Meat cultures gets US approval as food

[awesomesauce]

Though I suspect rarely discussed, good or bad subjective, if/once it happens, you can expect a whole host of species to become extinct. Their cost will become so excessive that only the most wealthy will be able to afford 'natural meats/fish/fowl,' and I suspect you'll even see wild species perish few seeing the need to devote funds to protecting them.

I'm not following your logic. Why would shifting our food sources away from farm raised animals suddenly cause us to no longer think it's important to protect wildlife?

 

[awesomesauce]

Nature very rarely finds an inefficient way of doing things. Witness how much less expensive it is to raise a pound of grazing buffalo than grain fed beef.

I don't think it's less expensive to produce an equal quantity of meat from grazing buffalo rather than grain fed cattle, and I would like to know how you reached that conclusion. If it were less expensive, I'd expect the shelves to be full of buffalo while the beef would be in the expensive exotic meats section. And this is most definitely not the case.

Nature usually finds inefficient ways of doing things. Witness the human eye, which has the nerves in front of the retina, rather than behind. No human camera designer would put the wires in front of the CCD, because it would be insane.

Yeah, nature generally hits on something that works well enough for an organism not to die out. Eventually it may evolve a more efficient way of doing a thing and then those organisms have an advantage over less efficient organisms. But the statement "Nature very rarely finds an inefficient way of doing things" itself, in the context of the most efficient food supply for humans, doesn't make sense. In nature, the "objective" is to grow an organism capable of surviving and reproducing itself, not a tasty steak or a rasher of bacon for some other organism to eat. The domestic animals and plants we farm for food now, and the tools and techniques we use, aren't the result of nature. They're already the product of centuries of genetic manipulation and technological intervention by humans.

Genetic Manipulation: The First 50,000 Years

Genetically modified plants and animals are often feared as "Frankenfoods," but is there really anything dangerously new about manipulation of DNA? People

io9.gizmodo.com

 

[awesomesauce]

And more about this today about developments in the UK:

Artificial meat: UK scientists growing 'bacon' in labs

Researchers have grown animal cells on blades of grass - could a slaughter-free bacon supply be feasible?

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm so all for this.

 

[Cathbad]

mmmmm bacon!!

 

[-K2-]

I'm not following your logic. Why would shifting our food sources away from farm raised animals suddenly cause us to no longer think it's important to protect wildlife?

In the U.S., government lands, research, conservation and protection devoted to wildlife and the outdoors, is for the most part, paid for by a tax (demanded by hunters and fisherman) on hunting and fishing equipment... known as the Pittman–Robertson and Dingell–Johnson Acts, respectively. Further, contributions by hunters and fisherman (federal and state applied), as well as license sales at state levels, also adds to that.

In other words, all of those VAST lands the U.S. has for ALL types of outdoors recreation, the vast personnel and resources from wildlife biologists down to outhouse cleaners, and the expensive efforts to protect, manage, maintain and propagate anything 'wild', plants and insects included... comes from hunters and fisherman.

Those acts were demanded 'by them, H&F,' when lands, waters, wildlife and natural resources were nearing extinction and habitats damaged beyond repair, because the 'average joe' just doesn't care about something if they aren't directly using it. Naturally, that fight also extends to industry, mining, corporate farming, and energy exploration acquiring access rights to federal and state owned... hence-- citizenry owned lands and natural resources are fought for and protected by sportsman. Though there are 'preservation groups,' they're typically much less effective (tending to be vastly overreaching) than outdoors 'conservation' groups and individuals. There is a vast difference between preservation and conservation.

In any case, once people's tastes or perhaps needs shift away from actual animal/poultry/fish products... then the call will go out as it even is today, for there to be an end of hunting and fishing as sporting activities. Once sporting activities legally end, then the funding for protections and growth, including public lands accessible by all will 'end.'

Naturally, there will be those few less-ethical outdoorsman that will continue doing what they desire, however, now unchecked... Yet, they will not be the end of wildlife.

When the general population, just as they have routinely demonstrated many times in the past, is given the option of 'paying' to keep up with those programs, or let 'industry' bear the expense and benefit/use (no doubt with bogus claims of 'trickle down' residual reductions to citizen taxes that will never come)... it will by proven 'human nature' play out as it always has.

And the natural resources and wildlife of this nation will rapidly perish... as industry claws for pennies today having no concern for tomorrow.

K2

 

[Robert Zwilling]

The connective material and fat that needs to be added increases the output by diluting the lean muscle product possibly decreasing the cost. If the price could be made low enough then it wouldn't matter if people who are eating whatever kind of meat they want to, want to eat it or not. There are a lot of people having trouble getting enough/any meat right now.

One place where the hunters aren't always helping is knocking off the best genetic specimens instead of the stragglers and weaker animals the way natural predators behave.

 

[-K2-]

One place where the hunters aren't always helping is knocking off the best genetic specimens instead of the stragglers and weaker animals the way natural predators behave.

Though well off topic (so best discussed elsewhere), all I can do is suggest you investigate that a bit more. Laws and sportsman's goals often counter that argument. Yes, they celebrate trophy animals and fish, yet for the most part, their efforts are focused toward more noble ends.

K2

 

[Parson]

I don't think it's less expensive to produce an equal quantity of meat from grazing buffalo rather than grain fed cattle, and I would like to know how you reached that conclusion. If it were less expensive, I'd expect the shelves to be full of buffalo while the beef would be in the expensive exotic meats section. And this is most definitely not the case.

