Hugo Nominees for 2021

[Bick]

Series:

• I've read the Interdependency series in full twice, (it was better the first time through...) A fun romp of a space opera.
• See above re the Murderbot books (love u Murderbot love u).

Of these MURDERBOT. (Interdependency 2nd choice.)

Interesting post Tachyon.
As to your specific comments on the series - I think we tend to agree. I really liked the Murderbot that I've read. I felt Scalzi's work was fun while reading it, but ultimately was a bit like popcorn, and certain aspects of it I thought were weak. It's not as good as his OMW series.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Feeling like I should figure out how the awards things work so I can help get the books I like properly recognized but it feels like work! I have responsibilities! I want to read in my free time not work a campaign.

It’s very hard. They are - all of them - very clicquey and, unless you are in the know, you will never be recognised. For me, that really devalues some of them. Frankly, it can feel like unless you are mates with a certain group of people, or published by a certain publisher or two, you will not be included - it means that I never see them as a recognition of what’s really good. I know of two high profile ones I ignore based on that. And let’s not start on Irish awards and that level of clique since we are the land of saints and scholars and can’t see past a handful of highly literary writers. (I appreciate that that’s a bit local - but it is what genre writers are up against the world over)

sales uplift from awards is notoriously slender. they generally drive word of mouth only to those already engaged, who are those following the awards anyhow.

‘award-winning author‘ is a fun one. I recently got talking with poet friends, and they include ANYTHING ever achieved as an award - including receiving an arts council grant. By definition anyone here who has won Kraxon’s story of the year is award-winning. If it’s important to have that in your blurb or introduction go for It - but, it’s like Amazon bestselling author... it’s overused and means nowt to most people. and someone might ask you exactly what award and then you feel like an eejit.

I’m always surprised that Adrian Tchaikovsky is not better recognised in the Hugo’s but he has won several
Clarke awards. R J Barker is another. These days, the Clarke is the only one I follow with any interest as I find they dovetail to my taste quite well. I do also love the annual round up of Irish authors eligible for a Hugo, as I get to see what everyone has been writing - but this is done as a fan thing only.

in terms of my own views on the Hugo’s - I think they’ve long been problematic and that this years controversy is reflective of earlier years. I don’t like, or agree with the tone (which does cross into hate-speech, imho), of the piece nominated and I don’t think it has literary value. I would prefer a world where it couldn’t end up on the nomination list.

I do recognise it was produced - and it was a blog, iirc, not produced as a work of literature - from a place of intense frustration when a previous winning piece, a popular speech about John Campbell, appears to have made no difference to the Hugo ceremony, despite fan endorsement of the message (about opening SF up to more diverse writers). The ceremony referred to was shambolic and did feel like a step back in time, and did itself - or the hosts, who were left with a virtual ceremony with, at least that could be seen, little support - no favours and, for me, this is the core of the Hugo problem: that sense of both having to be with the times (because it is a popular vote contest) and also trying to maintain its traditions (Because it is still seen as the main sff award), and so it feels neither progressive nor traditional and is pleasing no one.

Perhaps the changes that can allow it to continue and not be the annual pile-on fest it feels like since the Sad Puppies (or Angry, I can never remember which was first) will get made on the back of this. I think, for conventions hosting Worldcon, that’s really what is needed because they keep being exposed by awards that are not their own, that they’re hosting and that are becoming so toxic code of conduct guidelines are being difficult to maintain.

but that change only happens if fans get involved. The con circuit is run by volunteers who only have so much time. If you want to challenge how a piece can end up on the ballot - get onto the committees that can address that and push for change. These are fan-owned awards, they’re not done to us - or they don’t have to be.

 

[Danny McG]

The Hugo awards in no way affect my SF reading. I can't think of anytime, ever, that I've went
"OMG that book/author has a Hugo so I must buy it"

 

[Toby Frost]

If people want to give me awards, they're welcome. But too many crackpots and weirdos, some of them downright dangerous, are given "airtime" in "serious" SFF circles. It's not for me.

 

[Brian G Turner]

If we're going to discuss other people's awards, could we please keep on topic to the nominations, please.

I'm sure there are plenty of other websites (such as Tor.com) available to discuss the politics behind it all.

