Need Help With Military Ranking System

I see I have started something here, lol. As for inventing a language, well I slept on it and thought that I don't have enough knowledge on the matter to construct an entirely new language so for the sack of simplicity, I'm going to stick with English while using made up words of names like suggested above.

However, this has sidetracked from my original questions. As much as the Roman rank system goes, its good but why would an ancient human space faring military have names based on something yet to come?
 
ImperiumSega138 said:
As much as the Roman rank system goes, its good but why would an ancient human space faring military have names based on something yet to come?
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You asked what an ancient ranking system would be like, and the Roman's are ancient. What's the problem?
 
ImperiumSega138 said:
Yeah, sorry I worded it wrong. Romans are ancient but the ancient humans from my story are prehistoric, at least 100,000 years ago. So that where the problem lies.
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There is no problem. You can use the examples offered here to create your stone age rank system from scratch, and it shouldn't be just like any system that happened 98,000 or 100,000 years later.

100,000 years ago is about when human language started, FYI.
 
ImperiumSega138 said:
...so what would an ancient human ranking system be like? Any ideas?
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Do you have a language/vocabulary or glossary of words they currently use?

ImperiumSega138 said:
Also the other question is, how would I go about creating a language that doesn't sound like gibberish but an actual real life language?
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Whoops, guess not. Okay, for reasons I'll not discuss here I have some experience with this. To date regarding writing I have developed a few-thousand word Barbarian language (along with a considerable amount of supporting cultural elements, religion, alphabet (which can be found here) etc.), and have begun building a 'pidgin' language for a dystopian near-future, have worked with WWII Japanese Army Air Corps terms (along with picking at learning Japanese), etc. and so on.

Assuming that you have essentially done nothing for your story in this regard, I would make the following suggestion. Begin by coming up with a few simple basic words. Yes, no, and (in addition), less, more, etc.. Keep them brief/short in that they're meat to be a quick and exact response or a modifier. The easiest way then to build a vocabulary is to take lines of your characters and begin generating words for each within that line. Remember, some words will build upon an existing word, or be a mix of two words.

An example from that Barbarian language where it is built upon:
Universal word modifiers used throughout the language are:
Sot: light, minimum, good, pale/bright, cold, slave, none, weak, slow, etc.
Mon: medium, average, balanced, shaded, temperate, average ranking person, few/some, average, etc.
Fed: heavy, maximum, evil, dark, hot, warrior, many, strong, heavy exertion, fast, etc.

Yes and No are as follows:
Ghey: Yes (ghey'sot = possibly, ghey'mon = probably, ghey'fed = definitely)
Tdok: No (tdok'sot = doubtful, tdok'mon = probably not, tdok'fed = absolutely not, refusal)

In contrast you could have a blending of two words to convey a shade or variance.
Toup: Yes
Sous: No
Tous: Maybe

In any case, begin building the language simply using existing phrases you have and then see how it flows. My barbarian language was supposed to sound guttural (also know I wrote it 15-years ago so would not have it read the same now).

So here is an example wherein it is in English, Hamr and finally as written (note that it has an excessive amount of modifiers (sot, mon, fed) in that it is written, not spoken to be precise... gesture when spoken used to convey that aspect):

Emperor Stormbringer of the Outlands;
It is fact, you are not Moragan Hammer. Not even Barbarian that the Hammer know, yet you have passed a mark of time since the Hammer learned of you. 9 years and the Hammer has watched, listened and waited.
The faithful Hammer know all things in life come in threes, and three times three equalling nine the greatest of all.
The Hammer make you this bound agreement. The Hammer will never serve you, never fight with you as the Hammer are free. Yet the Hammer will not threaten you, attack you, or make war with you, and respect and celebrate you and your empire, nine good years and desire you have onethousand more.
All of the Clan of Moragan Hammer


Tem'Moragan'fed Stae'fed'tarv'koft'sot'groth tem da Dachvst_
Verta'sot, du da tdok Moragan Hamr_ Tdok vet'sot Tem'Kref tem da Hamr sastva, pes du dek koft'fed'd'vute tem de vut sosh'lums dek da Hamr tarv'sastva tem du_ 9 kot'feds un da Hamr dek ba'dek, be'dek un kif'dek_
Da kocve' Hamr sastva di'fed de vut'fed sosh koft'sot vut'fed di'ko, un unnum ko di'ko da to da fed tem di'fed_
Da Hamr taub du de'tem pax'fed_ Da Hamr daf tdok'fed tarvma du, tdok'fed targda'mon tarvma du da Hamr tem saufa'mon_ Pes da Hamr daf tdok targwa du, targza du, pes taub targda'fed vut'mon du un zanfa un trupda du un do Tem'Moragan'fed'Kochtraam, to doj kot'feds un quostva'mon du do ka'un'feds un_
Di'fed tem da Tem'Kref'mon

9yearSm.jpg



K2

Oh! As a BIG P.S.:

You need to right off determine what the culture of your race is like. Are they a warrior race, technological, agricultural or whatever. You need to keep that in mind when building the language to keep those aspects which strengthen their beliefs and are important to them strong, those they think less of somewhat weak, and those they are against either commonly insulting or degrading.
 
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And ancient humanity is a type 2.5 civilisation on the Kardashev Scale; at the height of their power, ancient humanity controlled 4/12 galactic sectors of the Milky Way (the majority of the rest of the galaxy is controlled by a type 3 alien civilisation, known as the Arkitects - and no its not a spelling error, its spelt like that )
 
@ImperiumSega138 ; If that was directed at me, I'm sorry. None of that means anything to me being out of the realm of my experience.

