Why are sci fi fans more mature?

[-K2-]

@Dave ; I used to own/administrate a forum and website. In fairness I need to also state that I refuse to use facebook and all of the many varied social media platforms, even going back to various messenger programs, ICQ and so on due to their tracking of your activity on the web. Regardless of my tinfoil concerns and acknowledging that I'm ignorant to facebook/etc., what I've seen regarding facebook and its ilk I don't like for one reason.

There is zero organization that I can see past a chronological timeline of posts. Meaning, unlike here where discussions are categorized and sorted according to their topic's theme--and I can instantly go to them--on facebook I'd need to scroll past countless unrelated posts to get to what I'm looking for. Comments also don't work well (IMO) toward having a discussion...especially if the posts are lengthy to any degree. It makes it so that each subject is here today--gone in a minute.

That said, many/most forum software is free. Even great improvements on it. Yes, webspace costs money. But, that's offset by numerous other advantages such as massive/unlimited storage, as many email accounts as you choose, etc.-etc., up to the final benefit. Absolute control. I like the idea that forums are dictatorships to whatever degree the site owner determines. If they are overbearing, move on. Too loose allowing chaos, move on. A forum is whatever the administration deems it to be--without restriction.

I can't speak to SFFC's host provider, but the one I used I could post massive amounts of linked data and members had access to it. And it cost me nothing more. In fact, I wish I hadn't let it die in that it was unlimited server space, emails accounts, downloads, etc., all for $178.20-36 Months (4.95 USD/mo) in 2018, the domain fee was free (having had it for a few years), and when I didn't renew they even offered the whole package for half that. Most importantly, Lunarpages was a great web host.

It was an easy decision to keep it even after I let the forum slip into disuse... Stupidly, I let it go.

Facebook or a Forum? There is no question in my mind. A link is a link and a search engine result is a search engine result. People have allowed themselves to be coerced into just using facebook.

Just my opinion.

K2

 

[Alex The G and T]

I'mmature!

 

[Alex The G and T]

Aaaarrrgh kids these days... they..they... well they don't have any good role models for the art of civil discourse.

Most "Topical" television talk shows feature "pundits" who consider it to be a legitimate form of "winning" a debate as never letting their opponent finish a sentence. Shouting down, talking over, interrupting, yammering nonstop. Things which would have been considered unbelievably rude, not so long ago.

And this just in... There's a CA attorney who runs a weekly legal advice column; which my local rag carries.
This weeks topic was a Father concerned that his kid might be sending the wrong message on his application to Law School.

The kid was a member of his high school debate team. Apparently, it is now an acceptable tactic, in formal scholastic debate, to present an unintelligible flood of incomprehensible "talking points;" "Auctioneer-style," to which the respondent can't possibly make a coherent response. (They practice fast-talking.)

To his credit, the columnist responded that including a tape of this horse-hockey with the Law School application would probably get the applicant eighty-sixed; but I can't believe that the faculty advisors to the debate team would allow this sort of nonsense.

 

[Dave]

That said, many/most forum software is free. Even great improvements on it. Yes, webspace costs money. But, that's offset by numerous other advantages such as massive/unlimited storage, as many email accounts as you choose, etc.-etc., up to the final benefit. Absolute control. I like the idea that forums are dictatorships to whatever degree the site owner determines. If they are overbearing, move on. Too loose allowing chaos, move on. A forum is whatever the administration deems it to be--without restriction.

With the genealogical project, there is no budget to pay for anything. While I completely agree with you about the benefits of forums, I'm not the only person making the decision there. As for the cost - good software with support, security (and regular upgrades) and "reliable" webhosting does cost something. Sure there are free things, but you do get what you pay for. The biggest problem online is spam. Do you see much spam here? Did you think we were just very lucky? You have no idea of the war going on in the background here, fought by the moderator foot soldiers and helped enormously by the software. In fact, I'd also put the demise of message boards and Yahoo groups about 90% down to spam.

Sorry for the thread detour! To get back on track:

Most "Topical" television talk shows feature "pundits" who consider it to be a legitimate form of "winning" a debate as never letting their opponent finish a sentence. Shouting down, talking over, interrupting, yammering nonstop. Things which would have been considered unbelievably rude, not so long ago.

