Difficult To Explain UFO Sightings

[dask]

This thread had hope until I saw the words “Fox News.”

 

[Guttersnipe]

As part of a street survey in Reading I was once asked if I believed in aliens.

"Where?" I asked.

"Pardon?"

"Do you mean here or generally?"

"I don't understand."

"I suspect you mean 'do I believe in alien manned UFOs?' to which the answer is 'no'. However, I think aliens do exist elsewhere in the galaxy."

"So do you believe in aliens?"

"I suspect if I answer yes then I'm going just to be added to a 'count of weirdos', so the answer is no."

She looked confused.

Yeah, there's a difference between Syfy Channel aliens and the very real possibility of extraterrestrial life elsewhere in the universe. I hear stories from people who conflate UFOs with their deep belief of Greys or what have you. Personally, I like to ask them what makes them sure it's extraterrestrials and not airborne time travelers, top-secret Wunderwaffen, or angelic beings, none of which I actually believe in.

 

[The Scribbling Man]

When I was young I was very into the idea of extraterrestrial life, now that has instead morphed into a fondness for science fiction. Generally, I think it's very unlikely that we would be the only living beings in the entire universe; but I also find it very unlikely, as others have similarly stated, that it would take the form of our imaginations, and that said extraterrestrial visitors would waste their time hovering around and playing pranks.

Still, aliens or no, some unexplained phenomena remains at least somewhat eery (or at least interesting) by virtue of being unexplainable.

 

[paranoid marvin]

When I was young I was very into the idea of extraterrestrial life, now that has instead morphed into a fondness for science fiction. Generally, I think it's very unlikely that we would be the only living beings in the entire universe; but I also find it very unlikely, as others have similarly stated, that it would take the form of our imaginations, and that said extraterrestrial visitors would waste their time hovering around and playing pranks.

Still, aliens or no, some unexplained phenomena remains at least somewhat eery (or at least interesting) by virtue of being unexplainable.

I agree. Is it coincidence that the vast majority of unexplained flying objects have occurred after we learned to fly? And as aircraft became faster, more manoeuvrable and sophisticated the number of sightings has risen accordingly.

It's back to 'I want to believe' - most people when they see flashing lights whizzing round the sky at night want to believe that it's alien spacecraft. They don't want it to be more mundane like a stealth fighter or a natural occurrence. A bit like in times past, people saw sea monsters or dragons; far more exciting than telling folk that you'd seen a lizard or porpoise.

 

[paranoid marvin]

When Bush and Blair invaded Iraq the first military news conference referred to the opposing forces as insurgents.

I suspect that if I was alive when there was a Starfleet, I would probably end up as a member of the Maquis! They were fine back in the days of Kirk, Bones and Scotty but by the time of Picard, Janeway and Sisko they were a bit too sanctimonious (but still broke the rules when it suited them), especially where the 'prime directive' was concerned.

 

[.matthew.]

I suspect that if I was alive when there was a Starfleet, I would probably end up as a member of the Maquis!

They had a fair point though. The Federation made a treaty they knew the Cardassians would ignore and abandoned the colonists. Then got uppity when the colonies fought back...

 

[BAYLOR]

As part of a street survey in Reading I was once asked if I believed in aliens.

"Where?" I asked.

"Pardon?"

"Do you mean here or generally?"

"I don't understand."

"I suspect you mean 'do I believe in alien manned UFOs?' to which the answer is 'no'. However, I think aliens do exist elsewhere in the galaxy."

"So do you believe in aliens?"

"I suspect if I answer yes then I'm going just to be added to a 'count of weirdos', so the answer is no."

She looked confused.

We're confused .

 

[Venusian Broon]

I agree. Is it coincidence that the vast majority of unexplained flying objects have occurred after we learned to fly? And as aircraft became faster, more manoeuvrable and sophisticated the number of sightings has risen accordingly.

I concur with your comments above this post (esp. that I don't think UFO's are aliens with their spacecraft), however the number of unexplained flying objects reported is I feel, really a function of mass media penetration. Before media was widespread in reporting and ability to publish to the masses, how do we know what the population of the Earth really saw or experienced?

Before these times I'm pretty sure people did see strange lights in the sky - in the medieval period, for example we do have the odd one or two sightings recorded. Of course they didn't see alien craft, but other entities that fitted their interpretation best. These however these were just the few that got into the few books/phamplets that were produced. However that does not mean that a lot of people in 1350's England, for example, could not see regularly an odd light or two in the sky because no one had invented flying - I'm sure a lot of peole saw some crazy things that have never been written down.

And no, my understanding is that as aeroplane technology has got better UFO sightings have actually dropped. So....in this sense UFO's seem to be more of a pyschological phenomena, society making them more important when the group zeitgeist made it so.

 

[BAYLOR]

I concur with your comments above this post (esp. that I don't think UFO's are aliens with their spacecraft), however the number of unexplained flying objects reported is I feel, really a function of mass media penetration. Before media was widespread in reporting and ability to publish to the masses, how do we know what the population of the Earth really saw or experienced?

