Has The Fantasy Genre become Stuck in One Place ?

[Luiglin]

Apologies for the grammar in my post. I really shouldn't rush a submit before dinner

 

[Overread]

I think its important to remember that fantasy as a genre is quite young in comparison to many others. In addition its real growth happened all in one age with some huge influences that have left their mark on the works. Tolkien has left a vast influence, but there are many others too from around that same point in time who were working with similar themes and ideas who were also part of that whole revolution in creating fantasy. And once it got going they all stole/borrowed from each other and built upon that foundation.

Today we've some big franchises that are lasting because they don't want to step outside of the mould they created for themselves - eg DnD - which in turn influences the creative ideas and inspiration for new generations.


I think there is some element of things changing though, we've already got a shift form what many might consider a "low magic" fantasy background toward what many consider a more Epic or high magic influence. Which is a steady shift from Tolkien toward influences like World of Warcraft.



One thing I think that hinders fantasy is that it relies very heavily on tropes and themes established by others in common understanding in order to achieve its stories. eg if I say dragon or elf or warg or wyvern whilst each one has no fixed meaning, they do create in the minds eye an image/idea/concept which will be roughly similar for many people. Similar enough that you can drop those words in without description and people understand what you mean - more or less. You can then tweak that mental image to suit your own story without having to go into deep world building. I think that in its own way holds fantasy back from some of the freedom of creation.


That said I think its also influences like the cinemas who haven't really grasped fantasy in a big way. Again we might say Lord of the Rings the film squashed everything yet again, but I think its just the studios haven't got any writers burning with desire and the right contacts to push it through. Esp when you look at how popular the superhero films are.

 

[tachyon]

I've been thinking about the list I gave and wondering why I left out stuff like Illona Andrews, Jenn Lyons, Evan Winter, Tochi Onyebuchi, R.F. Kuang, K. Arsenault Rivera, V.E. Schwab, among others.

I think the point I was trying to make was that while the series I listed in the post above are fairly recent, they're not new-last-year recent. All but one are completed series, and have at least 3 books, with the first book published at least 5 years ago.

And again, I was only listing heroic/epic fantasy, big series, second world, and stuff I've read, listed from memory.

The authors I list in this post are also writing second world, heroic/epic, but are much more recent and in many cases have unfinished series.

And I'm stressing again that this heroic/epic/high fantasy is only a slice of the genre! And I'm completely ignoring stand-alone books (The Raven Tower, The Goblin Emperor, etc.)

 

[sule]

I'll add my voice to the chorus of others; fantasy has not become stuck in one place or mode and is constantly evolving and reinventing itself. Sure, the pulp fantasy of Howard's day seemed to stunt it, but there was and still is so much space within the genre to explore that many writers have built on Tolkien's work in expansive and interesting ways. Even within the most Tolkien-esque genre of epic fantasy (secondary worlds, massive worldbuilding) there is a huge variety, for example Sanderson's Stormlight Archive is nothing like Jemisin's Broken Earth trilogy. Like others have pointed out, there is also urban fantasy, flintlock fantasy and surrealist fantasy just to name a few.

In short, there is just as much variety within fantasy as there is within every genre because each writer brings their own voice and their own style to it. The only way that fantasy (or any genre) could be stuck in a rut is if there was only one writer publishing work in that genre--and only then if that one writer was a hack. As long as there are different writers with different backgrounds writing fantasy, it will continue to breathe and branch out in new and interesting ways--and that, in turn, will draw in new writers with their own way of telling stories.

 

[Randy M.]

Urban fantasy is interesting, because it feels like a clean break from Tolkien, and seems to draw its inspiration from horror stereotypes and some sort of paganism as much as The Lord of the Rings. I wonder what the equivalent for urban fantasy is, that popularised the genre and set out its "rules" (assuming that one exists). I can only think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Fritz Leiber (Conjure Wife, "Smoke Ghost," Our Lady of Darkness). Peter Beagle (A Fine and Private Place; "Lila the Werewolf"). Anthony Boucher ("The Compleat (stet) Werewolf"). Manly Wade Wellman (the John the Balladeer stories). Jack Williamson (Darker than You Think). Henry Kuttner, C. L. Moore, Fred Brown, Theodore Sturgeon, and pretty much anyone who wrote for Unknown magazine and many who later wrote for The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, including Shirley Jackson and Richard Matheson; several of the stories I read by Charles Beaumont this year were like precursors of the sub-genre. Contemporary urban fantasy draws from those sources (whether the writers realize it or not) and from horror mythology, but does something different. You could probably also bring into the conversation the stories of John Collier (Fancies and Goodnights).

