Why Glory

[Wayne Mack]

I wish I went here in the beginning perhaps then I would have had a better idea of what I'm doing and not doing and not wasting time.

Getting something written is always the first step and many people never complete that. It is not a wasted step and it provides a basis for review. Even the best authors have edits and rewrites. Lastly, don't give too much credence to the opinions of a single critiquer unless the comments also resonate with you as a writer.

For a fast-paced tale, perhaps it is not necessary to have a lot of motivational detail for the character. If you want to go back an revise to add some color to the character, remember to have fun while doing it. It is not that the first draft was bad, it is only that one can continually make a draft a little better.

 

[Lafayette]

Getting something written is always the first step and many people never complete that. It is not a wasted step and it provides a basis for review. Even the best authors have edits and rewrites. Lastly, don't give too much credence to the opinions of a single critiquer unless the comments also resonate with you as a writer.

I try to keep this in mind when reading them. I believe writing (with a conscientious writer in mind as oppose to a hack) is a balancing act. You want to engage the readers interests and feeling without boring or offending them and still maintain what you want to express as an artist.

For a fast-paced tale, perhaps it is not necessary to have a lot of motivational detail for the character. If you want to go back an revise to add some color to the character, remember to have fun while doing it. It is not that the first draft was bad, it is only that one can continually make a draft a little better.

I have some mixed feeling when it comes to editing. A part of me wants to get it out of the way and move on. The other part of me (the perfectionist) desires to do better, like the challenge of doing better and is amazed at how one can improve their writing.

 

[tinkerdan]

I think that seeking glory can work; however it requires the writer do extra work to inform the reader of the value of glory within the culture of the story.

And when it is all about glory, there has to be clear definition of the upside and downside to seeking it.

So it might be that culturally seeking glory is encouraged because once one has it they elevate their status and can move in 'better' circles of people.
Meet and mingle with a better crowd.

Seeking glory might have at worst the bad side of dying or coming near death and becoming just an obscure footnote: loosing ones station or life.

It also might be closely tied with honor.
Glory without honor could result in something that is at odds with the goal.

 

[The Big Peat]

While I think all the points about different cultures have a good point, I think it overcomplicates something as well.

Ever felt the urge to do something so you get more standing at work, or so your social circle praises you, or so you can sit among your peers and know you've done just as much as them?

Then you've felt something that is very akin to desiring glory, just on a lesser scale and (presumably) in far less hazardous and morally dubious fields than war or bloody adventure.

And I think that in many ways this is maybe the real question here. Not why would someone seek reputation or the right for bragging rights or so on. But the killing and life risking and all that.

And on that, well - going back to the different cultures thing is pretty good - I think to a certain extent it's as simple as some people come into adulthood wired to enjoy those lifestyles. Read a SF soldier's biography - they don't have to do it, they want to. Or for a less extreme example, look at athletes who play collision/contact sports, or who do competitive martial arts, knowing damn well it'll affect the quality of their life once they're done but doing it anyway because, for whatever reason, it just makes life better. It's difficult to explain why but it's real. I've been playing rugby for 23 years, and I've exacerbated a disability to the point where I thought I'd not be able to walk pain free ever again (frankly it's still 50-50), and you know what? I'd give almost anything just to play five more games at full fitness. I've had plenty but want a little more. I guess by a lot of people's standards that'd make me stupid and I don't entirely disagree, but at the same time, ultimately one of the points of life is to maximise happiness and I did that on that at least.

And I guess that if people don't grok that sort of thing, then, well, glory is kinda hard to write about.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Glory is too abstract a concept. Is it for the glorification of themselves, or for someone else? Knights performed chivalric deeds for the glory of God; or at least that was their proclaimed reason for doing so. The fact that it usually brought them wealth , titles and fame probably helped. Martyrs often sacrificed themselves for the glory of God or their country. Some people seek glory for themselves, to see their names go down in history; sometimes for doing good deeds, sometimes very bad.

There can be proclaimed reasons and there can be underlying reasons for seeking glory. Does your title character seek recognition, money, titles or honours? Are they religious or have strong moral values?

 

[sule]

There is a lot of good advice in here already; I do want to add my two cents and talk about something that it doesn't look like was mentioned yet. When thinking about a character's motivation (and specifically the main character) it can help to ask, "What does this character stand to lose if they don't get what they want?" So, while asking, "Why does my character want glory?" you can find some of the motivation by asking, "What will my character lose if they don't get this glory?" What part of their life or their self will cease to be if they do not achieve their goal?