I also dislike that kind of TV show but I had no idea that it had spread outside of TV. Is the old-fashioned kind of formal debate dying too? Most universities and schools used to have a debating society. The producers of TV shows may think that it makes good TV to have guests with their hands at each other's throats, but I'd strongly disagree. The audience also learns very little because the guest (and it is generally politicians) is never called to account for what they claim, can fail to properly answer any questions set, and can just continue to parrot the same catchphrases.

 

[Toby Frost]

I used to be on a small forum about miniature painting, with about 50 members, of whom 20 would regularly participate. Sadly, most are now on a Facebook group, which is useless for any sort of long post and doesn’t make it easy to look up older pictures. In fact, I would say that the default internet mode of communication used to be the email-style “post”, but is now the text message. It is harder to troll people or leave stupid one-word answers and not get found out on a forum: partly because of the expected style, and partly because of the layout. Even internet dating sites seem to be moving to the text-based conversation rather than post-type messages.

Personally, I’d suggest we avoid standards of debate in universities, as that is a whole can of (political) worms in itself.

 

[-K2-]

@Dave ; Okie dokie... As to the problems Chrons is having, adjust your filters and check with XenForo. Vacuously suggested, naturally.

K2

 

[olive]

I don't think these two groups should even be compared. When you say a football fan in Chrons, I get this is someone who is here for the forum but also enjoys sports and posting to the football section and they are highly likely nowhere near what we call 'football fans' who usually don't actually enjoy sports, but a specific kind of game for one team in general. I know football fans from the UK, the US and where I live. I even met people who were banned from stadiums for life. Let's say, they are not really the reading type.

I'm a newbie, maybe I don't know much about the forum, but I have never been to a site like this in 25 years online. It looks like a special place so far and the people who run the place seem to do a good job. It's not an easy one.

But if we compare the UK and the US; European and American, the difference is pretty much the same general difference between the cultures from a foreigner's point of view. I have no idea who is from where in this forum, or who is dominant, I am not paying attention to it honestly, but I get the impression as if there is a decided negative look towards Americans and the US sites in general and it is unfair in my opinion. Because my experiences with American or UK culture in general as a Middle Easterner in various different contexts is the opposite of this. Yes, in spite of everything said and shown in the media that is the case. And I am not alone, it is the general consensus. I am talking about the people and their attitudes in general which is important at any space.

Contrary to the common belief, the USA and American culture online is far more foreigner-friendly, welcoming and politely put, far less discriminating than any European cultures, not just the UK.

 

[mosaix]

Do football fans read? and if not isn't their dialogue going to comprise solely of repeating what they heard at the match? which is generally atrocious.

Ahem...

Do you realise that there is a football (soccer) forum here on the Chrons? And, surprisingly, some Chrons members, who are known to read from time to time, actually post there.

Worth a read.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Once you’ve been spoiled by Chrons your tolerance of poor forum etiquette reduces drastically.

I recently (last May) quit playing a SW video game after I was bullied and accused of rage quitting on its associated forum. I didn’t really understand the concept of trolling beyond someone saying something silly/irrelevant in a thread and took the whole thing very personally.

Everyone I know knows what a huge SW fan I am, so for me to exit the forum, and stop playing the video game the forum supported was a big deal. I later found out from the mods I was just the latest target for these trolls. It affected me far more than I would’ve expected.

I have a membership at Absolute Write but quite honestly I’m afraid to post there after some of the nastiness I’ve seen.

What also helps is the IRL element of Chrons: we regularly meet up (the London contingent) and recently the North - and across the Irish Sea - people from Chrons meet up. It’s great to develop deeper friendships and I can’t imagine writing without being able to sound off at Dan, Peat, Harebrain, Zöe, Dave and Boneman (to mention a few). I always leave those meetings inspired (and drunk).

But I caution you all to beware @Venusian Broon who attends both the Northern and Southern Chrons meet-ups; I suspect a mole...

pH

 

[.matthew.]

Ahem...

Do you realise that there is a football (soccer) forum here on the Chrons? And, surprisingly, some Chrons members, who are known to read from time to time, actually post there.

Worth a read.

Okay, okay, okay. I've already explained once that my direct real life experience of football fans is exactly that, just my experience.

