The Watch - Discworld TV series - new

[Vince W]

According to Wikipedia, Throat Dibbler is now also female

Say that again. Slowly.

 

[Vince W]

I’m going to pretend I haven’t seen this and that it doesn’t exist.

Wise and sage words.

 

[Vertigo]

No!... Just No!

I can't see many Discworld fans liking this but then I wonder how many fans of the Game of Throne books are also fans of the TV series? I suspect this is not actually targeted at existing Discworld fans.

 

[The Big Peat]

No!... Just No!

I can't see many Discworld fans liking this but then I wonder how many fans of the Game of Throne books are also fans of the TV series? I suspect this is not actually targeted at existing Discworld fans.

Why use the name if not targeting the fans? I always got the impression that the reason pre-existing media gets used so heavily for TV and movies is because the people greenlighting it are relying on a pre-existing fanbase.

Not to mention that a lot of people who'd like the idea are Discworld fans and would probably like this if there was no Discworld links.

 

[Vertigo]

Why use the name if not targeting the fans? I always got the impression that the reason pre-existing media gets used so heavily for TV and movies is because the people greenlighting it are relying on a pre-existing fanbase.

Not to mention that a lot of people who'd like the idea are Discworld fans and would probably like this if there was no Discworld links.

I think the renown of the Discworld goes far beyond the fans of the books. Most people I know have heard of both Terry Pratchett and Discworld even if they've not read many, or even any, of the books or even any books. Most of those self same people would probably watch the TV series to 'see what it's all about' because it's less effort than reading the books. I suspect many of the adaptations of very famous books are addressing that audience. I wonder what the statistics say regarding how many people who have watched the Lord of the Rings films have actually read the books?

 

[olive]

Terry Pratchett is a writer whose books are translated into dozens of languages and sold tens of millions of copies around the world without the aid of any hype, movies, tv shows, or merchandise. I'd like to get a magic wand and remove those 'factors' and watch if, for example, Martin or Rowling could do the same in an alternative history just by their books and how long. So with all due respect to other 'best selling' authors or whatever, this situation is unlikely to be compared to any other.

 

[Vertigo]

Terry Pratchett is a writer whose books are translated into dozens of languages and sold tens of millions of copies around the world without the aid of any hype, movies, tv shows, or merchandise. I'd like to get a magic wand and remove those 'factors' and watch if, for example, Martin or Rowling could do the same in an alternative history just by their books and how long. So with all due respect to other 'best selling' authors or whatever, this situation is unlikely to be compared to any other.

Hmm you might want to be a little careful there. There is a significant amount of Discworld merchandise including board, video, RPG and card games and figurines etc. there have been several TV adaptations and animated adaptations and it has (I believe) seen fewer translations than, for example, Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia.

Don't get my wrong I love the books and prefer them to any of those examples, but lets not mythologise them.

 

[The Big Peat]

I think the renown of the Discworld goes far beyond the fans of the books. Most people I know have heard of both Terry Pratchett and Discworld even if they've not read many, or even any, of the books or even any books. Most of those self same people would probably watch the TV series to 'see what it's all about' because it's less effort than reading the books. I suspect many of the adaptations of very famous books are addressing that audience. I wonder what the statistics say regarding how many people who have watched the Lord of the Rings films have actually read the books?

The Colour of Magic got viewing figures of 1.5m. I think Sky One's average is about 2m. Good Omens got 1m on BBC2. I'm not sure those audiences suggest a huge amount of interest higher than those who love Discworld to begin with. Obviously to get big they need to reach outside that core, but they're going to need that core to be there and be enthusiastic and spread the word. I certainly don't think there's a big enough potential audience to just ignore Discworld fans.

 

[olive]

Hmm you might want to be a little careful there. There is a significant amount of Discworld merchandise including board, video, RPG and card games and figurines etc. there have been several TV adaptations and animated adaptations and it has (I believe) seen fewer translations than, for example, Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia.

Don't get my wrong I love the books and prefer them to any of those examples, but lets not mythologise them.

Oh, I really don't think I am mythologizing anyone but I think you misunderstood my point. You also might be thinking from only the Western civilisation's point.

- Without the movies or the tv shows and the scale of media campaigns, Rowling and Martin wouldn't be able to reach their numbers. I love the Harry Potter universe, but this is a fact. (E: I avoided Martin, I don't want to offend anyone. It is not worth it.) As a result of big launches and media campaigns these books were picked up by huge publishing companies and followed by huge campaigns around the world.

-I'm sure there is no need to mention that these writers also made big in the social media era, and most importantly online book purchasing culture which is a very convenient medium.

This is not the way how Terry Pratchett books have gone around the world. It's a fandom that got bigger and bigger by people reading the books in places where people reached the internet technology in mid 90s and didn't even have a real social media till 2010. Before online purchase era was introduced Discworld was selling over here without any big companies. People don't read here where I live in general.

People set up amateur style publishing companies, projects to translate and publish his books in some places. Because there wasn't any place to publish them. The middle class kids who attended private high schools -who read the books in English- introduced people to Discworld. They are also the first translators. So it has grown.

Martin and Rowling were translated by big publishing companies, you could buy them everywhere. It was a big deal. Not Discworld. This situation is still pretty much the same.

-Apart from the Discworld Emporium and the dot-com, I don't know about any source dedicated Discworld merchandise which are pretty small compared to the others but then none of it is overall even comparable to the Harry Potter scale. You can buy HP or GOT merchandise everywhere.

