Game of Thrones: 8.01 - Winterfell

[REBerg]

I noticed the advance of the blue tiles to a structure, but not its identity. Looks like WInterfell is next in line.

 

[ctg]

When I began writing about Game of Thrones, my colleagues’ thoughts leapt to the spymaster Lord Varys, or the schemer Littlefinger, who is what we might today call an operations planner. Both are masters of intrigue. But the spy’s reports and the schemer’s plots are not, by themselves, intelligence.

No, the purpose of intelligence is to inform better decisions. The role of the intelligence officer is to facilitate the decision-maker’s understanding, to cohere the incoherent. In Game of Thrones, this function is fulfilled by the order of maesters, those guys who wear the chains around their necks and advise the scheming lords and ladies of Westeros. Their chain symbolizes their service to the realm itself—a refreshingly modern concept—over any individual lord, literally binding them to the idea of service to country over politics.

Take Maester Luwin of Winterfell, most trusted advisor to the ruling Stark family, who watches the usurper Theon Greyjoy murder the remaining Stark children and steal their ancestral home. “I will not claim to bear you any great love,” Luwin tells Greyjoy, “but I cannot hate you either. Even if I did, so long as you hold Winterfell, I am bound by oath to give you counsel.” Luwin literally raised the children he witnessed Theon kill, yet hewed to his duty to provide sound counsel.

What ‘Game of Thrones’ Teaches Us About Intelligence

I noticed the advance of the blue tiles to a structure, but not its identity. Looks like WInterfell is next in line.

I only thought that as the advance of winter. Nothing else. With the dragon he could anywhere. And besides the point, nobody has connected the black hole sun (ancient symbol and a geosymbol) to NightKing. He could already have visited Kings Landing.

 

[The Big Peat]

I was only whelmed. A lot of set-up, not a lot of pay out.

 

[Narkalui]

Happy Thought Number 1: Dolorous Edd is still alive!

 

[Mr Orange]

I was only whelmed. A lot of set-up, not a lot of pay out.

I agree. definitely a setup episode. hopefully we'll be rewarded with pay out next week.

a couple of questions that came up for me during the episode:

with the Golden Company arriving, will we see either of the Griff's making an appearance?

was Jon's face after Sam told him his true identity because he was thinking "okay... now i'm king of the 7 kingdoms", or because he was thinking "oh... Aunty Daenerys?"?

also, from memory the Golden Company was formed by a Targaryen? I wonder if this will have any impact on their actions in the fights to come

 

[The Big Peat]

A legitimised Targaryen *******, yes. I'd personally assume they'd have referenced this or a Griff if they'd meant to use that in the TV series by now, but who knows?

 

[REBerg]

What is Bran doing basically... very little considering what he could be doing.

Bran as the Three-Eyed Raven is just plain spooky.

 

[Narkalui]

I'm looking forward to Bran looking at Jaime and saying: "The things I do for love"

 

[Judderman]

This was a good episode considering it was the start of the season. Impressive dragon effects. The story got most of the main "good" players in the same place within a few minutes of the start. Though with such a short season things have to move quick.

So is Cersei planning to attack the Northerners before the dead arrive? Or she will expect that the Northerners and Unsullied etc will beat off the Dead, be weakened, and then she can send her men to victory against the remnants?

I expect Greyjoy will suffer burnt ships again.

With Ned Umber's death at his castle are we to assume all the Umber soldiers were wiped out? A little odd that Dondarrion et al didn't see any of the Walkers on their way to the castle.

 

[Judderman]

Here are a couple of reviewers opinions on the episode. Both quite negative, although not ripping it to shreds. Poor dialogue, problems with pacing too fast (too few episodes) so you don't see the problems that people have to overcome etc..

In my opinion the dialogue and storytelling follows on from season 7 in that it lacks the interesting conversations that GRRM puts in the books. But there is still plenty to like about the show. These reviews are probably not from big fantasy fans!

Game of Thrones is more interested in payoffs than actual storytelling

http://time.com

 

[Mr Orange]

A legitimised Targaryen *******, yes. I'd personally assume they'd have referenced this or a Griff if they'd meant to use that in the TV series by now, but who knows?

maybe, but you never know. I was also thinking that their allegiance may be fluid if a Targaryen comes a calling with promises of reinstating lordships etc.

Here are a couple of reviewers opinions on the episode. Both quite negative, although not ripping it to shreds. Poor dialogue, problems with pacing too fast (too few episodes) so you don't see the problems that people have to overcome etc..

In my opinion the dialogue and storytelling follows on from season 7 in that it lacks the interesting conversations that GRRM puts in the books. But there is still plenty to like about the show. These reviews are probably not from big fantasy fans!

Game of Thrones is more interested in payoffs than actual storytelling

http://time.com

an interesting statement I heard was (more or less) that GOT has changed since it overtook the books from a drama series with action scenes to an action series with some dramatic scenes.