K2
 
ImperiumSega138 said:
the Arkitects - and no its not a spelling error, its spelt like that
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Spelled like that by the humans 100,000 years ago that used the Latin Alphabet, or did the aliens themselves choose to call themselves by a misspelled word that won't exist for 99,000 years?

I realize you are trying for a certain style, but you have to consider who it is that is spelling things: The people that lived long before any modern language, or the narrator that is translating the concepts into English. Why would your narrator choose that spelling? Is it a pun where the "ark" refers to an actual ark?
 
As for "Arkitects" its a bit of both. It is a reference to an actual ark but at the same time its also (and more importantly) a mistranslation by the ancient humans after they tried to understand the Arkitian language, their actual species name is unknown due to there being no sufficient "Rosetta stone" so to speak if you get what I mean.
 
You can always just do amalgams of normal words if it's too much hassle. "Stormriders, Redblades, Deathgivers", etc. If those words are relevant to these humans' culture, history, and tech, they'll fit right along.
 
Onyx said:
So you can end up with something like a language with a strongly delineated gender bias in a society that no longer has strong gender roles because there was no mechanism to remove that element from the language.
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That reminds me of a small, mostly feminist movement in Spain I read about, that is trying to get rid of grammatical gender (as you know, anything with an "o" in the last syllable is masculine, "a" feminine). They're going about it by arguing for everything ending in "e", which is more neutral than the other 2 vocals. So a sentence like: "Dadnos lo que es nuestro" (Give us what's ours) would turn into "Dadnes le que es nuestre". It's a noble effort, but not only does it not sound like Spanish, it also feels like an impossible task to carry out this change without considerable resources and a national educational patience spanning several entire generations of people. I also suspect there would be many clashes within grammar and vocabulary, and so a much bigger retooling to the language would be required.

Above all, I feel language cannot be artificially made/modified, at least not for any meaningful changes. It is too organic a beast. It doesn't stack like bricks. It flows like water.
 
I'll throw in a couple thoughts about both ranking systems and languages.

The first step in creating a rank system, as others have noted, is to define the culture from which it arises. One of the first things which must be established is the relationship between military and non-military members of your culture. Is the military embedded within the civilian culture or separate? If they are closely embedded, then ranks in the military may be synonymous with civilian ranks, or at least parallel to them, assuming you have a stratified civilian culture. If it is embedded and the civilian culture is strongly egalitarian, one would suspect military ranks would reflect this (using terms like "first among peers" and the like). If, however, the military is strongly separate (they have dedicated starships, bases, and so forth and only minimal interaction with the civilian population), then they need their own culture and traditions expounded upon. Traditions are extremely important militaries and tend to change very slowly, so some of the ranks may reflect facts of more ancient military life which are no longer relevant (especially regarding ranks and dress uniforms).

The next thing you need to establish is why ranks exist and what they mean in this military. The three most common rationales for rank are to denote function, to build morale, and to reward meritorious service, and quite frequently, it is a combination of the three. The US Army, for example, does all three; leadership positions have a defined pay grade one has to hold to be eligible (hence battlefield promotions to assume a role), and there are a range of "specialist" ranks which allow for morale promotions without accepting a new role. Additionally, promotions and medals are used to reward meritorious service. Because of this, there are more ranks than are strictly necessary to fulfill the roles. The Roman military did a little of morale building through rank, but it was primarily functional. All this to say, once you define what relationship the military has with civilians, you need to define the purpose of rank as a whole.

After that, you need to identify a few primary ranks to organize the system around. Again, with the US Army, there are Enlisted, non-commissioned officers (NCOs), officers, and general officers. Enlisted are Privates and Private First Classes, then there is a bridge rank called Corporal, and NCOs are Sargeants of various sorts. Officers are Lieutenants (a case could be made that Captain is in this category), a bridge rank of Major, then Colonels, then Generals. So, you could say that the primary ranks in the US Army are Private, Sargeant, Lieutenant, Colonel, and General, and the other ranks are extrapolations of these.

One last consideration is how the military is organized. I assume we are talking about space fleets, so in that context, using broad terms and the five primary ranks above, your Private-equivalent ranks are the ones who do the bulk of the actual work at different stations, while the Sargeant-equivalents supervise the stations, Lieutenant-equivalent supervise multiple, related stations, Colonel-equivalents oversee the ship, and General-equivalents oversee the fleet. To use the example of a fighter bay, the Privates will be turning the wrenches, Sargeants will be overseeing the Privates at the maintenance station, Lieutenants will oversee the maintenance, refueling, rearming, and other stations related to making the fighters functional, Colonels will command the entire fighter-carrier, and Generals will command a group of ships. Other ranks can then be built around these functions (a Vice-Colonel oversees a large part of the ship, a Private First Class teaches Privates in lieu of the Sargeant, and so forth). If you go this route, you will need to define your languages adjective structure at least. You could do prefixes, suffixes, doubling of the stem/prefix/suffix, or separate words, but it should be consistent.

Which is where the language part comes in. I have made a couple fictional languages, and I have always found it easier to start with grammar and add vocabulary and alphabet afterward. This way, you aren't trying to make an invented word you like fit a system it wasn't designed for. I don't think you necessarily need a whole language for ranks, but some basic rules and vocabulary will make things much easier for you.

Also, interesting trend which may or may not be helpful to you; languages tend to get simpler over time, rather than more complex. Depending on where your story is going, this could be a useful piece of information...
 
Is it possible that if a ancient humanity existed and something causes them to regress back to the stone age humanity, then over thousands of years they re-evolve into us, modern Humanity...well, what I'm speculating is would it not be possible that the same species would over time return to what they were before. Most importantly, their language to. What I'm trying to say is, is it not possible that ancient humanity developed English then we as modern humans simply rediscovered the language without knowing it. Could that not be possible? I hope I've explained it right. I hope its not too confusing?
 
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