 

[Don]

This usenet excerpt may be of interest:

​

The Gatekeepers of Award Worthy SF&F

​

I haven't updated this, but I did check the 2021 Hugo nominees versus the 2021 Locus recommended reading lists (I think the below is correct, but I was in a hurry).​

​

Novels: 6 of 6​

Novellas: 6 of 6 (out of 18 in the recommended list - how many novellas were published in 2020? I know that the 18 combined issues of Analog, Asimov's, and F&SF claimed to have 15 novellas - none appeared in the Locus list).​

Novelette: 4 of 6 - not in a recommended list were "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter" by Isabel Fall and "Monster" by Naomi Kritzer​

Short Story: 6 of 6​

 

[tachyon]

Interesting post Tachyon.
As to your specific comments on the series - I think we tend to agree. I really liked the Murderbot that I've read. I felt Scalzi's work was fun while reading it, but ultimately was a bit like popcorn, and certain aspects of it I thought were weak. It's not as good as his OMW series.

Yeah, I think Scalzi was intending to write popcorn which isn't necessarily a bad thing, they are fun reads.

The comparison with the Murderbot books is apt. These are both entertaining series, with great characterization, deft humor, and expert understanding of the genre.

The characters in each series have a unique voice, but Murderbot is vulnerable and sympathetic while being admirably motivated and hypercompetent, while Scalzi's standout character is entertainingly brash and the other leads are, while not cynical, generally clear eyed realists - and all of them are hypercompetent as well.

This makes the plot of the Interdependency books seem somewhat facile upon re-reading and highlights some of the worldbuilding and plot holes - shouldn't these brain geniuses see what I see - to the detriment of the series.

While Murderbot, on the run and on its own, dodging authority and building alliances, is a classic underdog, the characters in the Interdependency series are the ruler of all of humanity and a handful of merchant nobility. They have their challenges and antagonists, but their battles are somewhat more abstract.

Both great series, but I think Murderbot has the edge.

 

[pogopossum]

It's a little late to advocate for nominations. I understand the system, but only actually joined the convention once, about a dozen years ago.
I rarely read enough current stuff to have relevant opinions.
This year I read four of the best novel nominees. Nothing against them, and I certainly like lighter stuff (see my advocacy for murderbot and bobiverse above). The Kowal and Jemison are not "lighter" however overlooking the serious, well written Ministry For The Future speaks to me of a lack interest in thoughtful extropolation. Hard to think of a recent book that ties the now to the future as well.

In the series, read Kowal, Scalzi & Wells. Different strengths. Would be happy with any, however would vote among those for Scalzi by a nose. He won't win. A bias is that the Old Man's War series can't be considered this year, so perhaps this is a surrogate.
A shame that being an also run basically knocks them out without much more work.

 

[pogopossum]

Correction to post #9. I see that the fourth bobiverse only came out this year, so the series didn't qualify. My bad.
Next year in Jerusalem?

 

[Werthead]

This year I read four of the best novel nominees. Nothing against them, and I certainly like lighter stuff (see my advocacy for murderbot and bobiverse above). The Kowal and Jemison are not "lighter" however overlooking the serious, well written Ministry For The Future speaks to me of a lack interest in thoughtful extropolation. Hard to think of a recent book that ties the now to the future as well.

Robinson's excellent New York 2140, which was nominated in 2018. I generally find Robinson has two modes, one where he subtly talks about future problems and how they can be addressed through organic character and story development (The Mars Trilogy, The Three Californias Trilogy, New York 2140) and one where he sits people down and lectures them at length with finger-wagging (the Science in the Capital trilogy), and the latter seems to go down badly. Ministry leans more in the latter category than the former, or so I have gathered (it's a long way down my to-read list).

Are you certain that is the case if the piece in question clearly breaks Hugo rules regarding Code of Conduct?

Based on the convention organisers, apparently yes. The previous WorldCon organisers and the WSFS actually created this problem themselves because of puppygate, when they would have put in place stronger rules that banned pieces attacking individuals or entire groups of people but decided that was a slippery slope and instead encouraged people to use existing mechanisms (like the No Award) to defeat them. That's left their hands tied here.

 

[Parson]

Random thoughts:

1) There is politics in everything even (GASP!) the church.
2) I have bought books just because they were Hugo award winners, but not in recent years. (On the average, I found them slightly above average.)

 

[Alex The G and T]

The May/June issue of F&SF has this to say about this:

Fantasy and Science Fiction: Games by Marc Laidlaw

The award-winning Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, founded in 1949. The original publisher of Stephen King's Dark Tower, Daniel Keyes's Flowers for Algernon, and Walter M. Miller's A Canticle for Leibowitz.

fandsf.com

"First, let's talk about what the table doesn't tell you. Biggest item: Tordotcom Publishing became a real problem for print magazines. In 2014 Macmillan announced the Tor.com imprint (now called Tordotcom), explicitly devoted to novellas, short novels, and serializations. These high quality novella-length books took over a ballot category previously filled by print mags. So, in part, it wasn't the internet that killed print magazines, it was Tordotcom. Over the past five years, it's been a rarity to see novellas from any magazines end up on these awards ballots.

