Game of Thrones: 8.06 The Iron Throne

[Al Jackson]

It is called Star Wars.

Could be.
Well, I hope D&D have better ideas for SW than the last 2 I have seen which seemed tortured simulacras' of episodes 4 and 5.
I enjoyed Rouge One and Solo better than those.

 

[Al Jackson]

This is very nice:

THE MANY-FACED BLOG

Literary Analysis of 'A Song of Ice and Fire'

themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com

 

[Mr Orange]

agree with most of what has been said above - I had no problem with where the story ended up (except I think more of the "goodies" should have died, for reality's sake and i'm still miffed about the whole NK thing) but they definitely did not give the story enough time to end. seeing as it seems they knew season 8 was going to the last a long time ago, they really could have done better.

on the whole NK/Bran thing, I could well believe that Bran is an agent of the NK/children of the forest and is going to royally screw up the kingdoms of men. I think an awesome final scene (stolen from a review I heard) would have been Bran sitting at his desk/on his throne, and his sigil being shown which incorporates the NK's spiral design somehow...

 

[-K2-]

Well, I've watched the entire series without fail over all its years...

Roughly halfway through the series, each season seemed to grow shorter, have less meat, and leave me with a sense of 'what, that's it?' I can woulda'/coulda'/shoulda' forever to no worthwhile end. Or, I could try and find some hidden meaning, try to apply some high morality to it, or try and twist the outcome to make it a positive satisfying end.

However, frankly it feels all too much like the writers sat down and said, "screw it, we're tired of working on this never ending saga, let's shove a couple massive battles at them, a lot of special effects, then throw up our hands and say that's that... this is how it ends, don't bother us again." I didn't find any of the last season surprising, clever, a slick turn of events or taking us to a higher/lower plane. It was predictable and so straight forward that it was uncharacteristic of the first half of the series.

And to be fair, after the last couple of seasons due to how they ran, I was growing tired of watching it. I'm glad it's done, no matter how it ended, albeit, if I knew the last episode was going to play out like that, I wouldn't have watched the last season.

K2

 

[Al Jackson]

However, frankly it feels all too much like the writers sat down and said, "screw it, we're tired of working on this never ending saga, let's shove a couple massive battles at them, a lot of special effects, then throw up our hands and say that's that... this is how it ends, don't bother us again." I didn't find any of the last season surprising, clever, a slick turn of events or taking us to a higher/lower plane. It was predictable and so straight forward that it was uncharacteristic of the first half of the series.

They kinda were ging off-books in season 5 , tho they did have enough story to do some things, they put Sansa in place of Jeyne Poole , I thought that made a better story, Dany's story is not all that interesting but they did do Daznak's pit which is a surprising highlight of Dance of Dragons. The story that leads up to Hardhome and the battle there was big surprise, not in the books. I was a bit disapoined with how Arya's story at The House of Black and White was pitched , we don't have the whole narrative yet but in the book it's a lot less Arch but also strange.
Really went of off-book in season 6, still thought it was a good story in particular Battle of the Bastards.
Tho they do two Buns Rushes , dropping Dorne like a hot potato! That was weird, they obviously changed their minds about Drone.
The Big Bum's rush , in a spectacular fashion, to dispose of the Faith Militant and the Tyrell's .... and that had zero repercussions for Cersei which did not make a lick of sense.

Story began to stray and get a bit chaotic in season 7. I wonder what Bryan Cogman thought?

Tell ya though, with all it's faults in later seasons I was entertained, as I have said just nothing like it* on TV.
There is a lot of good TV but it does not pull me in.

(Must say my go to now is The Expanse.)

 

[Koopa]

Tommen died, so cersei didn't get away scotch free, i didn't mind cersei betaing the faith and the tyrells like that. Even without knowing that in the books Cersei is becoming quite the pyromancer. My gripes are with all the inconsistencies and convenient plot devices. That make the story unbelievable. It's believable in grand strokes but not in how it is shown/actually depicted.

 

[Al Jackson]

Tommen died, so cersei didn't get away scotch free, i didn't mind cersei betaing the faith and the tyrells like that. Even without knowing that in the books Cersei is becoming quite the pyromancer. My gripes are with all the inconsistencies and convenient plot devices. That make the story unbelievable. It's believable in grand strokes but not in how it is shown/actually depicted.