Can you also maybe realise it was a joke directed not at EVERY football fan but aimed at the fans who post all the abusive stuff on their forums (mentioned in the post above mine).

Perhaps reading it as "Do 'those' football fans read?" might help you see it as the light quip it was.

Football is a hugely popular sport and I was in no way thinking that anybody would take what I said as meaning EVERY fan, nor a deliberate insult against those who love the game.

If you or anyone else took actual offense you and they have my total apology for the misunderstanding.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

If SF fans congregated in pubs quaffing liberal amounts of lager/ale while watching films and arguing the finer points of books I have no doubt SF fans could be every bit as immature as your average Spurs fan. At least I like to think so.

That’s certainly my experience...

 

[-K2-]

I can tell... Can you spot the rabble-rouser?

K2

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

Personally, I’d suggest we avoid standards of debate in universities, as that is a whole can of (political) worms in itself.

I'm not sure I follow this point...

 

[Phyrebrat]

I'm not sure I follow this point...

current affairs are not allowed to be discussed on Chrons. We used to have a current affairs forum.

We no longer do...

pH

 

[mosaix]

Okay, okay, okay. I've already explained once that my direct real life experience of football fans is exactly that, just my experience.

Can you also maybe realise it was a joke directed not at EVERY football fan but aimed at the fans who post all the abusive stuff on their forums (mentioned in the post above mine).

Perhaps reading it as "Do 'those' football fans read?" might help you see it as the light quip it was.

Football is a hugely popular sport and I was in no way thinking that anybody would take what I said as meaning EVERY fan, nor a deliberate insult against those who love the game.

If you or anyone else took actual offense you and they have my total apology for the misunderstanding.

No offence taken, Matthew. My post was intended to be light hearted and I would have posted a :smilie: to go with it except, for some reason, when I post on my smart phone the forum drops any smilies that I include.

 

[Montero]

When I first saw the title, I was expecting the thread to be about why are sf fans more mature than fantasy fans - and was then wondering if that were true...... I get the impression that there are a lot of teenage sparkly vampire fans, but equally teenage sf fans......
So does anyone know if there are more young fantasy fans than sf?
Or am I reading sf as science fiction when I should read it as speculative fiction?

 

[.matthew.]

I get the impression that there are a lot of teenage sparkly vampire fans, but equally teenage sf fans......
So does anyone know if there are more young fantasy fans than sf?

Time to throw myself into trouble again.

I get the impression the sparkly vampire lovers are teenage girls, while teenage boys would likely prefer either sci-fi or more traditional fantasy. But judging by the popularity of YA sparkle fiction these days and the distinct lack of YA that seems to target the male demographic, I'd wager they are more into the sci-fi.

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

Also, of course, hardcore readers will have a higher vocabulary, assuming they're reading a wholesome book.

There are plenty of unwholesome books with rich vocabulary!

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

Time to throw myself into trouble again.

I get the impression the sparkly vampire lovers are teenage girls, while teenage boys would likely prefer either sci-fi or more traditional fantasy. But judging by the popularity of YA sparkle fiction these days and the distinct lack of YA that seems to target the male demographic, I'd wager they are more into the sci-fi.

From my experience with my two kids (seventh and ninth grade, respectively) and their friends: girls read fantasy (usually of the 600 pages a volume variety); both boys and girls read dystopian fiction. Not much SF being read otherwise.

 

[Extollager]

Personally, I’d suggest we avoid standards of debate in universities, as that is a whole can of (political) worms in itself.

Yes, I think so. The official standards for debate may be good, but in practice it’s far too common for universities to countenance suppression of those who dissent from a “progressive” agenda that becomes more narrow as the weeks pass. Documentation available elsewhere, mostly. Conversely, the implied standards for discussion here are pretty good. I say that as someone who has occasionally stepped over a line and drawn moderator attention.

I’d say, then, that, if there’s a pretty good level of maturity here at Chrons, one manifestation of it is a willingness to do without controversies based on hot-button topics that can be discussed elsewhere. Here, I see a readiness to allow people to comment on the basis of opinions and convictions some of which are de facto prohibited on campuses (on one hand) combined with a pretty high degree of mutual forbearance and toleration (on the other hand). The arrangement might not be up to the measure of an ideal, but it permits grownup discussion of many topics in a context of trust.