Before these times I'm pretty sure people did see strange lights in the sky - in the medieval period, for example we do have the odd one or two sightings recorded. Of course they didn't see alien craft, but other entities that fitted their interpretation best. These however these were just the few that got into the few books/phamplets that were produced. However that does not mean that a lot of people in 1350's England, for example, could not see regularly an odd light or two in the sky because no one had invented flying - I'm sure a lot of peole saw some crazy things that have never been written down.

And no, my understanding is that as aeroplane technology has got better UFO sightings have actually dropped. So....in this sense UFO's seem to be more of a pyschological phenomena, society making them more important when the group zeitgeist made it so.

Nuremberg 1561 . Had a very strange event take place. Ever ear of it?

 

[Parson]

Before these times I'm pretty sure people did see strange lights in the sky - in the medieval period, for example we do have the odd one or two sightings recorded. Of course they didn't see alien craft, but other entities that fitted their interpretation best. These however these were just the few that got into the few books/phamplets that were produced. However that does not mean that a lot of people in 1350's England, for example, could not see regularly an odd light or two in the sky because no one had invented flying - I'm sure a lot of peole saw some crazy things that have never been written down.

I've often thought that a UFO might have been described much like this from Ezekiel 1 if you had no advanced technology to compare your vision to.

16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

 

[BAYLOR]

I've often thought that a UFO might have been described much like this from Ezekiel 1 if you had no advanced technology to compare your vision to.

16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

It does sound like the description of a space ship.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I concur with your comments above this post (esp. that I don't think UFO's are aliens with their spacecraft), however the number of unexplained flying objects reported is I feel, really a function of mass media penetration. Before media was widespread in reporting and ability to publish to the masses, how do we know what the population of the Earth really saw or experienced?

Before these times I'm pretty sure people did see strange lights in the sky - in the medieval period, for example we do have the odd one or two sightings recorded. Of course they didn't see alien craft, but other entities that fitted their interpretation best. These however these were just the few that got into the few books/phamplets that were produced. However that does not mean that a lot of people in 1350's England, for example, could not see regularly an odd light or two in the sky because no one had invented flying - I'm sure a lot of peole saw some crazy things that have never been written down.

And no, my understanding is that as aeroplane technology has got better UFO sightings have actually dropped. So....in this sense UFO's seem to be more of a pyschological phenomena, society making them more important when the group zeitgeist made it so.

Hi, in relation to aircraft technology I meant really post WWII, when there was a lot more experimentation being done with jet aircraft.

In the past before artificial light pollution in the skies at night, and we had effectively the whole Earth in a 'dark sky' environment, any lights from UFOs should have been very clear to see. Add to that the fact that there were no man-made objects of any kind meant that they would have stood out far more. Sightings should have been quite common, but (afaik) the reports are few and far between. Even if they were seen as acts of God (which is surely how they would have been interpreted) then you would have expected to see far more mention of them in historical chronicles.

I agree though that it is a group mentality thing, and when people are hoping/anticipating lights in the sky to be alien spacecraft, this is what they see.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I've often thought that a UFO might have been described much like this from Ezekiel 1 if you had no advanced technology to compare your vision to.

16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

I guess it depends on whether we take his words literally or metaphorically. And there are a number of descriptions (in the Bible and elsewhere) that suggest the possibility of spacecraft and Having said that, I do not discount the possibility of alien spacecraft having visited our planet in the past, just the notion that they are flying round the skies at night with (conveniently) glowing lights for everyone to see.

It does sound like the description of a space ship.

Or an Earthly technology that he cannot explain. Or possibly even a vision or metaphorical tale.

I definitely don't discount the possibility of an alien visitation at some point in the past, nor the chances of a (slightly) more advanced civilisation that has been lost in time. Was the technology for balloon travel beyond them back then, and could the discovery have been a closely guarded secret (which then got lost)? Could the four faces be helmets or other form of head protection?

 

[paranoid marvin]

Nuremberg 1561 . Had a very strange event take place. Ever ear of it?

Thanks. I hadn't heard of that; it's certainly a fascinating description

They had a fair point though. The Federation made a treaty they knew the Cardassians would ignore and abandoned the colonists. Then got uppity when the colonies fought back...

This is what annoyed me about the Federation; they hung them out to dry in order to secure peace with the Cardassians. And (as you say) when they - understandably - felt betrayed and started to fight back, they were the enemy. Starfleet/the Federation did what was politically expedient rather than the right thing. And the way that Sisko went after them in DS9 just felt wrong. Kirk would have been Maquis.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Yes I was thinking about post 1990s with regard to plane tech - it's definitely got better, yet UFO reports definitely declined in the new millenium. Possibly that is something to do with the cold war, as I am sure (and I don't feel tin-hat about this observation) that both the US and Soviet Union used UFOology and probably pushed it as a smokescreen for their own clandestine technology tests. When the cold war stopped, they had no need to stoke the UFO mythos...

