"to be" or no "to be"?

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm not saying anything but during my visit to the Worldcon in Dublin last August I initially had some trouble with my hearing.

it was a noisy con!

Karn - the Scots accent is closer to mine than the Irish so it is lovely of course

 

[Star-child]

I think, "That needs some holes drilled in it" works. What could make it bad is either, 'That need holes.' or That needs drilled.' by then I'd just say, 'That needs fixed.' because it would work just as well. On the other hand I'd love to watch 'Holes drilling'.

Also what makes either way bad is that it's passive and you don't fix it by taking out to be because the subject is still missing.
You need to fix that.
You need to drill holes.

What would be wrong with "That needs holes"? Holes being a noun.

 

[Karn's Return]

We have the best scenery, the best accents, friendliest people, the weather isn't always bad, it's good to be a Scot

Oh, I would love to visit someday. Just the British Isles in general, though I would probably do my best to stay out of the largest cities like London. I prefer quieter, friendlier countryside, providing wherever one visits, would be welcoming and friendly to American tourists.


Didn't say the Scottish accents weren't nice, as they very much are. It's just a different tone to Irish I've heard, and these days I prefer the stuff I find to be more upbeat and fun. I don't need my depression taking control again.

 

[Ursa major]

wUt?

That need's fixed = That need is fixed;

Need = requirement;
Requirement not being met = problem;
Requirement now being met = problem fixed;

So "The problem that that requirement could not previously be met has been fixed, because the requirement can now be met" = "That need's fixed".


Simples!

 

[-K2-]

This is why it's so difficult to understand the British. They don't speak English.

K2

 

[nixie]

There is such a diverse selection of accents here in UK, you can go to the next town and the accent is different. I've lived in Doncaster for years no problem with understanding but anyone with a Barnsley accent and I'm lost

 

[Elckerlyc]

I'm curious. What does a British writer do when his/her novel is to be published in the US. Different publishers, to start with, I guess. But what about the spelling and such? Would that lead to a 'translation'?

 

[Mouse]

I'm curious. What does a British writer do when his/her novel is to be published in the US. Different publishers, to start with, I guess. But what about the spelling and such? Would that lead to a 'translation'?

Depends on the publisher. I have two different publishers, both in the US. One wanted US spellings, the other was happy with UK, but they both had to be understandable to a US audience (while still remaining authentically British).

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm curious. What does a British writer do when his/her novel is to be published in the US. Different publishers, to start with, I guess. But what about the spelling and such? Would that lead to a 'translation'?

These days I write books set in Northern Ireland, mostly. They stay as they are but the long suffering @TheDustyZebra copyedits and lets me know when I’ve gone too far. But I do better and make more money based on the Irish feel so they need to be authentic.

With my space opera books they’re in U.K. English but without any strong idioms. Some authors write in US English for the greater sales.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Some authors write in US English for the greater sales.

I suspected something like that. Much like why I have considered writing in English (which probably would result in a nice mix of GB English and US English prose, completed with Dutchisms and other silly mistakes.)
The world of publishing seems orientated to the US market.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I suspected something like that. Much like why I have considered writing in English (which probably would result in a nice mix of GB English and US English prose, completed with Dutchisms and other silly mistakes.)
The world of publishing seems orientated to the US market.

The world of mass market publishing is. It’s perfectly okay to go for your own market instead - having a defined niche (that weird Northern Irish woman, in my case) can still bring in money.

 

[tinkerdan]

True:

What would be wrong with "That needs holes"? Holes being a noun.

That needs holes.
Subject-verb-object
like
He needs food.

However the that part.
Might as well say, 'Needs holes.'
More concise. Just assume the subject.

So after consideration:
To be--more like 'that needs fixed'.
It would have to be 'that needs holed'.

 

[Rufus Coppertop]

It never ceased feeling strange to me. But then today I caught myself saying "That needs some holes drilled in it". On the face of it, that's the same thing, isn't it? But it's not that I've adopted the colloquialism, I think, because I would have used the same sentence years ago, before I was aware of it.

Is my "drilled" sentence formally incorrect? Or is there a reason why it is correct, but the "Irish version" isn't, even though they seem the same?

(In case it needs saying, this is to satisfy my curiosity only, not because I'm trying to promote any particular "rule".)

I don't think so. I think the two are entirely different.

"That needs fixed" as we know is simply "that needs to be fixed" with the verb "to be" omitted but implied.

In the case of "that needs some holes drilled in it" I'm reasonably sure that "drilled" functions as an adjective. Actually, the whole phrase "drilled in it" is an adjectival phrase. It's describing the holes needed.

It needs holes. What sort of holes?
Painted holes? Gouged holes? Eaten holes? No. It needs drilled holes.
Where though? Drilled to the left of it? To the right of it?
No. Drilled IN IT.

It's perfectly good English without the verb "to be".

 

[HareBrain]

I'm reasonably sure that "drilled" functions as an adjective. Actually, the whole phrase "drilled in it" is an adjectival phrase. It's describing the holes needed.

You might well be right. It's possibly confusing because the sentence also works with "to be" added: "that needs some holes to be drilled in it".

 

[Danny McG]

There is such a diverse selection of accents here in UK, you can go to the next town and the accent is different

Here in Whitehaven we have 3 large housing estates, all well within a half mile of each other.
Instantly recognisable accents (to us old codgers who've grew up here), it causes astonishment amongst the millennials when I remark
"I see you're from Hensingham/Mirehouse/Woodes"
They look at the psychic in awe!

 

[Star-child]

Here in Whitehaven we have 3 large housing estates, all well within a half mile of each other.
Instantly recognisable accents (to us old codgers who've grew up here), it causes astonishment amongst the millennials when I remark
"I see you're from Hensingham/Mirehouse/Woodes"
They look at the psychic in awe!

That must be an unconscious but still deliberate process to differentiate people from their "rivals" in neighboring housing. I imagine people in the UK are more preoccupied with distinctions like origin or social strata than us insensitive Yanks as a form of identity.