There are several issues to be considered. One: Buffalo are wild animals and can survive very nicely without human intervention, grain fed cattle need constant care and veterinary services ergo more expensive. Two: Buffalo need lots of space to roam to feed themselves so they do not work well in places where many humans have settled. Three: Buffalo are very difficult to corral to add to the difficulty in feeding them. Four: Some people (Many?) do not like the "gamey" taste of Buffalo and much prefer domesticated cattle as the source of their meat. --- So not widely sourced for meat.

 

[Danny McG]

Buffalo need lots of space to roam

Is that the same space where deer and antelopes play?

 

[Cathbad]

RANGE WAR!!!

 

[-K2-]

Here, a short clip for you

Hmm, the quality really degraded. Oh well, maybe I'll just stick to posting stills

K2

 

[Parson]

Here, a short clip for you

Hmm, the quality really degraded. Oh well, maybe I'll just stick to posting stills

K2

Yikes! Those must be the fabled Yellowstone Buffalo who have learned to ignore people. I can assure you that the bull could do real damage to the car .... up to and including rolling it. Just because an "American Bison" is acting as calm as that doesn't mean that things couldn't change in a moment. I'll watch my buffalo at a safe distance. Thank you very much.

 

[-K2-]

Yikes! Those must be the fabled Yellowstone Buffalo who have learned to ignore people. I can assure you that the bull could do real damage to the car .... up to and including rolling it. Just because an "American Bison" is acting as calm as that doesn't mean that things couldn't change in a moment. I'll watch my buffalo at a safe distance. Thank you very much.

Actually, those are Custer S.P. South Dakota Bison. There were roughly a hundred around us. I'll spare you the balance of my self-destructive antics that day... I will ride one of them stinkin' bassids yet though!

K2

 

[Montero]

Just to highlight that certainly in the UK, there are wild bird species that rely on grass being neatly cropped by sheep, as they are looking for worms and leatherjackets and the like, and would struggle to find them in long grass. Whatever happens, I hope it is done with joined up thinking, with accurate data including ecological data on life cycles and decisions are not made in five minutes and based on simplistic sound bites. Once again, there is no one-size-fits all solution. If the fields that are currently cropped by sheep were converted to raising monocultures of vegetables, it might remove important habitats for birds and indeed other wildlife.

By the way, there is a fascinating book that came out last year "Wilding: The return of nature to a British farm" by Isabella Tree - where she and her husband were running a large estate, farming with the maximum modern efficiency, adopting the latest best practice - and year on year failing to make a profit. Part of this was that their land was middling, not top grade. The book is an account of where they started from and how they changed their farming practice - not least selling almost all of their modern farm machinery - which was a massive saving in fuel bills and capital investment, as well as a big reduction in greenhouse gas production. They were then farming much more with nature, not against it and saw a wonderful increase in wildlife without making any special provisions for the wildlife as well as starting to make a profit. More of this would be a good idea too.

 

[Montero]

Regarding Bison - that clip - so bull following cow and making rumblings. If Bison are anything like cattle, perhaps the cow was smelling like she was coming on heat and the bull had other things on mind than teaching humans a lesson....

 

[-K2-]

Regarding Bison - that clip - so bull following cow and making rumblings. If Bison are anything like cattle, perhaps the cow was smelling like she was coming on heat and the bull had other things on mind than teaching humans a lesson....

Exactly the opposite (though not humans specifically). During that season they want to fight. Who, what, no matter. BTW, their hair is very soft contrary to the classic well-used rug of a bear which is very coarse. Our bear rugs are used for show, our buffalo hides for... reclining.

Just sayin'

K2

 

[Robert Zwilling]

The choice between meatless vs lab grown or clean meat alternatives seems to be a question answered by what is offered by the food services. I think if the products are offered as just another kind of food and not marketed as anti traditional meat, their usage would progress a lot faster. There are a lot more people eating both meat and meatless grain based products than people who are not eating any meat. There are also plenty of people who are restricted by the amount the meat cost, not by their beliefs. This survey while not perfect shows a big disconnect between American attitudes and India and China. If an eighth of the world's population is interested in alternatives to traditional meat the question of it's large scale production might be answered sooner than later. The plant based stuff isn't really cheaper, which is disappointing. Getting a foothold in the market would seem more important than making big profits at the start of something that isn't going away. The survey also didn't look at Africa or South America.
Meat Alternatives Survey for US, India, China
McDonalds marketing Vegan in Europe not in US

 

[Brian G Turner]

The process of developing artificial meat is improving:

Lab-grown meat: Researchers grow muscle cells on edible fibers

Lab-grown or cultured meat could revolutionize food production, providing a greener, more sustainable, more ethical alternative to large-scale meat production. But getting lab-grown meat from the petri dish to the dinner plate requires solving several major problems, including how to make large...

phys.org

Along with the discussion on superfoods from cockroaches, I can see a future where synthetic foods become increasingly normalized and common.

 

[Foxbat]

This all gets very confusing. Scientists keep telling us eating too much red meat is bad for you and could be carcinogenic and we should limit our intake. Now they're tantalising us with the possibility of an almost limitless supply of the stuff.

 

[thaddeus6th]

A while ago, I forget where, I read of some interesting religious disagreements over whether this sort of meat would be considered forbidden under Jewish/Islamic dietary restrictions.

It's an intriguing point to consider.