Why Operation Sealion would always have failed

[Brian G Turner]

Interesting video about why the planned Nazi invasion of Britain - Operation Sealion - could never really have succeeded, should it ever have been tried:

It also goes to underline why the Battle of Britain was so important - by ensuring British superiority over British airspace, it effectively scuttled any possibility of an invasion happening.

 

[Danny McG]

Interesting. Creaking up from my memory banks (did I read it in Churchills memoirs?) is something about the RAF being kept deliberately away from Dunkirk except for small patrols. This was to keep as many aircraft as possible for fighting off the dreaded Hun invasion.
The Royal Navy was furiously arming trawlers with single launch torpedoes at the same time, their intent was to throw everything they possibly could in a last ditch effort against the German high fleet and invasion barges.
It must have been a few weeks of great fear in the Admiralty

 

[Vladd67]

The trouble for the Germans was they only had barges, a large RN ship pulling a tight turn could have swamped them in the channel. Even if they had landed and made a beach head there was no way they could get enough supplies to continue the fight in any significant manner, it was a doomed plan.

 

[BAYLOR]

The Royal Navy at that time was by far the best navy in the world. The Germans by comparison had a far smaller surface fleet and no carriers.

 

[sknox]

I dunno. I was able to pull it off playing Panzer General II.

 

[BigBadBob141]

There is a big, big myth about the RAF at Dunkirk.
The soldiers on the beaches said where were the RAF when they were being bombed and strafed.
There was not a plane in sight, from then until the Battle of Britain the RAF had a bad reputation.
But the truth is they were anything but absent.
Time and again the RAF meet and fought the Germans, but all this was done miles inland, well away from the beaches and out of sight and hearing of the soldiers.
Their aim was to stop as many bombers as they could from reaching the troops, and they succeeded up to a point.
There were even a few dog fights over the beaches but they were so high up they went unnoticed.
So to say that the RAF did nothing is completely wrong.

 

[reiver33]

The best the Germans could hope for was landing 3 divisions (taking 2-3 days to get everything ashore), plus the paratroops and air-landing division (another 2). Even assuming they had 'won' the Battle of Britain - forcing fighter command to pull back out of combat - both the RAF and Royal Navy would throw everything available into the proverbial fight for the beaches. However, as the navy was to learn off Crete, even the AA defences of modern warships offered scant protection against sustained air attack. In the confines of the English Channel their losses would have been hideous, and for either side it would have proved a Pyrrhic victory.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Yes. Even if the British had stopped the invasion, they might have lost enough ships in the battle to then lose the war in the Atlantic against the U-boats.

And even if the Germans did manage to land, Churchill had set up a whole network of saboteurs to do as much damage as possible behind the German lines. It would have been a heck of a fight on both sides.

 

[BAYLOR]

Yes. Even if the British had stopped the invasion, they might have lost enough ships in the battle to then lose the war in the Atlantic against the U-boats.

And even if the Germans did manage to land, Churchill had set up a whole network of saboteurs to do as much damage as possible behind the German lines. It would have been a heck of a fight on both sides.

Resupply of men and materials would been a huge problem for the invading German forces.

 

[paranoid marvin]

There was never any realistic prospect of Germany invading England, although it suited both sides to make people believe the myth.

The Royal Navy was there to dismantle any threat from the sea, and if by some slim chance some Germans got through, the RAF and army would have made short work of any bridgehead they attempted.

You only have to look at D Day to see that any meaningful land invasion from the sea needs to be achieved with overwhelming superiority in land,sea and naval forces - and even then it was a cĺose run thing.

The only realistic way that Hitler could defeat Britain was by starving her into submission, and if he had concentrated on building bigger and better wolfpacks rather than super-sized battleships he may very well have succeeded. But there was never any way that a load of barges would have made it across even the narrowest gap between Britain and France.

 

[BAYLOR]

There was never any realistic prospect of Germany invading England, although it suited both sides to make people believe the myth.

The Royal Navy was there to dismantle any threat from the sea, and if by some slim chance some Germans got through, the RAF and army would have made short work of any bridgehead they attempted.

You only have to look at D Day to see that any meaningful land invasion from the sea needs to be achieved with overwhelming superiority in land,sea and naval forces - and even then it was a cĺose run thing.

The only realistic way that Hitler could defeat Britain was by starving her into submission, and if he had concentrated on building bigger and better wolfpacks rather than super-sized battleships he may very well have succeeded. But there was never any way that a load of barges would have made it across even the narrowest gap between Britain and France.

They never had enough Uboats either . Though they come up a much improved Uboat XXI. This boat in sufficient number might have been a game changer for Germany.

 

[CupofJoe]

I've always seen Operation Sealion as Hitler's attempt to force Britain to the negotiating table. It had to look real but it was never going to happen. That the British thought it a possibility can be seen in the effort and resources ploughed in to the GHQ line in the summer of 1940.

 

[Dave]

And even if the Germans did manage to land, Churchill had set up a whole network of saboteurs to do as much damage as possible behind the German lines. It would have been a heck of a fight on both sides.

