What the Fantasy Genre Needs.

[BAYLOR]

Both fantasy and SF seem in rude health to me. (At conventions, I sometimes hear dire mutterings about the impending death of SF as I sit there with my bulging rucksack full of excellent newly-published SF novels.) And the increase in attention via high-profile films and TV series over the last couple of decades can hardly be hurting book sales. Sub-genres rise and fall in popularity, so I guess a better question would be "what would it take to bring my favourite subgenre back to prominence?"

Titan books is going to be doing new Conan the Barbarian stories.

And recently , I found new/odd heroic fantasy series Kothar the Barbarian by Gardner Fox that id never previously heard of .

 

[KGeo777]

Another difference between LOTR and GoT is that the latter is written entirely for commercial purposes. The author is getting paid like Stephen King.
He may not have a good idea--but the big companies are paying him to keep churning them out.

And a difference between LOTR and Conan is that Conan is not shackled to any single story line.
People tend to think of the character before any story.
Is there a desire to have the further adventures of Frodo or Gandalf?

Gandalf vs Dracula?
Or What If Gandalf Walked the Earth Today?

 

[BAYLOR]

Another difference between LOTR and GoT is that the latter is written entirely for commercial purposes. The author is getting paid like Stephen King.
He may not have a good idea--but the big companies are paying him to keep churning them out.

And a difference between LOTR and Conan is that Conan is not shackled to any single story line.
People tend to think of the character before any story.
Is there a desire to have the further adventures of Frodo or Gandalf?

Gandalf vs Dracula?
Or What If Gandalf Walked the Earth Today?
View attachment 84266

Ive seen that Conan Comic but Swear the was abetter one where Conan was in the present , adapted and formed a street gang

I also recalll a comic where Conan Met and teamed up with Elric , one where met Solomon Kane and one were met King Kull and yes there was one where he battled Wolverine.

 

[KGeo777]

Did he form a street gang? Or was it him taking over one by defeating the leader?

Because he was more independent usually--he might join pirates or an army but he wasn't organizing it.
I assume when he became king--it was because he defeated the ruler and the army then supported him.

 

[BAYLOR]

Did he form a street gang? Or was it him taking over one by defeating the leader?

Because he was more independent usually--he might join pirates or an army but he wasn't organizing it.
I assume when he became king--it was because he defeated the ruler and the army then supported him.

It's been a long time , I can't remember.

 

[Vince W]

 

[BAYLOR]

Ive seen both of those.

 

[Eternity_TARO]

The counter to maybe lies at the feet of magicians and their lack of imagination. I always thought of mages / wizards as the equivalent of academics or theologians or philosophers - in their ivory towers directing all their brainpower to the abstract rather than the practical. How many dragons dance on the end of a wand?

The problem though is that this is just not realistic world building. Every single wizard in that world isn't going to be an academic mage at the top of his craft pursuing the secrets of magic. There will be plenty of "meh" mages or even failed mages that would know "enough" magic to make a magic shovel.

THe vast majority of human invention is based on problem-solving. That is the drive behind free market economics. So, if you have a "magical" society this would apply as well and you'd get an entire magical socio-economic system and this is something 95% of fantasy writers COMPLETELY ignore and hence their worlds are shallow caricatures of reality.

 

[hitmouse]

The problem though is that this is just not realistic world building. Every single wizard in that world isn't going to be an academic mage at the top of his craft pursuing the secrets of magic. There will be plenty of "meh" mages or even failed mages that would know "enough" magic to make a magic shovel.

THe vast majority of human invention is based on problem-solving. That is the drive behind free market economics. So, if you have a "magical" society this would apply as well and you'd get an entire magical socio-economic system and this is something 95% of fantasy writers COMPLETELY ignore and hence their worlds are shallow caricatures of reality.

"You deserve the services of a great wizard, but I'm afraid you'll have to be glad of the aid of a second-rate pickpocket."—Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn by Peter S Beagle.

 

[DeathFusion]

and for Gorge RR Martin to finish his God Damn book.

I remember rereading the series back in 2016 so I would have it fresh in my memory when Winds of Winter comes out. Now, I am starting to think it never will.

 

[BAYLOR]

I remember rereading the series back in 2016 so I would have it fresh in my memory when Winds of Winter comes out. Now, I am starting to think it never will.

While your waiting for the try Iid, Gardens of the Moon by Seven Erikson. which is complete at 10 books
also The Black Company series by Glen Cook . The Kane The Mystic Swordsman series by Karl Edward Wagner 5 book and compete suggest starting with Bloodstone.
Conan The Hour of the Dragon by Robert E Howard
The Dark World by Henry Kuttner
Black Gods Kiss by C L Moore
The Lost Continent by C J Cutclife Hynd
The Ship of Ishtar by Abraham Merritt

All good stuff.