 

[hitmouse]

Urban fantasy is interesting, because it feels like a clean break from Tolkien, and seems to draw its inspiration from horror stereotypes and some sort of paganism as much as The Lord of the Rings. I wonder what the equivalent for urban fantasy is, that popularised the genre and set out its "rules" (assuming that one exists). I can only think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I think that urban fantasy started in the Prancing Pony, an inn in Bree.

 

[williamjm]

I think how you feel about this probably depends on the books you happen to have read. I read quite a few fantasy books in 2020 and I would say out of them that only one (Samantha Shannon's The Priory of the Orange Tree) really felt like something heavily influenced by Tolkien and the other big epic fantasies of the 20th Century - and even then it was clearly trying to deviate from that template in some respects. On the other hand, with so many books being published nowadays I'm sure I could easily have read a dozen epic fantasy doorstoppers instead, and perhaps then I'd be getting a bit bored with the genre.

 

[nixie]

Another author i forgot to mention Robert Holdstock, Mythago Woods.

 

[Astro Pen]

Introducing the Spellworld octology where we join Princess Acenia as she starts her quest for the powerful Sword of Thrace that will liberate her land of Magnolia from the crushing grip of the evil Tharg and his dragon army with the help of the wizard Melonbane and the secret book of the ancients.

Yeah. Stuck.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think that anyone who thinks that the fantasy genre is stuck in one place is not reading very broadly in the genre. Whether that is because they subconsciously seek out what looks familiar (even though they may be a bit tired of it), or have given up on the genre years ago and don't know what is currently out there, or for some other reason, I don't know. Probably it is a different reason for different people. Anyway, there is all kinds of fantasy out there that is in no way like Tolkien or epic fantasy, especially if one reads a lot of YA fantasy.

 

[BAYLOR]

Another author i forgot to mention Robert Holdstock, Mythago Woods.

An underrated and under appreciated author.

 

[BAYLOR]

Too Long A Sacrifice by Mildred Downy Broxon To a degree, that one fits the urban fantasy mold.

 

[The Big Peat]

Fantasy was never just Tolkien and gets less so every year at a seemingly ever increasing rate. As Teresa said, anyone who thinks differently simply isn't reading broadly enough in the genre.

To anyone who thinks differently -

Have you read any cultivation fantasy recently? Or any Wuxia? Have you read any of the fantasy tinged retellings of history such as The Poppy War or A Declaration of the Rights of Magicians? Have you read Brennan's tale of a scholar translating draconic texts in Turning Darkness Into Light? Or the satire of Orconomics or the pop-culture referencing Gideon the Ninth? Did you read James' Black Leopard, Red Wolf? Or Clark's Ring Shout?

Have you read any TJ Klune, or T Kingfisher, or KD Edwards? Have you read Aliette de Bodard or Tashi Suri?

Or even just the last five years of the World Fantasy Award novel winners?

I haven't read all of these. I don't have time to. Nobody has time to keep up with all the new releases these years. I'd also add very few - of which I'm not one - want to read all of them, given how wide ranging the genre has got. I'm staring at an unread purchases of 2020 a fellow book blogger has done - a very active one - and it's a pretty full sheet of A4. And I don't think they've even touched some major genre releases like Rhythm of War or Peace Talks.

The fantasy genre has never been less stagnant.

p.s. The War for the Oaks is probably the seminal Urban Fantasy text.

p.p.s. Heroic Fantasy and Swords & Sorcery are on the march again, if they ever went away. Look at Kings of the Wyld, or Williams' The Copper Cat, or De Castell's Greatcoats series, to pick just three quickly.

 

[Piman25]

I attended a lecture by Orson Scott Card in defense of Science Fiction. He argued it is not all space opera, there is so much more depth and breadth than people think. He then gave some excellent examples.

He then went on to say, in all seriousness, not as jest or to prove a point; 'unlike Westerns- I have no interest in reading the same story of the lone hero coming into town and saving the day to the ride off into the sunset.'