While Churchill may take credit for that, people were arming themselves locally anyway, stealing guns and ammunition from Army supplies and hiding them in cellars and up village church towers. Army stores were not well guarded as the best soldiers were away busy fighting. The whole reason that the Home Guard was formed, was that it organised some of these loose cannons into units that could be better controlled and organised.

 

[paranoid marvin]

The other thing to remember, and often goes overlooked, is that Great Britain was only one part of the British Empire. From Asia to Africa to Australia to North America, us Brits owe a great deal of gratitude to those people who fought and helped keep the war going against the Axis powers.

But back in Britain, there were substantial emplacements all around the UK, particularly in the South East. Walk past many fields, and you will still see concrete emplacements that would have caused the Germans to have to fight for every inch of ground.

 

[HareBrain]

But back in Britain, there were substantial emplacements all around the UK, particularly in the South East. Walk past many fields, and you will still see concrete emplacements that would have caused the Germans to have to fight for every inch of ground.

My sister (in Godalming, Surrey) has a pillbox and a mortar position in her garden!

 

[hitmouse]

My sister (in Godalming, Surrey) has a pillbox and a mortar position in her garden!

They are still all over the place. Often half hidden along the banks of estuarine rivers.

 

[CupofJoe]

My sister (in Godalming, Surrey) has a pillbox and a mortar position in her garden!

If you are ever in the area, go to Tilford [5 miles for Godalming] and there are 5 or 6 defensive structures guarding one tiny river crossing.
And The Cricketers pub serves good beer, if you need an incentive.

 

[Dave]

If you are ever in the area, go to Tilford [5 miles for Godalming] and there are 5 or 6 defensive structures guarding one tiny river crossing.
And The Cricketers pub serves good beer, if you need an incentive.

That's really interesting. There are anti-tank traps in Guildford too (some near London Road Railway Station) and pillboxes and improved Napoleonic Forts all the way along the North Downs. I guess they expected the German invasion from the South, and to avoid crossing the fortified North Downs, to arc around the Hogsback instead. Then to make an attack on London from the West/Southwest. That would explain why it's so heavily defended around there. They even dug furrows in Farthing Down to prevent gliders landing.

If I was the General in charge of the invasion, I would land in Norfolk or Suffolk and attack London from the East/Northeast. I think you'd encounter far less resistance that way. Maybe it's a bit further to travel (and you are open to a counterattack from the North)?

 

[CupofJoe]

That's really interesting. There are anti-tank traps in Guildford too (some near London Road Railway Station) and pillboxes and improved Napoleonic Forts all the way along the North Downs. I guess they expected the German invasion from the South, and to avoid crossing the fortified North Downs, to arc around the Hogsback instead. Then to make an attack on London from the West/Southwest. That would explain why it's so heavily defended around there. They even dug furrows in Farthing Down to prevent gliders landing.

If I was the General in charge of the invasion, I would land in Norfolk or Suffolk and attack London from the East/Northeast. I think you'd encounter far less resistance that way. Maybe it's a bit further to travel (and you are open to a counterattack from the North)?

Yes the was a Chanel 4 programme last week that showed them. They are behind the Spectrum Leisure Centre as well apparently.
From what I've read and been told the plan was to have a line of defence pretty much from Newcastle to Bristol looping around London. But they never got it all finished
The Guildford - Farnham area was doubly reinforced because of the strategic advantage the Hogs Back would have given to anyone going north. And there is Aldershot. There is a house just north of Farnham that has summer hose on top of a pilbox, that faced down in to valley. It is a good table concrete base for sure.
A few years ago, there was a walk organised around Farnham to show all the little bit of the GHQ line that most people don't see. That was how we got to see the Summer House/Pill box.

 

[paranoid marvin]

It's all about air supremacy. If the Germans had defeated the RAF, then they would have been able to flatten large areas to order to land airborne troops, and to divebomb Royal Navy ships to allow the barges to cross the Channel. It doesn't matter what land defences you. They thought that a war of attrition to grind the RAF down. But when it came down to it, it didn't matter that the German fighters were marginally better than the RAF's aircraft or that the German pilots were more experienced in combat missions, because the Luftwaffe's planes weren't capable of staying in the air over England for long due to fuel consumption. They also couldn't factor into the equation just how effective radar would be.

By the end of the 'Battle of Britain', the RAF had more fighter planes in the air than before. It was never the production of aircraft that was the issue, because they were (literally) flying off the shelves, only the lack of pilots to fly them.

But if the Germans had succeeded in invading Britain, it would have been a bloody affair. British troops almost certainly would have used gas, especially on the landing grounds, and the Germans would have retaliated in kind, devastating whole areas of Southern England. It would then have been incredibly difficult for the US to mount any landings in Europe; there's no way that an invasion force was going to be launched from the New York harbours. In fact with Britain under Nazi occupation, it's quite likely that the US would have focussed on Japan.