which marched to, and besieged Copenhagen, bombarding the beautiful city, and disguised Sailors or Soldiers got in, and set the Merchant Fleet on fire.
So of course, Denmark declared War on Britain, entering on Napoleons side, but I don't think after the Invasion and Siege, Danish troops ever saw, never mind come close enough to a Redcoat to shoot him - without the Fleet, Denmark was of no use to Boney.
And the irony being that whilst Churchill still considered occupying Norway (and Narvik in particular) anyway, Hitler beat him to the punch - so Norway and Denmark found themselves in a no-win situation.
Mind you, Churchill wasn't averse to making ruthless decisions of this nature - just look at the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir in July 1940.
Caledfwlch
I am not a Geek, I am a Level 22 Warrior!
Oh Churchill was utterly ruthless, and frankly, he was not a very nice chap at all. It's just that in 1940, Great Britain was under threat from an enemy led by utter Bastards, and so we needed our own ******* to lead us - Churchill fitted the bill.
This is the guy, who in either the 20's or 30's was so incensed that in the British Mandate of Mesopotamia (Iraq these days) many of the villagers, peasants etc were not paying their taxes, that he was demanding the RAF make an example of a couple of villages by dropping mustard gas on them.
This was also the guy, who in a quiet phone call or Memo to Eamon Da Valera in Dublin said that if he even had the slightest hint that Eire had given any help at all the Germany, even if it was just turning a blind eye to a Uboat travelling though Irish waters, then the RAF would carpet bomb Eire back into the stone age. Seriously unpleasant dude, and I have little doubt that he would follow though with his threats.
This is the guy, who in either the 20's or 30's was so incensed that in the British Mandate of Mesopotamia (Iraq these days) many of the villagers, peasants etc were not paying their taxes, that he was demanding the RAF make an example of a couple of villages by dropping mustard gas on them.
This was also the guy, who in a quiet phone call or Memo to Eamon Da Valera in Dublin said that if he even had the slightest hint that Eire had given any help at all the Germany, even if it was just turning a blind eye to a Uboat travelling though Irish waters, then the RAF would carpet bomb Eire back into the stone age. Seriously unpleasant dude, and I have little doubt that he would follow though with his threats.
Im not sure if Im right about this but, It represents the Sun ? Also the symbol or one very similar to it can be found in Hinduism too.
The swastika was a religious symbol in southern Asia and a symbol of good luck in Europe. There are two versions I'm aware of clockwise and counter clockwise. The Germans used the counter clockwise version.
I remember this from Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out, Dr Richealu hypnotized Simon and one of the protections he used on him was the swastika. When Rex questioned this he explained the right handed version was one of the most powerful defences against dark forces.
I remember this from Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out, Dr Richealu hypnotized Simon and one of the protections he used on him was the swastika. When Rex questioned this he explained the right handed version was one of the most powerful defences against dark forces.
From the wikipedia page here.
Actually they used the clockwise one, at least as defined above (the arms lead in a clockwise direction).
Actually they used the clockwise one, at least as defined above (the arms lead in a clockwise direction).
Surely, the origin of the symbol is less important than the motives behind people who would use it today, many who would not be even aware of the origin. However, I feel that this has little, if anything, to do with why people today are still obsessed with WW2. If this thread is going to constantly stray into modern politics, religion and current affairs then it is highly likely to be closed. Except that symbolism and symbolic anthropology is relevant here (or how those symbols can be interpreted to better understand a particular society.) The Second World War was a very symbolic event, and the images of the technology, insignia, fashions, music, films, radio, and books of that period continue to evoke our collective unconscious. What I don't understand is the reason why that collective unconscious associated with the Second World War is so warm and fuzzy to so many people. It was a frightening time for those that experienced it, with homes, employment and relationships wrecked or torn away; real cruelty and trauma experienced; and rapid social and technological change.
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