How Would a Lone, 14th-Century Saboteur Scuttle a Ship?

Sure. Most of the cultures appearing in my story are based on Mediterranean cultures or societies/civilizations that lived close to it (Provençals, Berbers, 1st Bulgarian Empire...) so in my mind it is very much the Mediterranean, but in a different world, with a different configuration and name.

What I meant was that I had not thought of including any precise description or definition of this expanse of water in my story (hence why I even alternated between "ocean" and "sea" in my original message).

I might add that this WIP is not a novel but a graphic novel, so I'm wary of adding in too much exposition and descriptions that cannot be conveyed directly through pictures. What you'll see is a large body of water and people living on its coasts. If readers want to host debates over whether the large body of water looks more like an ocean than an enclosed sea and why it should have had tides but doesn't, they are welcome to.
 
I vote for fire as well. With very little handwaving you could have fires erupt in multiple places more or less the same time. Fire on board ship is a serious business. If the fire spreads quickly enough, even being at dock wouldn't help the crew; first order of business would be to cut the lines and get the ship away from the more valuable dock.

The flames wouldn't likely sink the ship unless they became more or less all-consuming. But they would be big enough to raise the alarm landward while at the same time disabling both ships by burning sails and masts and critical points such as moorings or the helm. The people on the ships would be completely absorbed in trying to put out the multiple fires. And you could always add that they were carrying some sort of explosive substance, lending suspense to the scene. In fact, why not let one of the ships survive just intact enough to set out in pursuit only to fail or fall back at the last moment.

Having them at anchor is better than dockside. Makes getting the one good ship away much easier. It wouldn't be difficult to justify having the ships out at anchor--just put the docks and warehouses along a beach with no deep water. All commerce would be run in and out by boat, the way it was done at, say, Jaffa. The only real trick at that point would be to have some way to make a long boat or two hidden and handy so they could row their way out to the third ship.

BTW, a cog ain't exactly a greyhound of the sea. But I suppose you could use that to advantage as well.
 
Hi,

Oddly enough in one of the books I'm working on at the moment I had an MC also scuttle ships. He simple swam around in the dark while the ships were moored and started drilling holes. And I don't think it was particularly risky at all. Because if you do it at night, no one is going to know until the boat starts filling with water. And I'd also point out that your MC doesn't have to actually scuttle the boats. Only make sure that they can't catch hers. And a sailing ship half full of water isn't going to be very fast.

Cheers, Greg.
 
Oddly enough in one of the books I'm working on at the moment I had an MC also scuttle ships. He simple swam around in the dark while the ships were moored and started drilling holes.

Thanks for your reply. My mind is set on not having the MC drill holes in the hulls but out of curiosity, could you share a few more details? As in, was it a medieval setting too? What tools were used and how? How long did it take for your character to sink X ships?

sknox said:
I vote for fire as well. (...)

Thank you for your input. Fire does seem to be the most convenient option.
 
Tar, oil, straw - Fire preferably near to any gunpowder.

Then over the side sharpish like.
 
Hi Chaos,

Actually my MC lives in a steampunk sort of world (a lot of my worlds have gone that way!) He got six boats - all of them river freighters with steam engines, tied up along wharves running alongside the river. Mostly it was a vengeance thing for old Farry. And he only stopped drilling holes when the first boat finally sunk and there was a commotion. Actually as for technology the only thing that matters is that you have sufficient steel making ability to manufacture a sharp, durable half inch auger and a proper crank drill - the sort of thing we used to use in woodworking to make holes for dowels (a steel hull would have been a problem!). I had him drill roughly half a dozen holes per ship before swimming on and the first boat would have sunk in four to six hours.

By the way I also had Farry escape a prison realm that no one else could escape by jumping off a chasm bridge with a parachute he wove from grass.

For me, most of my heroes aren't warriors / super heroes, and so a lot of what I have them do involves using their intelligence rather than their brawn. You won't catch them trying to take on half a dozen ruffians with a sword generally! It's about achieving the maximum impact with minimum risk - and if you can do it without anybody ever finding out, so much the better!

Cheers, Greg.
 
Sorry for the lateness of the reply!

Anyway, drilling a hole in the hull? Wooden ships are notoriously able to float, drilling through a thick hull to open up a large enough hole to let enough water in without arousing suspicion seems an impossible task to me (especially if you have swam a great distance to just get there). They seem so small as ships, so much noise would be very noticeable. Some military ships had very low gun ports close to the water line, that in heavy seas could let enough water in to capsize the vessel (Mary Rose I'm looking at you), so potentially you could use them somehow. But that's a big military ship, not a merchant cog, and in calm waters it would be no help. And no, I have not heard of medieval 'combat divers'!

Explosives? If it were a military vessel, and they were using canons, one could potentially rig the "powder room". There should be potentially enough there to fundamentally damage the structure of the ship and cause secondary fires. If canons on ships (or that ship) is not your thing in-universe, getting enough 'expolosive' onto the ship to actually cause enough damage seems implausable via swimming. Even alchemical wonder weapons. (Unless it was transporting this as a cargo...but it would surely be under close guard and scrutiny, given how dangerous it was to carry.)

You could potentially put in some sort of 'alchemical' bomb, as you say, and just give it enough magical properties that gives it a massive explosive/intense fire property, but that feels like a cop-out. White Phosphorous may be one potential subtance - see: White phosphorus munitions - Wikipedia - properly prepared has an inbuild 'timer' - see the history bit with carbon disulfide. (But how do prisoners get their hands on pure white phosphorus?)

Personally I might go for fire. Rig the ship to try and have an uncontrollable fire. Wood may float, but ex-trees, pitch, rope and tar etc. are highly flammable. Now, if the ship is near other ships and the fire cannot be fought, the crew themselves and others in the harbour might actively try to move the burning ship as far away from others to limit damage. Of course they would probably try and move the ship to a position that does not hinder the rest of the harbour. Or they would try and move the other ships away. This seems to make sense to target the ship furthest away from the rest, as 1) you have better chance of capturing the closest ones, 2) it takes enemies away from you dealing with the burning boat (and they are more likely to try and tow that one away, rather than sail the other two?) 3) it needs someone to swim a big distance, which is your scuttler's skill, and to swim back to another ship.

In the confusion that gives the opportunity for the prisoners to board the other ships and take them over (they might try and claim at the start of the action that they are only going to move the other ships to 'safety'). Simultaneosly it would make sense, I feel, to set up fires in warehouses and buildings on land at some point, so that people are occupied with that too. That is something the men could be getting on with as the first ship is causing problems. Also perhaps trying to fool the garrison with a message right at that start that something is happening in the slave camp (or waiting till someone does come with a message saying that loads of slaves have escaped!) - so that men might be sent to see what the problem was, thus reducing the number of dangerous enemies in port.

So including all of the above, I, the would-be scuttler, would then try and board the ship when there were as few people on it, when it was heavily laden with cargo (will aid in overcoming the bouyancy of the wood in the event that the ship takes on lots of water) and attempt to set fire to the ship in such a way that the few people on board could not fight the resultant blaze. Potentially try and smuggle on large amounts of something flammable as it was being loaded with cargo beforehand, or know that they are present - like pitch/oil or even potentially spirits or liquor, as they were first produced, I believe, in the 13th century, so could be used, in sealed containers. They could be smashed open to drench the cargo deck with copious amounts of fammable liquid that would need to be ignited and then make a sharp exit. Oh, this assumes that this is a decked cog, so that one could carry out these activities without being seen by anyone.

That only deals with one ship though, and I find it unlikely that one sabateur could successully destroy two ships without limpet mines stuffed with copious amounts of high-explosive with (at least) clockwork timers ;). Thus perhaps the men could disable the second ship (chopping/damaging the masts and leaving more fire to destroy sails and rigging, or damage the tiller/rudder system?), while then all converging on the final ship and escaping.

It's messy, I know, and quite intricate. Perhaps cut the number of ships from 3 to 2?
 
>Perhaps cut the number of ships from 3 to 2?
Oh yeah, I completely overlooked this. As described, this prison or work farm is isolated. We're not talking a whole city here, with outlying towns and villages. A single ship can carry a good deal of what such a community might need for some time. Two ships arriving at the same time .... sure, maybe. But three ships in port at once? That feels like too much. The merchants would be competing against each other.

Indeed, it's not clear what the prison would have to offer. No captain wants to sail with an empty hold.
 
>Perhaps cut the number of ships from 3 to 2?
Oh yeah, I completely overlooked this. As described, this prison or work farm is isolated. We're not talking a whole city here, with outlying towns and villages. A single ship can carry a good deal of what such a community might need for some time. Two ships arriving at the same time .... sure, maybe. But three ships in port at once? That feels like too much. The merchants would be competing against each other.

Indeed, it's not clear what the prison would have to offer. No captain wants to sail with an empty hold.

I think I mentioned this earlier but the reason there are three ships is because they send the goods produced within the workcamp to three different cities with major fairs and markets. Merchants do not compete with each other as the entire operation belongs to one merchant and the ships, camps and slaves are his'. On the way out the ships carry the goods produced by the "slaves" (for lack of a better word - they are reasonably well treated and fed, but they have to work and are not free to go as they please), on the way back they carry what the camp cannot produce on its own, mostly food, and bring back the merchant's money.

I could probably do with two ships however. It wouldn't be hard to come up with an explanation on why shipping goods to the city that is furthest away would be less profitable to the merchant.

Thank you.
 
I could probably do with two ships however. It wouldn't be hard to come up with an explanation on why shipping goods to the city that is furthest away would be less profitable to the merchant.

Thank you.

I guess it would depend on the volume of goods being produced, as you'd want to fill all the ships up fully for maximum proift and probably not have them waiting a long time to do so. So if you only produce 2 'boats-full' of stuff, one ship could do two of the ports (and pick up some trade in the first for the second)? Three ships are more of risk and therefore costlier than two if you can't fill 'em up!

Another thought came to mind that, the slaves could descend on the port and see that only 2 ships were there. The third ship is 'somewhere else' at the time they attack, and therefore after they escape the slavers are able to respond - cue chase on the high seas, prisoners throwing stuff over the side to lighten their ship and get faster, high jinks and a clever escape?

EDIT: Sorry, another thought! If you wanted 'fire' to be a thing in the escape, could the alchemist be one of the few that knows how to make 'Greek Fire'. Definitely could have been a thing for your time period...just ;) . Or is that a bit too 'A Game of Thrones'?
 
Last edited:
I think I mentioned this earlier but the reason there are three ships is because they send the goods produced within the workcamp to three different cities with major fairs and markets. Merchants do not compete with each other as the entire operation belongs to one merchant and the ships, camps and slaves are his'. On the way out the ships carry the goods produced by the "slaves" (for lack of a better word - they are reasonably well treated and fed, but they have to work and are not free to go as they please), on the way back they carry what the camp cannot produce on its own, mostly food, and bring back the merchant's money.

I could probably do with two ships however. It wouldn't be hard to come up with an explanation on why shipping goods to the city that is furthest away would be less profitable to the merchant.

Thank you.
Generally ships still don't like sailing with half full holds. Certainly if we look at the trade winds type of economy (eg. slave trade) then a triangular route was the most common. :-

First to Africa - Beads, alcohol, guns and ammo plus other trinkets for the purchase of slaves :-
Then to the Americas - to transport those slave and buy goods.
Back to Europe - Goods, cotton, sugar, tabacco etc.

Repeat for profit.

So they wouldn't arrive empty. At the very least they would have more inmates and foodstuffs ammo and guns to keep the rabble in check.

I would also question the Major Fairs all happening at the same time. Surely this with dilute the pot for the goods. It would be moor likely that one ship would take the goods to the various places to coincide with a fair and then move on to the next city in time for their fair which would allow locals to attend and not have them travelling to the fairs of another city.

Just and opinion

Hope I helped

Tein
 
Last edited:
Generally ships still don't like sailing with half full holds.
The economics of the situation aren't necessarily that clear. The above assumes that equally valuable shipments are available for trade elsewhere. If the prison island has something that is in demand, it may be economically worse to defer potential revenue waiting for a full ship load. If there are few other trading resources, it may be financially worse to have the ships and crew to sit idle while waiting for a full ship load. Given that the prison seems to be a mine, just-in-time manufacturing principles may apply and it may be more economically feasible to send many, frequent, small shipments in lieu of a few large shipments. It could be that each ship represents one using manufacturing plant. Each ship may replace a factory's warehouse and hold ore that is directly transferred to processing furnaces.

I do not believe that there are inherent hurdles to having three ships at a wharf at the same time. I am not sure how deeply the story needs to go in providing a justification for the ships, but I believe a reasonable one can be provided.
 

Similar threads


Back
Top