Losing Control of Characters and the Brain

[Kerrybuchanan]

Sorry, @Kerrybuchanan, that wasn't really aimed at anyone in particular: it was just general thoughts.

It's okay: I wasn't taking it personally, but your post made me review what I'd been thinking when I wrote it!

 

[Phyrebrat]

I think these are both very true.

Personally, I find the whole "my characters surprise me" thing a little bit twee, as they're not real people and so, one way or another, what they do has to be the writer's decision. But in a way it's a convenient shorthand for "I didn't expect that I would come up with this idea". I suspect that, when you write a character, you're not just saying what they'll do in this particular story, but writing a set of rules by which they would function in any story ("if X is sufficiently wronged, he will seek revenge", etc). Some of these rules may not be consciously realised by the writer. So then, when the writer writes more about the character, making them comply with rules that he hasn't formally stated, it may come as a surprise.

I suppose there are moments when a character appears to act entirely contrary to their previous personality - a villain behaves well, a coward is heroic etc. But in that situation, there must be an element of the writer thinking (on some level) "This would be good for the story" or just "This feels like a cool thing to do" (two different things).

^This.

i worry for the sanity of people who believe their characters are real.

pH

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

i worry for the sanity of people who believe their characters are real.

Oh no! I'd better see a shrink.

I am absolutely certain the dragons, elves and magically-gifted characters in my current WIP are real and will fight to the death to prove my point!

You, sir, had better arm yourself, and fast...

 

[HareBrain]

I remember it included a lot of thought about the hemispheres of the brain.

That was one of his major themes, but I believe scientific evidence has since shown that the hemispheres don't have anywhere near as much difference in function (between creative and logic, etc) as was once thought.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Oh no! I'd better see a shrink.

I am absolutely certain the dragons, elves and magically-gifted characters in my current WIP are real and will fight to the death to prove my point!

You, sir, had better arm yourself, and fast...

i always knew you were a wrong’un.

it’s funny because although I haven’t had the character thing as outlined upthread, what I have had - and quite often - is a character manifesting in the wip completely realised (even down to name) and I often marvel at how those things might happen.

pH

 

[-K2-]

This is not really a big problem. If a character refuses to obey, insert Acme Corporation earlier into the script, and Coyote him.

K2

 

[Stephen Palmer]

I think that when a character 'takes over' unexpectedly in some way it's a sign that the author's unconscious mind - where most of a novel lies - is telling their conscious mind of the true importance of that character. Always listen to your unconscious.

 

[Biskit]

That was one of his major themes, but I believe scientific evidence has since shown that the hemispheres don't have anywhere near as much difference in function (between creative and logic, etc) as was once thought.

There is some evidence that the two hemispheres can "disagree". A few years back we watched an excellent documentary series "The Brain" by David Eagleman. One of the pieces I recall was a woman where the connections between left and right side were damaged or severed resulting in apparently "unconscious" movement of one hand (can't remember if it was left or right.)

 

[sknox]

I do like the subject line for the thread. I've not lost control of characters, but sometimes I've lost control of my brain.

 

[HareBrain]

There is some evidence that the two hemispheres can "disagree". A few years back we watched an excellent documentary series "The Brain" by David Eagleman. One of the pieces I recall was a woman where the connections between left and right side were damaged or severed resulting in apparently "unconscious" movement of one hand (can't remember if it was left or right.)

Yes, Wilson also referenced some studies on split-brain patients that showed similar experiences. They were really interesting. But I think it has been shown that both hemispheres can process the same things. That doesn't necessarily contradict the idea that they can "disagree", I guess.

 

[Biskit]

Yes, Wilson also referenced some studies on split-brain patients that showed similar experiences. They were really interesting. But I think it has been shown that both hemispheres can process the same things. That doesn't necessarily contradict the idea that they can "disagree", I guess.

I think the point was that yes, both sides can do the same things, but might not come to the same answer. It seems quite bizarre, and fascinating. I couldn't begin to imagine what it might feel like, although from what I remember the "conscious" side of the brain was basically puzzled because it had no idea why one hand was doing something unexpected.

 

[The Big Peat]

I have to say, that while I get the idea that authors having characters take over can seem twee - or unnecessarily full of mystique, or even a humblebrag of "look how real my characters are" - I think there is a serious element of having to create some sense of separation in the mind to reach that part of the subconscious. And another person - a character - is probably the easiest way of doing so.

 

[Robert Zwilling]

When a person has a good recovery from a stroke it shows how some brain functions aren't stuck in one particular place. There are around 40 genes, or more, that control left handed or right handesness. Each one contributes a little. There are probably low level communications that don't show up anywhere. The brain is probably engineered to pick up clues from a range of places, but that can't be clearly seen until there are problems with the hemispheres communicating. What shows up after that is indicative of the lack of communication but I don't think it clearly identifies how the halves work separately or together. The whole in this case is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[Steve Harrison]

Obviously, the writer is responsible for everything a character thinks and does, but I find that wrestling with a character to assert control is the best way I can describe the process. It's not something that happens often when writing a novel, but when it does it alerts me to the presence of something important, usually a fork in the road moment. Most of the time I write consciously and sometimes on auto pilot, but when the character suddenly holds up a stop sign it brings the two together and 'we' can thrash it out. I like a good argument, even if it's with myself.

 

[sknox]

I never like it when people say they are left-brained or right-brained, in part because it so often comes in the form of an excuse: oh, I'm no good at X because I'm right-brained. That sort of thing. I always say I'm whole-brained. Sometimes I'll say I'm hare-brained. Or just brained. But of course Brain died on the 59th Street Bridge, so it's all moot.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Psychologists went through a phase of believing that the right and left halves of the brain were very different and did different things. These days, it's more nuanced. But there's no doubt that in most people the right and left hemispheres do things differently. Wernicke's and Broca's Areas for instance are almost always in the left hemisphere. There's also the 90% right-handed human bias to consider.

 

[Robert Zwilling]

One reason why the left and right halves might perform differently is because they are electrically different, the same way our left and right hands look the same but don't perform the same way. One side is brilliant, the other side, not so brilliant. The eyes also look the same but don't always see the same way. But not everything works that way. Imagine if the feet had a distinct left handed or right handed favoring for ordinary walking. We would all probably be enrolled in the Ministry Of Silly Walks if that was true.

 

[-K2-]

@Stephen Palmer ; you could say and consider all that, or, you could just say that left-handedness is the work of the devil.

It's okay, we all know already

K2

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Left handed people know its the other way around.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Heh heh! yes, sinister folk come from the dark side...
Personally, I love being left-handed, it's given me even more access to my creativity.
One brain surgeon said many years ago (I forget who he was): the brains of right handers are like chocolate soldiers, all alike, but every left hander's brain is different. Think McCartney, Hendrix, Cobain, Knopfler, and many more...