Age and the internet.

[TheEndIsNigh]

@TheEndIsNigh No one has ever called me a Luddite before and I don't think I could ever be called a Luddite, but the number of occasions when I have lost my physical keys or accidentally locked myself out of the house, can be counted on one single hand, while the number of times that my phone battery has died, (or I've had no reception, or can't connect to WiFi) are too numerous to count. In my anecdote, the problem was that the person couldn't actually find anywhere to charge her phone. In addition, this thread is (was) about the difficulties faced in an increasingly changing technological world, by a generation who may or may not have less capacity to keep up (or maybe just don't wish to) and how there are no alternatives. There ought to always be alternatives. (Maybe the alternative in the anecdotal case is instead of keeping a key under the flower pot, you keep a charged phone charger there.)




I'm guessing it's a Bugatti La Voiture Noire?

You've given me an idea for a "Product".

If it works, I'll share the profits.

 

[Dave]

You've given me an idea for a "Product".

Is it a phone charger disguised as a flower pot?

 

[JimC]

"I'm guessing it's a Bugatti La Voiture Noire?"

Naw, a 65 year old T-Bird that I've owned for 55 years.

 

[Dave]

@TheEndIsNigh has a point though. There are some great advantages to having the Internet which might be forgotten in this thread that is mainly a big moan about technology. I feel another of my anecdotes coming, but I once remember having an argument with someone about the song The Theme from Peter Gunn which lasted for months. He maintained that it wasn't a cover and that it had been written especially for the film, The Blues Brothers, and was completely adamant that I was wrong. It got to the point where he got upset and could hardly speak to me. I wasn't really bothered, except that I knew I was right. One day, he came and apologised and said I was correct. The point is that this could never happen today, you just Google on your smartphone and it tells you that it was written by Henry Mancini for the Peter Gunn TV show. The downside of that is that it is the death of Pub quizzes!

 

[JimC]

I take it he was too young to remember it playing during the TV series?
And that the series came twenty years before the Blues Brothers?

 

[Dave]

I'm too young to have watched the TV series myself, but yes he was quite young. And I can't even remember the last time I looked up the answer to something in a book. My parents used to have several encyclopedias at home. I don't think I have a single one. I mean, selling encyclopedias door to door used to be a big business. Now we have all the knowledge of the world at my fingertips, and we still have no sense about how to use it.

 

[Montero]

Two mobile phone related things.

1. My bank account is now insisting on me having their app for security. (Grump.)

2. Went on a train journey last year for the first time in years and there were sockets in the carriage for charging mobile phones. Whoa. And on every station platform posters reminding you to take the phone with you that you'd plugged in to charge on the train and giving stats on how many finish up in lost property each year. Ah, the world is advancing.

 

[-K2-]

I'm too young to have watched the TV series myself, but yes he was quite young. And I can't even remember the last time I looked up the answer to something in a book. My parents used to have several encyclopedias at home. I don't think I have a single one. I mean, selling encyclopedias door to door used to be a big business. Now we have all the knowledge of the world at my fingertips, and we still have no sense about how to use it.

We tried contacting libraries when we decided to give away a second identical set of Britannicas. These were the finest they offered. Leather bound, gold leaf and so on, brand new, never opened. Since they were a '80s set, besides all the in brief editions, and the detailed editions, specialized index books and so on, that also meant they came with the annual news and science update editions...So it was a lot of books and a lot of financial investment.

Most libraries complained because there were so many volumes being older...We argued that since current editions are smaller, that meant they had to 'cut' information each year. So in a sense, they were more complete and in depth. No individuals we knew had room, and only three libraries had an interest. Each of them offered to take the books whereupon the general contractor they used for all books, would take them and grind them up for insulation pulp.

Our first thought was, we'd build a tower to the ignorance of man in the front yard with them before we'd allow that. Ultimately, they went to either the Salvation Army or Purple Heart (can't recall which). I'm still not sure what level of Hell burners and shredders of hardcover books go to. I just know, I'm not going there.

Yeah-yeah...my sins are much worse, but almost worth it.

