Latin speakers (typers)

[Phyrebrat]

Hello,

I'm wary of relying on Google translate. In a vision a character hears (in latin) Restitution. Rest. Peace.

Would that be a simple case of

Restituere. Reliqua. Pax

And is it correct? I wonder because I thought "requiescat in pace" was rest in peace so I'm wondering about the conjugation of the fragments.

Thanks

pH

 

[Artoriarius]

Unfortunately, Google Translate has betrayed you, as it betrays everyone. Truly, there is nothing more treacherous. What it gave you is more like "To restore. Leftovers. Peace."

Restitution is the hard one here: the Latin nouns that mean restitution all mean more like "reclaiming property" - useful in a legal case, not so much in this. However, there are some words that could fit: "Reparatio" means "restoration; renewal"; and "Refectio" means "restoration/repair; remaking; recouping; refreshment; recovery/convalescence". One of these could work. The perfect passive participles (basically, turning a verb into a noun/adjective) "Restitutus" ("Restore; revive; bring back; make good"), "Recuperatus" ("Regain, restore, restore to health; refresh, recuperate") should also work.

For rest, your intuition is closer than Google got it: the Latin noun "Requies" should look perfectly.

But it did get the last word right - "Pax" is, indeed, the Latin noun for peace. One of three ain't... well, it's actually worse than half-bad, come to think of it.

Of course, Latin being what it is, there's some confusion about the cases - Latin has an uncommon vocative case, where a word is being identified (You know when (SPOILERS) Caesar says, "Et tu, Brute?" as he dies? That "Brute" is the vocative of "Brutus".) One could argue that the nominative (naming a word, and the base form of Latin nouns) could also work, because Latin can be singularly complicated.

So! If you prefer the nominative (naming) case: "Reparatio. Requies. Pax."; "Refectio. Requies. Pax."; "Restitutus. Requies. Pax."; and "Recuperatus. Requies. Pax." should work. I'd recommend the third one, as it sounds better to me, but in terms of meaning they're all about equal.

If you prefer the vocative (identifying) case: "Reparatio. Requies. Pax."; "Refectio. Requies. Pax."; "Restitute. Requies. Pax."; and "Recuperate. Requies. Pax." would be correct. ...And yes, the vocative is mostly the same. It's just the two words here where it's different - but I figured it'd be better to be too accurate, than not enough.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Thank you @Artoriarius - I'm going to have to read that a few times, it's so comprehensive!

Whilst I'm here, what would you say 'Tace et obmutesce' means?

Thanks

pH

 

[Artoriarius]

Loosely, "Be silent and shut up," I think - taceo and obmutesco have rather similar definitions - essentially, the difference seems to be that obmutesco is changing to become silent, rather than being in a state of silence.

So literally, it'd be... "Be silent and become silent."

 

[Phyrebrat]

Thanks again, I was hoping for Be Silent, Be still, hopefully to have the effect of silencing a demon or spirit.

pH

 

[Artoriarius]

"Tace et Sta" could work for that - Sto means "stand still" or "stand firm." "Obmutesce et Derigesce" is closer - Derigesco means "freeze, become stiff (through fear); grow still" - but it's longer, and it kinda rhymes (not a problem if you want it to be something medieval/ecclesiastical or something someone came up with in modern times, but ancient Romans considered rhyming to be the crudest form of wit. Puns, on the other hand...).

 

[-K2-]

All I have to say is, ethay esponsesray omfray @Artoriarius -way areway impressiveway
andway ascinatingfay!

2Kay

 

[Phyrebrat]

"Tace et Sta" could work for that - Sto means "stand still" or "stand firm." "Obmutesce et Derigesce" is closer - Derigesco means "freeze, become stiff (through fear); grow still" - but it's longer, and it kinda rhymes (not a problem if you want it to be something medieval/ecclesiastical or something someone came up with in modern times, but ancient Romans considered rhyming to be the crudest form of wit. Puns, on the other hand...).

Artoriarius, firstly I apologise for not getting back to you sooner - or even acknowledging your reply. I've two scenes to go till I finish this novel and am now trying to decide on which to use. What you've said about the rhyming scheme could work inasmuch as the latin is meant as a binding for what monks think is a demon or a possessed girl. The time at which it's being said is at some point between 7AD and 1000AD.

Because it is liturgical/ecclesiastical do you think Tace et Sta or Obmutesce er Derigesce would be better?

Many thanks.

pH

 

[Artoriarius]

I'd say Obmutesce et Derigesce: the words aren't quite as frequently used as Taceo or Sto, but they're not uncommon, and at any rate that's made up for by being closer to the intended meaning (Sto/"stand firm" could, after all, be taken as encouragement), and - while this is more personal preference than any actual rule that's found anywhere - I feel like the longer, more complicated words have a more medieval feel to them, especially since they're used in an ecclesiastical ritual. The internal rhyme also adds to that medieval feel - and, of course, rhymes in general are sometimes considered as having greater power among the mystical set, since both halves reinforce and tie into each other.

And no worries about not getting back sooner! So long as you're finding this helpful, I'm satisfied.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Thank you so much. It really is helpful and I’m happy you prefer the longer form as it was my preference for exactly the reasons you’ve mentioned.

Whilst I’m not aiming to be the next Follett or Mantel, I want to go for a passable level of verisimilitude.

Once again, thanks for your advice on this.

pH