 

[BcRedneck]

Gardens of the moon was good. I was borrowing them from the asylum while I was locked up. They finally let me out in the middle of book3.

 

[Vince W]

I'd like to see a return to magic being more difficult than simply waving hands and sticks at things. Sorcery should require personal sacrifice that involves mortal danger to the sorcerer and those around them.

 

[BAYLOR]

I'd like to see a return to magic being more difficult than simply waving hands and sticks at things. Sorcery should require personal sacrifice that involves mortal danger to the sorcerer and those around them.

I like that.

 

[BAYLOR]

Sure, fantasy in sense of fantastical magic stories has been around forever. Tolkien didn't invent dwarves, elves, wizards or dragons. What he did do was synthesize mythological figures into a vast and coherent world which had all the richness and realism* of a novel for adults. I don't think it had been done before, and IMHO that is what we understand by the 'fantasy genre'. Nobody before or since him has come close.

*in the sense of depth and consistency of worldbuilding as well as psychological realism. Not scientific realism of course. Just thought I'd cover all the bases by pointing that out.

Tolkien did it so well ,that when you read his books, you can believe that such place could exist.

 

[Aknot]

While not the same, the early works of Joe Abercrombie has some of the dark and gritty tone of Conan and the like, while adding depth that the pulp stories does not have (for good and bad).

 

[BAYLOR]

While not the same, the early works of Joe Abercrombie has some of the dark and gritty tone of Conan and the like, while adding depth that the pulp stories does not have (for good and bad).

Ive read the firs three books Abercrombie's series . Dark, Gritty and terrific stuff.

 

[Draven Vertigo]

The variety of books that we have in fantasy is truly staggering, that no can argue. We have all kinds of fantasy , Urban fantasy , Comic fantasy , sci fantasy , Alt history fantsy epic multi volume fantasy ( make It stop ! make It stop ! , It Burns ! ) with books averaging 800 to 900 pages, that have character glossary indexes so big that by the time you get to page one of the actual novel , you've fallen asleep from boredom and exhaustion and worse by, the time you get to that first page, you forgotten those names completely . ( for the record I love some of those and im having a little fun here) I do think that along the way, something has become lost in the genre . Gone is heroic fantasy with the lone single barbarian hero (male of female ) Warrior who does battle with the evil Demon, Monster, Wizard or whatever in the stygian darkness of the forbidden , forgotten prehuman ruins. No one seems to write those kinds of stories anymore. Yes, I know the limitations that such stories have but ,even so , they can be so much fun to read and to me, that gives them a point and purpose . Perhaps the world and the reading public has move past such things and perhaps im being a bit silly and sentimental . So be it. I remember when they stopped issuing Conan pastiches a few years back, it might be that that was the final end of the line for traditional heroic fantasy. Im thinking that if the Conan film in 2011 had maybe been a hit, perhaps that might have reignited interest in heroic fantasy again .

Thoughts?

Hello Baylor

As it just so happens I think that I am and have been writing the very thing you are referring to in this post. Although I am very new to all of this and probably wont be able to do it justice. I've had little bits of it critiqued by fellow peers in a class I took at UCLA extension a few years back and they told me that when people ask what my story is like to just say it Conan the Barbarian in Space. I'm hoping to get some feedback from the group once I reach the 30 post minimum.

 

[BAYLOR]

Hello Baylor

As it just so happens I think that I am and have been writing the very thing you are referring to in this post. Although I am very new to all of this and probably wont be able to do it justice. I've had little bits of it critiqued by fellow peers in a class I took at UCLA extension a few years back and they told me that when people ask what my story is like to just say it Conan the Barbarian in Space. I'm hoping to get some feedback from the group once I reach the 30 post minimum.

If I may offer some suggestions

Bloodstone by karl Edward Wagner The Kane the Mystic Swordsman series. Kane is interesting character in that he's an heroic villain /anti hero and he's immortal. There are 5 books in this series in all.
The Dark World by Henry Kuttner This sword ans story story has a most usual protagonist
Black Gods Kiss by C L Moore This contains all of her wonderful Jirel of Jory stories
Kothar the Swordsman by Gardner Fox
The Lost Continent by C J Cutclife Hynd. This was the first ever fantasy novel dating with Atlantis
The Complete Enchanter by L Spague De Camp and Lin Carter
The Ship of Ishtar by Abraham Merritt


I have other books and stories to suggest but I will leave it there.

 

[KGeo777]

Come to think of it, Baylor the Barbarian would be a good series name.