As Wayne Mack advised, it is a really good idea to look at your character's backstory for the motivation that drives them. Find specific points in their life where their desire was shaped. Flesh out those moments. Consider how they affected your character's views. Interrogate them to find a deeper understanding of how your character sees the world.

 

[sknox]

You might ask yourself what glory means to you. Not what you've read it means, but does the word resonate with you? Why did you choose it as a theme? The "has a price" part is easy because *everything* has a price. But before you can get to that part of the sentence, you should be very clear about what it means to you. And by that I think you ought to be able to write several paragraphs on the topic. If you can't, I'd argue you haven't explored deeply enough.

Then you can take a look at your character. Does it mean the same thing to her? Do you want to introduce wrinkles or ring some changes on your original meaning?

Then you can look at the society through which she moves. Is her idea of glory the same, or has she gone rogue in some way?

And then you can get to that other part. Several folks here have asked what is the price of failure. That speaks to the same thing. Is the MC willing to die for it? Kill for it? Does she need to *know* she's achieved her goal, or is it enough to know she tried and she'll let history judge? Does the society at large have a kind of checklist or benchmark by which glory is judged? And so on. Maybe glory has its price, but the price is cheap. Or on sale today. Or she is terribly, tragically mistaken about the price.

And then, and then, you have to weave your theme into the fabric of the actual story. Things don't happen because glory has its price. Things happen because of character actions, larger events, etc. Glory and its price forms the subtext.

BTW and mainly because I think it's a good movie, there's one (of many) that addresses this directly: Paths of Glory, starring Kirk Douglas. It's about soldiers in WWI. Really outstanding.

 

[Lafayette]

"What does this character stand to lose if they don't get what they want?" So, while asking, "Why does my character want glory?" you can find some of the motivation by asking, "What will my character lose if they don't get this glory?" What part of their life or their self will cease to be if they do not achieve their goal?

Right now, I'm struggling with this question. I agree with the concept of your question, but can't (yet) come up with answer that is half way intelligent.


As Wayne Mack advised, it is a really good idea to look at your character's backstory for the motivation that drives them. Find specific points in their life where their desire was shaped. Flesh out those moments. Consider how they affected your character's views. Interrogate them to find a deeper understanding of how your character sees the world.

I've been doing some of this as well. Even though, I have only a vague idea what the answer is it is forcing me to think more about Tayanna and flesh her out.

 

[Lafayette]

Sknox thank you for your comments, questions, and insights

You might ask yourself what glory means to you. Not what you've read it means, but does the word resonate with you?

I haven't thought about it that way. A very good question to ask myself.

Why did you choose it as a theme?

I'm not really sure. Its been a thought, but not really an idea that's been lightly bouncing around in my head for the past five to seven years. The idea of seeking glory intrigues me.

The "has a price" part is easy because *everything* has a price. But before you can get to that part of the sentence, you should be very clear about what it means to you. And by that I think you ought to be able to write several paragraphs on the topic. If you can't, I'd argue you haven't explored deeply enough.

You're right, I haven't really sat down and given it deep thought. My shallowness is showing. I will do as you suggest.

Then you can take a look at your character. Does it mean the same thing to her? Do you want to introduce wrinkles or ring some changes on your original meaning?

Then you can look at the society through which she moves. Is her idea of glory the same, or has she gone rogue in some way?

And then you can get to that other part. Several folks here have asked what is the price of failure. That speaks to the same thing. Is the MC willing to die for it? Kill for it? Does she need to *know* she's achieved her goal, or is it enough to know she tried and she'll let history judge? Does the society at large have a kind of checklist or benchmark by which glory is judged? And so on. Maybe glory has its price, but the price is cheap. Or on sale today. Or she is terribly, tragically mistaken about the price.

I've been giving these questions some thought, but not enough.

Things don't happen because glory has its price. Things happen because of character actions, larger events, etc. Glory and its price forms the subtext.

I'll keep this in mind.

BTW and mainly because I think it's a good movie, there's one (of many) that addresses this directly: Paths of Glory, starring Kirk Douglas. It's about soldiers in WWI. Really outstanding.