Swearing in Fiction

[Karn's Return]

Here's what this ultimately boils down to: A person is the sum of the total products of their time, culturally, mentally, education-wise, various other factors.

And the writing is the person. You use examples of your real life in some form, even if it is just to how characters react to things. Swearing is no big deal in my opinion, many of my characters will swear up a storm and are very short tempered when it comes to many kinds of situations they find themselves in, so I'll use the swear words I know. One piece of backstory is that this world they are from are allies with many countries here on Earth, and have been for centuries, so placing Earth as the political powerhouse of the alliance between various worlds of mine, English, among many other languages, have had to have been learned by many of my characters, who have strong political power. Ultimately, as well, I am not bi-lingual, so I am not able to really write in any other language, nor have I been able to invent one of my own successfully-I am nowhere near the genius that Tolkein or Rodenberry were-I am simply able to write in English, and as such, I use English swear words. I don't find the idea of making up swears to be any good, I simply think it makes things sound tacky or silly, or deliberately censoring. I'm perhaps the biggest stickler for free speech possible, so I say, if a character could make a sailor run to church due to language, so be it.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Over here swear words are part of the richness of our language. I don’t see why they are seen as ‘lazy’ - it takes creativity to swear like the Irish.

 

[Karn's Return]

So I've heard, Jo. I heard there's a few things a foreigner should never to try compete with an Irish person in, and I'd imagine swearing would be one.


But then, considering Ireland's history, the culture has a right to such things.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

So I've heard, Jo. I heard there's a few things a foreigner should never to try compete with an Irish person in, and I'd imagine swearing would be one.


But then, considering Ireland's history, the culture has a right to such things.

Swearing, drinking and fighting are the stereotype. I’m a wimp though

 

[zmunkz]

I’ve gone back and forth on including or excluding swears from my WiP. There are several well-cited studies showing how people physiologically react to swears in a manner different from other word (and from made up / in-world curses).

By leaving out swears, there is no doubt you’re leaving some subtle part of reader experience out. But then, many reader’s don’t want that part of the experience (so I’m told).

What to do, what to do...

 

[Phyrebrat]

Over here swear words are part of the richness of our language. I don’t see why they are seen as ‘lazy’ - it takes creativity to swear like the Irish.

I agree. Creative cusses are a joy to hear or read. The people around me are outside of my cultural capital and there's a subset within them who have me half-hysterical, half-awefilled when they get going.

I recall my mother saying (and still does), swearing points to 'a lack of vocabulary'. As a kid I think I believed her, but these days, even she learns new vocabulary from me. And as an adult I know swearing is certainly not a lack of vocabulary.

What is worse is when your class is showing each other their work to give each other feedback, and all you can hear is: 'It was good,'; 'I liked it,' or 'you was on point,'.

My dad made me laugh when Lake Manor was published by remarking how much swearing was in my story. When I said I thought there might be a sh*t or two, he corrected me with numbers. It led to an interesting conversation about the creation of facsimiles vs verisimilitude.*

pH

*I won in the end if you care, by reminding him that him and my mum had happily bought me Stephen King books from age 11 upwards for birthdays, Christmas, etc.

 

[Karn's Return]

I honestly really don't see swearing as a true moral issue, words are just words in any language, and I really can't see why swearing is seen as offensive, within general context, of course. Directed insults are another thing, and swearing usually happens there regardless, just part of the nature.

 

[zmunkz]

I honestly really don't see swearing as a true moral issue, words are just words in any language, and I really can't see why swearing is seen as offensive, within general context, of course. Directed insults are another thing, and swearing usually happens there regardless, just part of the nature.

I agree 100%. Why would you cook without using any spices? Swears enable a type of expression that seems indispensable. It’s definitely not a moral issue. Maybe a politeness issue, but as you said, depends how they are directed.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Speaking of such things, I am far less tolerant of sex scenes than I am of swearing. Not to sound prudish but I always think there's rarely a justification for it in books or films/TV. If it's not relevant to the story/character, then I don't want to waste time reading or seeing it.

We don't populate our books with details of people going to the loo, yet we know everyone has to do it. That's how I feel about sex in fiction.

Of course there are many reasons to have sexual content in works of fiction, but I expect them to be relevant other than: These two are in love, look here's proof, they're sexing....

pH

 

[Danny McG]

they're sexing

Filth sir, utter filth.
You need your mouth washed out with soap

 

[Lumens]

If I only wrote what was nescessary, I wouldn't write fiction at all...

 

[Karn's Return]

Swearing, drinking and fighting are the stereotype. I’m a wimp though

A rich culture with reasons for all three, though. Would love to visit the place someday, more around the countryside than I would the larger cities, though.

Pretty good mythology as well, though I must say I'm more familiar with the creature side of Celtic than I am with the Heroes...


Going off topic there, though. Lumens has a very good point there and I agree with him. I'll take it one step further, though. What I write might not be what's trendy and what's being looked for right now, but if I only wrote what could potentially catch the eye of a trend-follower publisher, I wouldn't be writing anything at all right now. I might be able to put up with Urban to a point but I refuse to do grimdark. It's a category of fantasy I just do not like, and if I do not enjoy my writing, then there is absolutely no point in putting words on paper.

Sadly I think quest fantasy is just about done...I chalk it up to everything really. As the world becomes more and more political, the more human side seems to fade...

 

[Ursa major]

Would love to visit the place someday

I should be there in August.

I'll make sure to pack my ear defenders....

 

[L.L.Lotte]

I honestly really don't see swearing as a true moral issue, words are just words in any language, and I really can't see why swearing is seen as offensive, within general context, of course. Directed insults are another thing, and swearing usually happens there regardless, just part of the nature.

I would answer this, but the answer is something that is not an approved of discussion on this forum... so I'd get myself in trouble.




I don't really swear in real life, but that doesn't mean my characters can't.

Speaking of such things, I am far less tolerant of sex scenes than I am of swearing. Not to sound prudish but I always think there's rarely a justification for it in books or films/TV. If it's not relevant to the story/character, then I don't want to waste time reading or seeing it.

We don't populate our books with details of people going to the loo, yet we know everyone has to do it. That's how I feel about sex in fiction.

Of course there are many reasons to have sexual content in works of fiction, but I expect them to be relevant other than: These two are in love, look here's proof, they're sexing....

pH

I think it's only natural for sex scenes to be considered worse than swearing. After all, if they put high level coarse language in a TV show it gets a teen rating (M15), but put nudity in a show and it gets an adult rating (R18). I'd say it works the same for books, although there isn't really any classification system in place for books like there is for TV. But I'm sure that if a YA novel had sex in it -- which some do -- the parents would be out with the pitchforks -- as has been seen on the news in the past, just google a novel called Into The River -- but one that had just had a bit of swearing would likely be given a free pass with only a minor complaint from a few parents.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I should be there in August.

I'll make sure to pack my ear defenders....

You want to be with us! We have one of Dublin’s best loved pubs across the road from us. Still at least we won’t be bored!

Karn - there are only about 8 cities in the whole island. Basically it’s a field

 

[Karn's Return]

Very true, there, Jo, I'm sure, but still I never cared for large cities. I'm sure places like Belfast, Dublin, Enniscorthy, and such have some nice spots to visit as a tourist, but, a nice, peaceful village experience is more along what I would like to see. Plus, got to love Irish folk songs, you guys just make your music sound upbeat, bouncy, and rather positive.

 

[MikeAnderson]

I used to be a Ranger in the U.S. Army, so I do posses a hazardously filthy mouth at times. Cursing is okay, as long as it has a purpose. if your stuff sounds like a Wolf of Wall Street sequel, and you're writing a medieval fantasy novel, might be time for a rewrite.

 

[IntoTheBlack]

Hello Everyone,

This is an interesting topic, for me swearing puts me off, but I swear, we all do, it is part of life. Not all characters are equal and the people I meet in the pub swear more openly than those at work. So setting and character must be a factor. I should say I stopped watching a film recently due to huge amounts of pointless swearing and I am reluctant to read novels which feature swear words to the point there a few other kinds of words. Swearing is expression and expression is vital. I was told that about 3% or less of a book is fine for swear words, but bunching them together is not ok. That seems high to me, and I don’t remember who told me that rule, but I remember the play I was in. Either way they were a crime writer.

Now, not all swear words are equal and not all people who are rough swear, but if inventing your own. Think of Firefly where Mal started swearing in Chinese. Running languages together to create your own swear words is one approach but I guess this is where world building looms in our background.

What makes swear words a swear word – history, look how language as developed so far with words like ‘App, Noob, blockchain’ A ‘hard drive’ used to be a car with no engine. <-- Sorry could not resist.

I can recommend (if you are interested in world building and language) to check out Artifexian on Youtube. He has such detailed information how he creates words and language it will at least give you a blue print of how you can start the subvert the word with history or back story.

I have started to borrow a lot of Russian words; my story is Sci-fi so if a western reader comes across something Russian the word will be new to them assuming they had no training in the language. The bonus for me is simple – as long as the word is in the right context, Russian can be highly mellifluous. Sadly, I have to ask the wife, this means she has to understand the position and possibly read three thousand words to get context– ‘that vegetable patch does not tend itself’ – is a phrase she uses often (her passion being gardening).

Yes swearing is essential for me but in very limited supply, Raymond E Fiest wrote a lot of fantasy – I cant remember him swearing but if he did probably it was in his cannon.

Either way I hope this helps

Andy

 

[Lew Rockwell Fan]

There is a delightful story - I assume true - that Norman Mailer attended a party at the JFK White House and was introduced to an elderly lady who exclaimed "Oh! You're the young man who can't spell f*ck!"

 

[Steve Harrison]

The amount of swearing is a very simple matter of working out the context of the story, the readers' expectations, the authenticity of your characters and appropriate level and intensity of the language required.

And if anyone can work this out, let me know, because I don't have a f*cking clue.