Review: Pushing Ice by Alastair Reynolds

[Onyx]

I wasn't. I had a problem with this in numerous places in the book.

I was referring to Vertigo's review:

In particular the behaviour of one of the main characters is so appalling that I simply found their actions and motivations utterly implausible though possibly not as much as the way everyone else just quietly goes along with that behaviour.

 

[Ursa major]

And...?

The point is that the handling of the characters was poor in many places in the book, so even if you were correct in saying that the example you mention is not one of them -- and I don't recall feeling that generous to the author when I read that section -- it does not mean that accusation of poor charater handling has been rebutted.

The review is of the whole book, not one small part of it.

 

[Onyx]

And...?

The point is that the handling of the characters was poor in many places in the book, so even if you were correct in saying that the example you mention is not one of them -- and I don't recall feeling that generous to the author when I read that section -- it does not mean that accusation of poor charater handling has been rebutted.

The review is of the whole book, not one small part of it.

I didn't attempt to rebut it.


So...?

 

[Ursa major]

In that particular case, you are saying that the handling of the characters is not badly done (and giving a reason why you are saying it). That falls under the definition of rebuttal.

And I said that, whether or not you have a case on that point (and I don't believe you do, but that is a matter of opinion), it does not mean that the rest of the book is free of that flaw (which it isn't).

I have already spelt all of this out, so why the "So...?"

 

[Onyx]

In that particular case, you are saying that the handling of the characters is not badly done (and giving a reason why you are saying it). That falls under the definition of rebuttal.

And I said that, whether or not you have a case on that point (and I don't believe you do, but that is a matter of opinion), it does not mean that the rest of the book is free of that flaw (which it isn't).

I have already spelt all of this out, so why the "So...?"

So... did you read all the other posts I made specifically about what you're saying I've rebutted?

Reynolds is clumsy when it comes to character's interactions,

Reynolds is not a perfect writer by any stretch. His dialogue and characters often are lacking.

All of his work is flawed

I made a comment about a specific interaction in the book, and you seem to be really stuck on that comment being a rebuttal of matters outside that particular item. Given everything I've said in the thread, I don't follow why you keep raising it as an issue. It clearly isn't any sort of rebuttal of your post as you and I agree about Reynold's faults. I'm not sure what I need to do to convince you that there is no "And?"

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Rather ironically given that this is 2018, we're going back 50 years to when most SF books were written about science or science extrapolation not people in an extrapolated milieu. The history of SF could so easily be re-cast as the history of male writers who don't understand people and why people do things.

 

[Vertigo]

Since we're specifically talking about the

Spoiler

coup

that takes place, I have to say that while the one character's actions were seemingly extreme, the assent of the crew that supports that action is not outlandish. Scapegoating is a real group dynamic, and easy to go along with when that seems to be the way the tide is running.

Spoiler

My biggest issue was putting Bella in solitary confinement for over 13 years - that is plain and simple torture for such a long period of time. During that time the only person who actually spoke to her was the doctor on his rare visits. The people taking her supplies were forbidden from talking to her. I don't believe she would have remained sane under such conditions (confined to one small structure) and everyone was fully aware of the situation. I simply don't believe that it would have been done and considered acceptable. You say it was exceptional circumstances but it was not a war - only three people had been killed, one murdered and two punished for that murder. The really annoying thing is the plot did not even require such extreme punishment. If Bella had been kept under house arrest but closer to the main settlement and under much more humane conditions that would have worked equally well. Svetlana's entire motivations and behaviour were exaggerated to utterly implausible obscene levels.

 

[Ursa major]

Spoiler

My biggest issue was putting Bella in solitary confinement for over 13 years - that is plain and simple torture for such a long period of time. During that time the only person who actually spoke to her was the doctor on his rare visits. The people taking her supplies were forbidden from talking to her. I don't believe she would have remained sane under such conditions (confined to one small structure) and everyone was fully aware of the situation. I simply don't believe that it would have been done and considered acceptable.

I had forgotten about that aspect of the story... but agree with your conclusion about the likely impact on that character.