Well a whole bunch of innocent people were murdered by Cersei when blowing up the center of the Faith of the Seven.
Most of the supporters of Faith Militant were not there because they were mostly the under class.
Yeah this willy nilly on the show .... there should have been rioting in the streets.
I don't know what GRRM will do with the Faith Militant....
This is one of those elements that George writes well but adds up to a shaggy dog story...
Like Stannis's story I can see him contending for the throne by attacking KL, but then, on the show , (in the book too)…. up north , in the end, it's like Stannis Smannis, , forget him! But then we don't have the book story yet.
Even in the books Mance Rayder has not left the story yet.
Even GRRM has admitted he has a KNOT that is apparently taking years to cut through!

 

[Al Jackson]

Emilia Clarke

I remember Emilia took some knocks for season 2 (she had been very good in season 1), some of which was due to some poor dialog and she seemed to respond to different directors in different ways. Tho in the first two episodes of S2 I could see nothing wrong.
Season 3 had a real breakout for Emilia because episode 4 was a wow! D&D added a touch in that episode that was not in the book, Dany hid that she spoke Valyrian (I guess her antagonist just thought she had never learned it?) as a plot surprise, Kraznys realizes all his insults have been understood by her. Emilia hit that one out of the park, her expressions as she dealt silently with a loutish Kraznys , and then speaking Valyrian to the Unsullied, speaking with body language , inflection and projection (David Peterson says he was quite impressed). She does it again when speaking to the Unsullied and making the freedom offer. (This was a lot of invented language and she only spoken Dothraki before.) (In that scene Missandei , Selmay and Jorah show surprise, I would have thought Mormont would have known about Dany's ability.)
Next in season 4 Emilia does it again in episode 3 she does it with the Meereenise ultimatum (tho , again, the acoustical physics seem impossible.)
After that Emilia seemed to settle into a more nuanced character quite different from season 2.
In season 5 Emilia has a remarkable scene with Peter Dinklage , episode 8 (Hardhome) , she goes Alpha Female, responding to Sapochnik? Dany seems to become a real Queen.
Season 6 , Dany speaking Dotraki again takes command.
Since season 5 Emilia was more in command of her character, at least when given good dialog, all the directors seemed to work well together with her.
By the end I could not imagine any other actress in the role.
(It did always strike me that she looked and sounded best when speaking Dothrai and Valyrian even tho Peterson said she was not always 'in tune' for the pronunciation.)

 

[Mr Orange]

On the whole NK/Bran thing, I could well believe that Bran is an agent of the NK/children of the forest and is going to royally screw up the kingdoms of men.

The below still from a scene cut from the final edit gives further credence to the above theory

 

[Brian G Turner]

Finally watched it, and... a surprisingly low key ending. I was kind of thinking that half the characters would die fighting the other half. I'm kind of relieved that didn't happen - and especially that Tyrion lived!

Jon and Dany - I'd seen a spoiler here, but I think it was clearly expected and even demanded by the story. It seemed a little low impact, but the dragon provided a good finale to it. The surprise was that rather than kill Jon, Drogo destroyed the Iron Throne, which seemed fitting.

Bran the Broken, eh? I didn't see that coming, but then I expected a more traditional story that put either Jon + Dany or just Dany on the throne (or, possibly just Tyrion).

The endings overall seem satisfactory - Jon always wanted to take the black on the wall, and now he's doing what Aegon did before him - the last Targ, leading the Night Watch, with no apparent heir. Unless he really is becoming the King Beyond the Wall, which is even more fitting.

Sansa demanding the North be independent seems a little surprising, but not earth-shattering - I'm not sure why she's demanded that, but it seems a poor consolation for someone trained to be a queen.

Arya - sailing off into the West (another LOTR reference?).

All in all, I think it was simply a relief that everyone didn't die at the end. I was told to expect something twisty, but I think we got the least twisty ending - especially when these forums have seen so much speculation over the decades, that it's hard to feel surprised by anything (and I'm sure some people flagged Bran as the eventually King).

A bit of an overlong episode, but it underlined that this story was always about the Starks vs Lannisters, something the books seemed to forget but thankfully the TV series got around to.

Btw, I don't understand all the howls of outrage about this season at all.

Now I'll read the comments in this thread.

 

[ctg]

Btw, I don't understand all the howls of outrage about this season at all.

What do you mean?