 

[The Big Peat]

an interesting statement I heard was (more or less) that GOT has changed since it overtook the books from a drama series with action scenes to an action series with some dramatic scenes.

That sounds right to me on first blush; and to me that makes it significantly worse.

And also makes the episodes without much action noticeably not all that.

 

[Mr Orange]

what they needed was an extra season...

or possibly just better writers

 

[Al Jackson]

That might have been Sansa just being bitchy. The Unsullied are not warfare newbies. They've got supplies somewhere. She even complained about the alliance's new air force.

In the books GRRM does have supply trains , even camp followers, as many as 100,000 , but I guess in TV visual narrative those are boring details no one cares about.

 

[Al Jackson]

With only 6 episodes they could of made them all 90 min long, this first episode seemed rushed, a trait of GoT on HBO.

 

[Koopa]

The show faced the same problem that GRRM is/was facing with the books (depending on wether he is still writing) and that is time and space. GRRM been trying to find a fix for this. The show just glosses all over this, hoping nobody cares enough to bring it up to much. The timetravelling last season was terrible, and i fear it will only get worse this season.

 

[Al Jackson]

The show faced the same problem that GRRM is/was facing with the books (depending on wether he is still writing) and that is time and space. GRRM been trying to find a fix for this. The show just glosses all over this, hoping nobody cares enough to bring it up to much. The timetravelling last season was terrible, and i fear it will only get worse this season.

George wrote the novels not caring if they would ever be visual narrative, he said he wanted to just 'garden' he did not want to tighten the story up.
From my perspective , reading the novels, I thought this was ok through the 3rd book, but as interesting as the core of novels 4 and 5 are there is way too much tap dancing and the introduction of more characters and locations get to be clutter. The clutter can be entertaining since GRRM is a good story teller, but at this point it does not make a satisfactory story. The show runners have been dealing with this all the way , in fact giving the Bum's Rush to the Dorne story. Actually the Bum's Rush was given to some characters , like Ser Barry, who we know is still around in novel 6.

 

[ctg]

From my perspective , reading the novels, I thought this was ok through the 3rd book, but as interesting as the core of novels 4 and 5 are there is way too much tap dancing and the introduction of more characters and locations get to be clutter. The clutter can be entertaining since GRRM is a good story teller, but at this point it does not make a satisfactory story. The show runners have been dealing with this all the way , in fact giving the Bum's Rush to the Dorne story. Actually the Bum's Rush was given to some characters , like Ser Barry, who we know is still around in novel 6.

Well, George has admitted that it all got away and he couldn't stop world-building or staying within the limit. But when you write Epic Fantasy, everything tends to be Epic, even the length of the books. This same thing happened with Rowlings, as her books grew towards 100k and then went well over, possibly by the editors suggesting her to let go of those restrains.

I personally think that George loves doing world building, maybe even more than writing drama and sweating over it as if suddenly he would have lost the talent. I suspect that he has finished the book a couple of times, but like anyone of us, he cannot get over the edit and rewrites. To me, edit might cut 15 to 16 000 words from 100k, but the rewrites will bring it back, and in some cases take it over. If he does not have a limit for the Winters book, or even for the Springs, then it will take time before its out.

I too have a number of characters I'd like to write out in the course of one book, but I try my best to not go there, and instead of putting them all in one, I compress things around the story.

 

[Al Jackson]

I personally think that George loves doing world building, maybe even more than writing drama and sweating over it as if suddenly he would have lost the talent. I suspect that he has finished the book a couple of times, but like anyone of us, he cannot get over the edit and rewrites. To me, edit might cut 15 to 16 000 words from 100k, but the rewrites will bring it back, and in some cases take it over. If he does not have a limit for the Winters book, or even for the Springs, then it will take time before its out.

I have had this suspicion that GRRM has finished both Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring, like you say it could be edits and rewrites. I have also wondered if he and his publisher think that people will be more curious and in a shopping mood to see the differences between the show and books if they wait? From the excerpts from Winds of Winter there are already know major differences , such as the character Asha (Yara on the show) is with Stannis and even that Mance Rayder is still alive and it's not clear what is going to happen. In fact GRRM's 'Winter' is a 1000 times more brutal than on the show , not clear everyone in the North might just freeze to death!
You know GRRM comments little about the show anymore , it is not clear he sees the scripts , maybe he avoids reading them? It is known he is in contact with the show runners , but seems not in a close way anymore.
David Benioff said , I think after season 3 , or was it 4, that the story on the show would land in the same spot as the books, but I am wondering if that is still true?

 

[Glaysher]

David Benioff said , I think after season 3 , or was it 4, that the story on the show would land in the same spot as the books, but I am wondering if that is still true?

GRRM confirmed this again recently.