HUH?

I am also a fan of Westerns, and while there are many tales like he described, that genre too has a lot of originality and creativity that goes well beyond the bounds of the lone cowboy saving the day.

I think fantasy is alive and well. There will always be the "traditionalists" but there will always be someone changinging definitions and creating new traditions.

 

[BAYLOR]

It's interesting to see how Pratchett's Disk World evolved from a cliched medieval fantasy world to a medieval world with a Victorian overlay.

There is so much depth, imagination and story telling dimension to Disk World. it has no equal.

 

[AlexH]

I think Tolkien's influence is difficult to overstate, and, imo, the genre remains tied to his template - basically Western, essentially British, basically mediaeval, essentially male. There are plenty of other types of fantasies from elsewhere - for instance Tomi Adeyemi's Children of Blood and Bone and Children of Virtue and Vengeance - but these, alas, are modern exceptions. I hope such works don't constitute a blip in the generally male, Western style of things. I'm aware that lots of fantasy authors are female, but unfortunately women's work has been massively downplayed by the male-dominated publishing industry, even when, as with Ursula LeGuin, they were globally recognised.

On your modern exceptions point, I'm not well-read, but while it certainly wasn't the case until recent years, current female fantasy authors are certainly closing in on male fantasy authors as a whole. The industry is thankfully no longer male-dominated (though I would imagine there is still a way to go). J.K. Rowling is the biggest selling author of them all. When it comes to YA fantasy, I get the impression female authors are more favoured, which seems possible given a few studies have shown teenage girls are more likely to be fiction readers than teenage boys. Perhaps this will lead to the gap closing even more in general and adult fantasy.

In terms of lead characters, it's a sad fact that male readers are much less likely to read female-led stories than female readers are to read male-led stories. But hopefully this is changing. Perhaps J.K. Rowling was clever in creating a male-lead in Harry Potter with strong female characters alongside him.

For short stories (I don't read many novels), fantasy is more diverse than ever in terms of the authors getting published and everything imaginable in the stories themselves. Female editors and authors are no longer the exception. Whenever I list my favourite short stories, I notice most from the past few years are by female authors, whereas pre-2010 and certainly pre-2000, female authors rarely get a look in.

 

[KGeo777]

If they did stories similar to 1920s or 30s pulps, young male readership might go up again.

I know one criticism of Harry Potter is that never seems to do anything on his own-he is
dependent on the committee of friends he has to accomplish things.
People still read old pulp stories because the idea of a lone hero accomplishing something
is ancient story-telling and never becomes quaint.

A hero going into a cave alone is often more suspenseful than if he has a United Colors of Benetton coalition with him.

 

[BAYLOR]

If they did stories similar to 1920s or 30s pulps, young male readership might go up again.

I know one criticism of Harry Potter is that never seems to do anything on his own-he is
dependent on the committee of friends he has to accomplish things.
People still read old pulp stories because the idea of a lone hero accomplishing something
is ancient story-telling and never becomes quaint.

A hero going into a cave alone is often more suspenseful than if he has a United Colors of Benetton coalition with him.

Robert E Howard was so good at creating those kinds of standalone heroes and stories and so was, Clark Ashton Smith , Fritz Leiber, Henry Kuttner, C L Moore, Edgar Rice Burroughs , Karl Edward Wagner , David Gemmel , Poul Anderson , jack Vance Den Wolfe , Tanith Lee.


I will always have a soft spot for those kinds of stories and characters.

 

[Pyan]

If people keep buying the 'classic' D&D, questing, sword and sorcery type of fantasy, there is no reason at all for people to stop writing it. If it sells and makes money for the author, surely that's a good thing - personally I've no time for the critics that tell me a book is not worth reading because the subject is clichéd, I'll decide that, thank you. What I want to know is if the writing is good and if (with my sad predilection for the 'classic' fantasy novel) I will enjoy it.

 

[Pyan]

I think that anyone who thinks that the fantasy genre is stuck in one place is not reading very broadly in the genre.... Anyway, there is all kinds of fantasy out there that is in no way like Tolkien or epic fantasy...

Absolutely, Teresa. Personally I'm a great fan of (and strongly recommend) the Rivers of London series by Ben Aaronovitch. It's not your stereotypical fantasy at all, but it definitely falls into the genre.