K2

 

[AlexH]

@TheEndIsNigh has a point though. There are some great advantages to having the Internet which might be forgotten in this thread that is mainly a big moan about technology. I feel another of my anecdotes coming, but I once remember having an argument with someone about the song The Theme from Peter Gunn which lasted for months. He maintained that it wasn't a cover and that it had been written especially for the film, The Blues Brothers, and was completely adamant that I was wrong. It got to the point where he got upset and could hardly speak to me. I wasn't really bothered, except that I knew I was right. One day, he came and apologised and said I was correct. The point is that this could never happen today, you just Google on your smartphone and it tells you that it was written by Henry Mancini for the Peter Gunn TV show. The downside of that is that it is the death of Pub quizzes!

There is no doubting there are great advantages to the Internet, it's the reliance on the Internet and technology that I see as the problem.

 

[Foxbat]

There is no doubting there are great advantages to the Internet, it's the reliance on the Internet and technology that I see as the problem.

This is my biggest concern too. All eggs in one basket is just asking for trouble. If somebody loses a key, it’s a key to one specific place. If somebody loses a phone, it could be a key to almost every aspect of a person’s life.

 

[Montero]

The ever expanding use of Smart phones may come to a juddering halt.

The Metals Used To Make Smartphones Could Run Out Soon

Experts at Yale University recently warned that many of the metals critical in the manufacture of electronics, such as tablets and smartphones, could be in short supply in the near future.

www.techtimes.com

No sooner have banks worked them into their security features they may have to take them back out again.

 

[Dave]

The solutions to that are very simple - to re-use the materials from old phones rather than throw them away in landfill, or better still, manufacture phones that can be upgraded rather than discarded, and to stop the business models that rely upon consumers having to replace phones regularly, instead with a business model in which they keep their phones, repair them and replace individual parts. It might look simple and commonsense but our society isn't geared up to do this. There are no standardised parts in any phone, car, or household appliance. Every manufacturer makes something different, on purpose, so that it cannot be more cheaply copied by a competitor.

 

[-K2-]

The solutions to that are very simple - to re-use the materials from old phones rather than throw them away in landfill, or better still, manufacture phones that can be upgraded rather than discarded, and to stop the business models that rely upon consumers having to replace phones regularly, instead with a business model in which they keep their phones, repair them and replace individual parts. It might look simple and commonsense but our society isn't geared up to do this. There are no standardised parts in any phone, car, or household appliance. Every manufacturer makes something different, on purpose, so that it cannot be more cheaply copied by a competitor.

That sounds nice, but a phone is the size it is due to not being able to switch out parts. Otherwise, it would be MUCH bigger. They do reuse materials to some degree, but as 'far as I know,' it's mostly reclaiming precious metals. Past that, you could actually upgrade components in it, but the skills and equipment required is beyond a vast majority of the peoples' abilities...and...it likely won't end up as durable as a factory offering.

K2

 

[Vladd67]

7 modular phones that either succeeded or failed miserably

Project Ara? More like Project Sayonara.

www.cnet.com

 

[Dave]

That sounds nice, but a phone is the size it is due to not being able to switch out parts. Otherwise, it would be MUCH bigger. They do reuse materials to some degree, but as 'far as I know,' it's mostly reclaiming precious metals. Past that, you could actually upgrade components in it, but the skills and equipment required is beyond a vast majority of the peoples' abilities...and...it likely won't end up as durable as a factory offering.

I did say it sounded simple but isn't, but surely the problems you have identified are design problems, and it is only because there is no incentive to change that it seems impossible to achieve. When I say incentive, really that is a financial incentive that is missing, because no one does anything out of altruism. They reclaim some precious metals because it is profitable to do so, but recycling is never as efficient as reuse. In the UK the Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Regulations 2013 (WEEE) regulated to reduce the amount of waste electrical and electronic equipment incinerated or sent to landfill sites by encouraging the recovery, reuse and recycling of products and components, but that doesn't go nearly as far as necessary to prevent the warnings like that @Montero posted.

Anyhow, this has little to do with age and the Internet, sorry for the interruption.

