Snow Algae found in ice spires means

[Vertigo]

Did I say science should change its definition? I said science goes as far into describing the mechanism of nature as what science can do, based on the quantization of the photon, etc. It does a wonderful job. But do you not even accept the possibility that 'energy' may be more than that?

That is not what I said. What I said is the analogy is inappropriate; The assumption that because you can do different things in music that the same should be or even is likely to be true of energy. I am perfectly prepared to accept, in fact I am sure, we do not know everything about energy. but, as @Venusian Broon says, things aren't 'energy,' they have energy; particles have energy etc. and there's nothing that we have yet seen that suggests energy (a property of something) can organise itself independently of the things it is a property of.

At the same time I have been careful to say that I don't reject anything, just that nothing we have so far been able to observe (and by observe I mean in such a way that it can be documented and reproduced) about energy suggests it can behave in this way. And therefore I think it highly unlikely that there might be some form of life consisting of pure energy.

I am always ready to change my expectations based on new evidence. But until I see such evidence I will maintain my stance of its unlikeliness.

 

[CTRandall]

I think this thread is an excellent example of the second law of thermodynamics at work.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Late to this party, but Brian, that's not 100% correct. Whilst the vast majority of life is dependent on the sun, in the depths of the oceans life has evolved around underwater sulphurous vents, where no sunlight reaches. It is possible for life that isn't contingent on the sun (although a tiny minority on Earth).

 

[Ursa major]

Sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere (or covers old ground) -- I've just watched something I recorded last night -- but the BBC Horizon programme had an episode on Pluto (first broadcast at 21:00 on the 6th of July and which is on iPlayer** for another 29 days) and one of the (many) items covered was the existence and production of organic compounds on Pluto (a process driven by the sun, at least with regard to the compounds formed in Pluto's atmosphere).


** - Note: I am ignorant regarding the availability of the programme (and iPlayer in general) outside the UK.