 

[Al Jackson]

Finally watched it, and... a surprisingly low key ending. I was kind of thinking that half the characters would die fighting the other half. I'm kind of relieved that didn't happen - and especially that Tyrion lived!

Jon and Dany - I'd seen a spoiler here, but I think it was clearly expected and even demanded by the story. It seemed a little low impact, but the dragon provided a good finale to it. The surprise was that rather than kill Jon, Drogo destroyed the Iron Throne, which seemed fitting.

Btw, I don't understand all the howls of outrage about this season at all.
Now I'll read the comments in this thread.

I figured Drogon gave Jon a pass because he is a Targaryen .

Many fans seemed upset with the story which I thought was fine.

Many pro critics got on the D&D about the execution , the Bums Rush for the narrative, I thought they were right.

In the end I was entertained.

 

[The Big Peat]

Many fans seemed upset with the story which I thought was fine.

Many pro critics got on the D&D about the execution , the Bums Rush for the narrative, I thought they were right.

90% of the fans' negative comments I've read are nigh identical to what 90% of the pro critics are saying.

 

[Brian G Turner]

What do you mean?

I mean things like the online petition about rewriting the last season. However, I found this season entirely in character and consistent with what we'd seen already.

Perhaps there was room for a longer period of tension between Dany and Jon to build up to their crescendo, but that would have been frustrating - it was Ned Stark hiding behind his "honour" that started this mess, so I was cringing when Jon appeared to be doing the same so as to have to avoid acting on his conscience. Luckily, he's only half-Stark.

 

[Al Jackson]

I mean things like the online petition about rewriting the last season. However, I found this season entirely in character and consistent with what we'd seen already.

Perhaps there was room for a longer period of tension between Dany and Jon to build up to their crescendo, but that would have been frustrating - it was Ned Stark hiding behind his "honour" that started this mess, so I was cringing when Jon appeared to be doing the same so as to have to avoid acting on his conscience. Luckily, he's only half-Stark.

To me Daenerys Targaryen's quest for the throne was going to happen wither on not Ned lost his head.

 

[Al Jackson]

90% of the fans' negative comments I've read are nigh identical to what 90% of the pro critics are saying.

I would say for many fans the dissatisfaction was indeed due to the narrative expediency .

 

[Ursa major]

Speaking of the time it takes for some things to change, and at the risk of getting too close to a prohibited subject.... The following quote has been attributed to a former UK prime minister:

"A week is a long time in politics."​

 

[The Big Peat]

A bit of an overlong episode, but it underlined that this story was always about the Starks vs Lannisters, something the books seemed to forget but thankfully the TV series got around to.

Now just one moment there Mr Turner - if the author forgets it's about the Starks vs Lannisters, is that really what it's about? Or are you just another disgruntled fan complaining you didn't get things just as you wanted them?


More seriously - I just think that's a really interesting case of expectations and how they are set. For me, the story was never first and foremost about the Starks vs Lannisters. Oh, sure, it takes up a lot of space, but there's too many loose ends flying around for it to be just about that and most crucially:

A lot of the big fantasy sagas I read growing up like to set one mundane problem at the start of the series and have it mutate into something far bigger throughout the story. For me, if I'm reading a fantasy story, that's a pattern I'm likely to subconsciously recognise and start projecting regardless of right or wrong (I'm right here of course , particularly if it's a story that features a prologue about something huge and devastating that's not really related to the first chapter so obviously; the prologue is setting the big problem, Ch 1 is setting the mundane one.

Which is exactly how GoT goes down. It's a textbook start of its ilk. And tbh, the fact that King's Landing seems to be the Scouring of the Shire backs that up imo.

Obviously you got something different from it, which just goes to show why I now regard GoT as one big Rorschach test.

 

[svalbard]

I am sort of with Brian on this and always thought the story was about Stark siblings.

 

[The Big Peat]

I am sort of with Brian on this and always thought the story was about Stark siblings.

Stark siblings vs who though? Stark siblings vs the Army of the Dead, which does after all consume almost all of Jon's arc and large swathes of Bran's? Stark siblings vs the Targs, which is the biggest part of their endings? Stark siblings vs themselves? I'd argue that's a huge part of it. Stark siblings vs the whole world? Maybe yeah.

Stark siblings vs the Lannisters is still a reasonable interpretation, but just because its about the Starks (well, Starks and Dany) doesn't mean its about them vs the Lannisters, or any other one particular threat. Particularly not when Martin made it so open ended.