Even if they were seen as acts of God (which is surely how they would have been interpreted) then you would have expected to see far more mention of them in historical chronicles.

There are surprisingly a lot of accounts all over the place in historical records, and when it makes sense to the narrative the writers were making, it's mentioned - for example what did Constantine see in the sky that made him convert to christianity, what did Edward IV (and his army) see in the sky that inspired him to victory? The more you dig, the more these sort of accounts keep coming up.

I would disagree with your statement that 'man-made objects of any kind would have stood out far more' in the sense that the huge majority of current UFO sightings (let's say post 1945) are not of mechanical artificial objects, but are just of lights and in fact a lot of these lights are mis-sightings of actual natural objects. It's a cliche but Venus and even the Moon has been idenitified as alien spacecraft and led some people down some very strange rabbit holes with regards to experiences. However that says something more about the mental states of humans.

What you have to remember is that people back then have differing mindsets to ours with regards to the sky and what happened in it, seeing 'signs and portents' if truly weird visions beset them. But also I would suggest that pre-industrial societies, would have had a much more intimate and deeper relationship with nature and the sky. As you state, very little light pollution and add to the fact that they would not have been stuck in their homes attached to a TV or mobile phone . But I think they would have been more used to seeing things in the sky and treating them as normal, hence not worth writing down, or just barely mentioning.

But I do think there is plenty in folklore that points to weirdness: Will o'wisp, marsh lights, even 'alien abductions' in the form of fairy encounters (the similarities between accounts is very telling in my eyes), etc.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Yes I was thinking about post 1990s with regard to plane tech - it's definitely got better, yet UFO reports definitely declined in the new millenium. Possibly that is something to do with the cold war, as I am sure (and I don't feel tin-hat about this observation) that both the US and Soviet Union used UFOology and probably pushed it as a smokescreen for their own clandestine technology tests. When the cold war stopped, they had no need to stoke the UFO mythos...



There are surprisingly a lot of accounts all over the place in historical records, and when it makes sense to the narrative the writers were making, it's mentioned - for example what did Constantine see in the sky that made him convert to christianity, what did Edward IV (and his army) see in the sky that inspired him to victory? The more you dig, the more these sort of accounts keep coming up.

I would disagree with your statement that 'man-made objects of any kind would have stood out far more' in the sense that the huge majority of current UFO sightings (let's say post 1945) are not of mechanical artificial objects, but are just of lights and in fact a lot of these lights are mis-sightings of actual natural objects. It's a cliche but Venus and even the Moon has been idenitified as alien spacecraft and led some people down some very strange rabbit holes with regards to experiences. However that says something more about the mental states of humans.

What you have to remember is that people back then have differing mindsets to ours with regards to the sky and what happened in it, seeing 'signs and portents' if truly weird visions beset them. But also I would suggest that pre-industrial societies, would have had a much more intimate and deeper relationship with nature and the sky. As you state, very little light pollution and add to the fact that they would not have been stuck in their homes attached to a TV or mobile phone . But I think they would have been more used to seeing things in the sky and treating them as normal, hence not worth writing down, or just barely mentioning.

But I do think there is plenty in folklore that points to weirdness: Will o'wisp, marsh lights, even 'alien abductions' in the form of fairy encounters (the similarities between accounts is very telling in my eyes), etc.

True, the lack of air pollution would have made natural phenomenon stand out even more and it's likely there would have been more unexplained objects in the night sky, albeit natural (although they may not have known that).


Many of the earlier reported objects in the night sky that you mention I think were clearly natural occurrences like comets and shooting stars. But the other instances mentioned such as Parson and Baylor describe above are much less so.

I agree that there is a lot happening - and a lot that has happened - that is unexplainable, and rightly so. Life would be pretty boring if everything was laid out in plain sight.

 

[Wayne Mack]

I agree. Is it coincidence that the vast majority of unexplained flying objects have occurred after we learned to fly? And as aircraft became faster, more manoeuvrable and sophisticated the number of sightings has risen accordingly.

Consider that man now has the capability to detect comets and asteroids well outside the atmosphere. Where are those UFO sightings? I also tend to wonder about the size and capabilities of the craft. Would travelers from distant galaxies come in relatively small craft that are also capable of flight in an atmosphere or would they come in much large, much more readily visible craft?

 

[RJM Corbet]

story

 

[.matthew.]

Would travelers from distant galaxies come in relatively small craft that are also capable of flight in an atmosphere or would they come in much large, much more readily visible craft?

They're clearly just using runabouts

That said, I'm of the opinion that aliens have never been here (though likely exist somewhere else) and probably never will.

Maybe faster than light travel is genuinely impossible, perhaps even with it the distances are too mindboggling to contemplate, maybe there's just no point if you have millions of empty planets full of resources right next door.

You'd also have to be a pretty stupid species to actually go looking for other life - humans have a bad habit of killing new things pretty quick and there's no reason to believe any advanced society wouldn't do the same.

 

[dask]

Nuremberg 1561 . Had a very strange event take place. Ever ear of it?

This has Philip Jose Farmer written all over it.