"Perhaps a side note: Some awards have other ways of giving a nod to magazines. The Hugos have the Editor, Short Form category, and the Semiprozine category. While Big Three stories may have tapered off, their editors (especially Sheila Williams of Asimov's) are sometimes on the ballot. Meanwhile, the rules for Semiprozine were changed a number of years back, mysteriously rendering all three magazines ineligible—but without providing a decent alternate slot. They are pretty much award-blocked.

 

[pogopossum]

HUGO WINNERS! (LINK)

Martha Wells year.
I read and enjoyed all of the Murderbot. As has been the case a lot lately I would not have picked Network Effect as the best novel - or for that matter the series for that prize.
I do not have the breadth of reading to make a fair evaluation. Read only half of the nominees. In my defense, even Jo Walton in her study of 50+ years of the prize had no better than a 60+% agreement, with many of her potential winners not even nominated. And truly educated voters, the SFWA, most often gives their prize elsewhere.
In the series, I again read half. There I would have preferred either the Scalzi or the Kowal - among what I read.
Murderbot does have a unique voice, so perhaps that choice is a matter of taste and preference, and not any sort of lack in the books. Wells met the criteria with a series of novellas and one short novel., less is more? And her last was the most substantial (but not the best to my taste). But series does not require that the latest is the best, just that something came out in the given year.
It certainly is nice that there has been a series award for the last five years. Nominated non-winners are not again eligible until at least two more installments are published. Several of the non-winners will hopefully again become eligible with more publication. There has only been one award for best series ever and one retro-Hugo for series (1945). Think of all of the series that you wish had been awarded over the years.

 

[Bick]

The less said about Hugo's the better, I think.

 

[pogopossum]

The less said about Hugo's the better, I think.

Because you don't like the choices? Or the process? Is it somehow so bogus as to warrant scorn?
I made it clear that I did not agree with the choices at either the nomination stage or at the prize level this year. That goes for several previous.
But ANYTHING that exposes some works to our specific community and (dream on) to some sort of wider view is better than there not being a (fairly) general fan award.
I would assume that those who post here and on other boards are more interested in SFF than more casual readers.
But here you can expose, comment, read about and learn what is out there. Perhaps similar attention should be made elsewhere to other prizes and selections. But do not lose any sleep waiting. It does not even occur here. This is not a service to the community per se. It is about commentary and that which strikes the fancy of posters who identify somewhat with SFF.

Being nominated cannot but serve to expand knowledge.
I should look more closely at the Locus list & selections. Similarly to the SFWA Nebula choices and the various fantasy awards.
They speak to (I think) a somewhat more discerning viewpoint. But still selective, with selective biases.
It would perhaps be useful to list what the greater SFF community and selectors thought was worth mentioning.
A new topic for the board? I would be happy to pay attention and post what awards and nominees are out there. As well as a list of where to check what has been nominated/selected over the years.

edit: Don't mean to be overly adversarial Bick. I appreciate your starting the thread and posting the original list.You must have had some interest. But as a fan, what would you suggest as an alternative? Was it just this year or do you have a long term alienation from the Hugo? And therefore ---?

 

[Bick]

Because you don't like the choices? Or the process? Is it somehow so bogus as to warrant scorn?

See post 4 in the thread, pogopossum.
Incidentally, I see the committee never did remove the vile attack on an old, distinguished author in the nominations list. It stayed until the end, inviting readers to vote on it:
“George R.R. Martin Can F*** Off Into the Sun, Or: The 2020 Hugo Awards Ceremony (Rageblog Edition)”, Natalie Luhrs (Pretty Terrible, August 2020)

Who would wish to be associated with an award that thinks this is okay? (I 'starred' the obscenity due to this forum's rules, incidentally - it's spelled out in full in the nominations list).

 

[Toby Frost]

Yeah, that was low-quality material. It read like a teenager's Livejournal post. You want me to take you seriously? Write like a grown up.

 

[dask]

What do the Hugos (Hugoes?) have against George R.R. Martin?

 

[Bick]

What do the Hugos (Hugoes?) have against George R.R. Martin?

He presented the previous year’s Hugo Awards, at the Worldcon’s request, and (a) struggled to pronounce a few nominee’s names and (b) mentioned John W. Campbell in positive terms.

 

[dask]

So, was this foot stamping diatribe actually nominated for something?