-Those tv shows and animations are made on a small scale, separately made without any international hype. It doesn't even compare with Warner Bros productions or HBO tv shows. A mass of people didn't start to buy Discworld novels after watching them.

You'd be surprised how many Pratchett fans don't even know some of them to exist. Who recognise the shows by their names highly likely know; have read the books before.

According to wiki, "More than 80 million Discworld books have been sold in 37 languages."

So yes, there is a huuuge difference between reaching tens of millions of copies and three dozen languages in 32 years without the aid of those monstrous mediums and the hypes they created and with them in 18 years. At least to me.

I am sick of everything being put in the same place. I'm sick of being expected to go with 'each to their own' to almost everything defined 'successful' because of the hype, fame or the money it makes because of 'oh look, people love it.' I am sick of movies and tv show production companies ****ting on every possible creative work, esp. anything in connection with Hollywood pretending to promote women's and lgtb+ groups and minority rights while in reality, they don't care about any of it even tiny little bit in their huge hypocrisy. This is why I was agitated in the upcoming Netflix Sandman series thread too. I am afraid something like this will happen to Sandman because although Gaiman is supposedly involved, what does that mean now? We don't know.

I'm upset right now because of the news. I tried not to write to this thread.

 

[.matthew.]

I dislike how the heirs to Pratchett's IP have basically walked away from the project. That link to Rhianna's twitter or whatever pretty much says that most IP holders don't get a say on direction, but when they've sold 80 million copies and have the money to say no to a studio approaching you, there's no excuse to give up a damn thing. You just shake your head and give them the finger.

 

[Overread]

I dislike how the heirs to Pratchett's IP have basically walked away from the project. That link to Rhianna's twitter or whatever pretty much says that most IP holders don't get a say on direction, but when they've sold 80 million copies and have the money to say no to a studio approaching you, there's no excuse to give up a damn thing. You just shake your head and give them the finger.

Like I said earlier the project that gets proposed might well be very significantly changed by the time it gets to filming and airing. Even directors can be messed around - Serigo Leone had many of his films chopped up by the cinema group just to make the films shorter to fit into "idealised" time frames. The first western translated versions of the Ghibli films weren't just translated incorrectly, but even had parts chopped and moved around to change the story (its now rather famous that the second time Disney translated and western released them the studio sent Disney a sword with the phrase "no cuts" attached to it).

And those are "finished" projects.

I think the issue is that the studio has a contract that allows them to change things ,but also that at some level removes the original content controller from controlling the IP as much as they might otherwise like. I think its the reason we've some strong IP that has never gone to hollywood or TV because the company behind them doesn't want to lose such control. It's getting better, but there's still, esp in the USA I would say, not just an attitude but a culture of changing the core story to fit with the vision of others rather than the original creation.

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

- Without the movies or the tv shows and the scale of media campaigns, Rowling and Martin wouldn't be able to reach their numbers. I love the Harry Potter universe, but this is a fact. (E: I avoided Martin, I don't want to offend anyone. It is not worth it.) As a result of big launches and media campaigns these books were picked up by huge publishing companies and followed by huge campaigns around the world.

To be fair, though, Harry Potter was selling huge numbers well before the movies started coming out.

 

[.matthew.]

Like I said earlier the project that gets proposed might well be very significantly changed by the time it gets to filming and airing.

Which is known to everyone, so it's up to already wealthy IP holders to hold out for extra rights and not just sign away the name and characters to a company who has no interest in protecting the franchise as a whole.

 

[olive]

To be fair, though, Harry Potter was selling huge numbers well before the movies started coming out.

I should think so. I was a pre-ordering reader myself. But over 500 million copies? That is more than half a billion. It's nearly 200 million more than the entire population of the USA and nearly the %75 of the population of continental Europe. Give it some time. Apparently it is going strong which is good, I'd like the young ones reading HP rather than something like twilight. But do we really think it could have even come close to half of that if not for the movies, the huge media campaigns in all these years? The publishing company that picked HP up over here is owned by the fifth biggest bank in the country. LOL How many people are there in the world who haven't heard about Harry Potter, know something about it even not interested in it any way?

On the other hand, there is a writer and a series of books, masses of people are not even aware they exist. A writer with unseen/unknown fandom(s) around the world exchanging his quotes, using them to describe their own conditions, society they live in at places he has never been promoted or even presented in the media. How is this not a huge difference? I am not being unfair. But I feel weird now. I have no idea why.

 

[The Ace]

Anyone remember, "The Dark is Rising ?" Susan Cooper's brilliant novel reduced to Ian, "I'll drop my rousers and bend over for anyone who offers me money," McShane, and Christopher, "When I read the book - You must've been the only one involved in that project who did," Eccleston, fumbling around blindly ?

Susan Cooper was brought back from the verge of suicide by three generations of readers telling the film-makers exactly what they thought of this travesty, I think PTerry's fans should do the same, and make sure this abhomination never sees daylight.

 

[Overread]

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For those not keeping up left to right are:​

Cheery - Angua- Lady Sybil - Vims - Detritus - Carrot​

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Personally I rather like Detritus, he at least looks like he's attempting to be what he is in the books and I prefer his adaptation here to some of the BBC/sky attempts at a troll.​

 

[Vladd67]

Less said about Lady Sybil the better.

 

[Pyan]

Not on my screens...

 

[CupofJoe]

Vimes looks okay [given that it should have been played by Bob Peck]. And Detritus looks good too.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

If I watch it it won’t be in an expectation of seeing Discworld