 

[Danny McG]

 

[AlexH]

As well as missing the doctor's appointment, other things I couldn't do while my mobile phone wasn't working (a replacement SIM has fixed it):
buy some running shoes online because I couldn't complete the transaction without a texted code
sign up for an Apple ID

As it turns out, the replacement SIM didn't fix the problem, and I almost missed another doctor's appointment.

I had a very stressful 45 minutes trying to get a working phone to take the call.

I felt paranoid checking my phone all morning, but then noticed the signal had completely gone again (why only when I have a doctor's appointment?).

I needed a safety pin or something to remove the SIM from the dodgy phone but couldn't find one. I found a couple of contenders, but they were too thin. I eventually found a safety pin, but it was one with a coating, so I had to find some wire strippers to strip the coating.

I wanted to try the SIM in a really old mobile I still use as an alarm, but the SIM I had was a micro SIM, and I needed a bigger SIM to fit the old phone. So I made the micro SIM into a bigger SIM to fit the old phone.

Then it wouldn't work (maybe this old phone is 1G if that was even a thing).

So I found another old but newer phone and that worked.

Then I was on the phone trying to find out from reception if the doctor had already called, but they weren't able to tell me as the doctor was from another practice they'd referred me to. So I got the phone number of that practice and found out they hadn't called me after all.

Phew.

I've been waiting for John Lewis to get back to me for two weeks on this problem (and months for the GPS issue on the phone). Maybe I should just buy a new phone and try to return the dodgy phone for a refund.

 

[Foxbat]

As it turns out, the replacement SIM didn't fix the problem, and I almost missed another doctor's appointment.

I had a very stressful 45 minutes trying to get a working phone to take the call.

I felt paranoid checking my phone all morning, but then noticed the signal had completely gone again (why only when I have a doctor's appointment?).

I needed a safety pin or something to remove the SIM from the dodgy phone but couldn't find one. I found a couple of contenders, but they were too thin. I eventually found a safety pin, but it was one with a coating, so I had to find some wire strippers to strip the coating.

I wanted to try the SIM in a really old mobile I still use as an alarm, but the SIM I had was a micro SIM, and I needed a bigger SIM to fit the old phone. So I made the micro SIM into a bigger SIM to fit the old phone.

Then it wouldn't work (maybe this old phone is 1G if that was even a thing).

So I found another old but newer phone and that worked.

Then I was on the phone trying to find out from reception if the doctor had already called, but they weren't able to tell me as the doctor was from another practice they'd referred me to. So I got the phone number of that practice and found out they hadn't called me after all.

Phew.

I've been waiting for John Lewis to get back to me for two weeks on this problem (and months for the GPS issue on the phone). Maybe I should just buy a new phone and try to return the dodgy phone for a refund.

I admire your perseverance. If it had been me, I would have jumped up and down on the phone until it was just a pile of broken plastic long before now. I once got so frustrated with a non-printing printer that I punched it so hard, I split the plastic casing (and gave myself extremely sore knuckles).

 

[AlexH]

I admire your perseverance. If it had been me, I would have jumped up and down on the phone until it was just a pile of broken plastic long before now. I once got so frustrated with a non-printing printer that I punched it so hard, I split the plastic casing (and gave myself extremely sore knuckles).

I won't go into my experiences with printers.

Technology is giving me a bad name. I was given a lecture from a receptionist this afternoon about making sure I keep my mobile with me and answer calls when I'm expecting a call from the doctor. I'd already been on the phone for 10 minutes by then (trying to find out why the doctor hadn't called me for my planned appointment this morning), so just thought "of course, why wouldn't I?" Only after, I realised something must be flagged on my account about me missing calls from a doctor, despite me telling them the reason why. This morning's call didn't happen because I was booked in for the wrong date! I'm 99.999% sure I'm right, because today is before my birthday, and the date they actually booked me is after my birthday - I remember noticing the appointment date I was told was just before my birthday. I doubt someone would've booked me in for the wrong date with good old pen and paper!

 

[Pyan]

Interesting table from Hive security systems: