Meeting at an inn

[jjcomet]

This is the reason I joined Chronicles, to have my writing critiqued. I have asked some friends for feed-back on my latest works, however I think my initial samples years ago have left them permanently blind. I have edited my chapters several times and now have reached the point where a different perspective is needed.
What follows is an excerpt from the third chapter in a book I would someday like to submit. In this sample are two previously established characters: a female elf named Vaust and a middle-aged mage named Astrin. The newest character introduced here is Garym Alandras. Astrin is trying to hire the two adventurers for a rescue mission and they are meeting at an inn.
Like previous requests for critiques posted in Chronicles, I too would like to know if the writing flows well. I have tried to write in the present tense and would like to know if I have succeeded? Grammar back in school was not my strong suit.
What concerns me in this and all my work – is if the usage of commas is correct. I read posts dealing with the placement of commas and it sounds to me if one is consistent in their usage through one’s work, it should be ok.
Any and all comments are welcomed.


**********
Covering the afternoon sky is a thick blanket of gray clouds. One would expect rain from such a setting, however one would be wrong on this day. The temperature is pleasant and there is no feel or smell of rain in the southern breeze. Two figures stand under the overhanging, upper levels to the Brass Shield Inn. There is a substantial difference in their heights, yet the ease of their comradery is ever-present to those who notice. Long blond hair is parted in the middle upon the taller male, allowing observant blue eyes to watch the populace of Rush move by. Those eyes pass over the shorter female elf with long, dark hair tied in a ponytail by a red scarf.

Garym Alandras politely listens as Vaust talks on about the inn. The muscular, master psionicist gives a silent sigh, running a hand through his hair. Finally Vaust’s longtime friend inclines his head and gestures at the door, realizing she has forgotten to enter the tavern. Lost in her narration about the inn and why they are there. Vaust pauses, glancing at the thick wooded closure before grinning at the invitation, glad for his consideration.

Entering the Brass Shield Inn, Vaust steps lightly to the left towards the bar, taking a seat. Those already in the room watch the attractive elf skip to a bar-stool, wearing a short, violet and gray dress. Following slowly, peering around the room, is a taller male with a fighter’s physique. Observing the room in general and the wall with the various shields in particular.

Garym has a long green cape over his shoulders, wearing a yellow cotton shirt and brown fleece slacks. Underneath is a gray suit of magical chainmail not forged by metal, and bracers of protection upon his forearms. Attached to his belt are two longswords, well-constructed and yet both are of different makes. One sheathed blade had been crafted from the green metal of a meteor. The second created from a blue crystalline substance, much like his chainmail. Both blades are carried with an undercurrent of confidence and bearing, stating the owner knows how to use them exceptionally well.

As Garym sits next to Vaust, a dark haired male with green eyes meets them on the opposite side of the bar, placing a glass of wine before Vaust. The mage, Astrin greets Garym with a handshake and a smile, mentioning in friendly but quiet tones.

“Welcome to the Brass Shield Inn, Garym. My name, as I’m sure Vaust has told you, is Astrin Hennten, and I’m currently in need of some help. But please, as my newest guest here in Rush, allow me to offer you a fine meal and drink.” Astrin indicates the table by the door, where his blue cloak and black, broad brimmed hat rest on a chair. “In a more secure place then the bar. There we can resume introductions a little more privately.”

Vaust hops off the seat holding her wine glass. She is halfway to the table by the time Astrin finishes talking to Garym. Making a snort of humor, Garym shrugs his shoulders.

“Looks like that decision’s already been answered,” grinning in her direction. Taking a second glance at the wall covered in shields, he steps over to the table. Vaust is sliding around to the bench against the exterior wall. Not wanting to have his back to the room, and with Astrin’s cloak on the third chair, Garym reluctantly takes the seat next to the door. Somewhat uncomfortable with his back to the entrance, he does notice the door is blocked from swinging far enough to hit anyone sitting there. This is due to metal stoppers set into the floor and another along the wall.

Astrin soon returns from the kitchen, carrying a large clay platter containing a smoked ham encrusted with a thick layer of carameled sugar. Following him out the swinging doors is the red-haired barmaid Kris, who carries a tray containing several plates, a bowl of whipped potatoes covered in butter and cheese. There is a second large bowl contains mixed winter peas and diced carrots in melted butter. Handing out the plates and utensils, the meal is arrayed around the table. As Kris returns to the kitchen Astrin glances between his two guests.

“Vaust already has her drink. What would you care to have, Garym?”

“A mug of ale will do fine, thanks.”

“Good. Vaust? Care for something else?”

Not standing on ceremony she is busily slicing off portions of ham, placing them on her plate. “Another glass of wine will do.”

“Then I’ll be back in a moment with drinks and some fresh baked bread.” Flourishing a hand, indicating Vaust’s start on the meal, he happily comments to Garym, “Please, eat. I’ll do the initial talking when I return.” He leaves, carrying the empty trays. Following directions, Garym serves a plate of his own and is impressed by the food. Finishing the last of her wine Vaust smiles over the glass.

“Told you the food here’s good.”

“True, true.”

 

[sule]

I think you've got a solid grasp on present tense here, and the voice of the narrator is confident and direct in its description, which I thought was mostly good.

I'll be honest and say that this section of narrative didn't hold my attention all the way through. I read it--I wouldn't have given you a critique if I hadn't been able to do that much--but it felt like there was too much table-setting (literally and figuratively) that I skimmed a little, hoping (pardon my bluntness) that it would get to the point. I think that my sense as a reader was that there was no reason to start a scene in one location, move to a second, then to a third, in quick succession without any conflict being introduced. If you start a scene at a table in the bar, the reader's brain will fill in the parts where they went to the bar, walked inside, then sat down at the table. You can trust them to follow you that much. Perhaps you could look at scenes from some of your favorite novels to test this, but in my experience a good scene starts right before (or right after) a point of tension. If I were writing this scene, I would want it to start as close as it possibly could to them being told what the job is and why it's so important. The rest is just fluff and can either be layered in among the later scene or cut.

Spoiler: aside

The movie Inception has a scene that calls attention to this sort of gap-filling, in which two characters are in mid-conversation at an outdoor cafe and it is only near the end of the scene that one of the characters realizes they don't know how they got to the cafe (because the entire scene is taking place inside a dream that they've inserted themselves into). It's kind of hard to explain, so I would recommend watching it if you haven't already.

Starting three different sentences "Garym Alandras," "the muscular, master psionicist," and "Vaust's longtime friend" as a way of referring to one character was confusing; it felt like you're talking about three different characters because the only thing that links those three appellations is proximity. If the reader is able to get the hint that these three people are, in fact, the same person, then instead it feels like the author interjecting to "tell" the reader important things instead of finding more organic ways of getting that information across (I think you may have also done this with the mage character).

Finally, two pet peeves that aren't really hard and fast rules, but things I personally don't enjoy when reading:
1. Descriptions that are perfunctory "this color hair, gender," just aren't very descriptive to me. I can't really picture a character from those kinds of details, they just don't feel alive to me. I would rather not know a character's hair color and get the sense of them through other, more specific details.
2. Beginning sentences with gerund clauses. This is likely because it's a pet peeve and I'm bound to notice, but I thought there were too many sentences that began like "Taking a second glance," "Following him out," "Covering the afternoon sky." It can sometimes sound lyrical, and it's definitely something that's never going to disappear completely, but when there's a lot of it it acquires a soporific sing-song tone that injects a passive voice to active proceedings. There is a time and place for this style of sentence, it just seemed to me that there were too many in such a short section.

I thought the paragraph of description of Garym (after he entered the bar) was well done and much stronger than the earlier descriptions of him. It gave me a much clearer picture of who this character was and what he was doing in the scene.

So, TL;DR: My main takeaway was that the scene needed to cut right to the point. The rest of what I said is window-dressing and personal preference. Keep writing.

 

[Wayne Mack]

This section has very good descriptive text and it allows the reader to visualize the various scenes well.

Be careful about splitting descriptions into separate paragraphs; keep all of the descriptions of a single place or single character together. I found it a bit jarring to have the description of the unnamed elf (Vaust) in the first paragraph and then have to reimagine her when further description is presented in the third paragraph. I also felt confused by the delay in providing the characters' names. I was spending too much effort trying to figure out who was being described to pay attention to the actual descriptions.

As one of the purposes of the scene is for Astrin to hire Vaust and Garym, and the characters all presumably know this, mention why they are at the tavern in the opening paragraph; it is not a major plot reveal. This will give the reader a reason to read through the text that follows.

Watch out for POV changes. Most of the text is written in a distant third person (though, you may want to consider changing to a close third person POV). Towards the end, though, the story jumps into Garym's thoughts,

Not wanting to have his back to the room, and with Astrin’s cloak on the third chair, Garym reluctantly takes the seat next to the door. Somewhat uncomfortable with his back to the entrance, he does notice the door is blocked from swinging far enough to hit anyone sitting there.

There are also a couple of more minor POV breaks.

Vaust pauses, glancing at the thick wooded closure before grinning at the invitation, glad for his consideration.

Flourishing a hand, indicating Vaust’s start on the meal, he happily comments to Garym, “Please, eat. I’ll do the initial talking when I return.”

When formatting paragraphs, keep the actions of one character together and keep the actions of different characters separate. The first issue breaks continuity and confuses the reader as to who is acting. The second is jarring to the reader as he or she discovers that someone new is acting. For example,

Vaust hops off the seat holding her wine glass. She is halfway to the table by the time Astrin finishes talking to Garym. [Paragraph break here. Switching from Vaust to Garym.] Making a snort of humor, Garym shrugs his shoulders. [No paragraph break here. The following dialog is attributed to Garym.]

“Looks like that decision’s already been answered,” grinning in her direction. Taking a second glance at the wall covered in shields, he steps over to the table. [Paragraph break] Vaust is sliding around to the bench against the exterior wall. [Paragraph break. The following reads as if the action would be attributed to Vaust.] Not wanting to have his back to the room, and with Astrin’s cloak on the third chair, Garym reluctantly takes the seat next to the door.

Watch out for incomplete sentences. As a reader, I find these jarring and that they interrupt my flow as a go back to reread the previous sentence to try and understand the context. I am strongly in the camp of always setting off clauses with commas so as to avoid jumbling thoughts in the reader's mind. I find the following to be a good, concise guide for punctuation, The Punctuation Guide

Keep writing good descriptive text and add in a little more plot development and character dialog. I think you have an interesting tale in mind, but the extract did not provide enough detail for me to know what will unfold. Continue writing and you can always come back and edit previous sections as the tale unwinds.

 

[Toby Frost]

Firstly, I think this is pretty well-written. I don't particularly like the use of descriptions instead of nouns to prime the reader with details: "the muscular, master psionicist" instead of Garym, for instance, but it's clear to read.

My main problem is that there is a lot of stuff here that I wouldn't bother putting in, since it seems to be just extraneous detail. We don't need to know about the sugar on the ham, and perhaps not the ham itself or the rest of the food, for instance. I'm not sure that we need such a full description of Garym's equipment either, especially not here. If we do need to know all this technical detail, could it be added in gradually later, in a more organic way?

The reason I mention all this is that it doesn't seem necessary for the story. If someone said "It's a typical fantasy tavern", I'd think of something like this. In terms of moving the plot forward, they could just go straight into the back room and do whatever it is that they're going to do. Unless the food is important to the plot (it's poisoned, say) my feeling is that it just slows the plot down. Likewise, it's pretty rare that novels go into such details about clothing: if a wizard has a hat, I'd expect it to be dark and pointy, roughly like Gandalf's or Merlin's, and that's about it. If it was something very different from that, I'd mention it, but otherwise, the reader will probably think of something suitable. I think that leaving such details out gives the reader something to imagine, which gets them more involved in the story.

It reminds me a lot of the start of the first Dragonlance books, in which D&D-type characters meet in a tavern.

So I agree with much of what Sule says. The writing seems fine to me, but I think there's a lot of unnecessary description.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

It reminds me a lot of the start of the first Dragonlance books, in which D&D-type characters meet in a tavern.

This.

The writing, itself, reminds me of a Dungeon Master narrating a campaign more than a Story, in both the situation and the kind of description you use. The prose style is explains things in a factual way, but I don't feel there's a strong point of view or atmosphere at present.

Take this sentence:

"Those already in the room watch the attractive elf skip to a bar-stool, wearing a short, violet and gray dress."

It tells us that she's attractive, but not why the point of view character finds her attractive. It tells us what she's wearing but there's no sense of her character - the colours or style of dress don't paint a picture of the statement her clothes make about her personality. All the detail in the story should either reveal something relevant to understanding plot, character, atmosphere or location.

At the moment the dialogue is a little banal. Writers often leave out pleasantries unless there is something interesting happening or it reveals vital information about relationships, status or character. At the moment I don't get a sense of who these people are, what their personalities are like, or where this story is headed.

It might be better to cut to the quick here -- introduce some form of hook to lure the reader in, or have some exciting event for the reader to get to know what kind of people your characters are and their relationships.

On positives - the genre is clear, lots of words that fantasy readers will immediately recognise and latch onto and the world seems very realised. Can't beat a good tavern!

 

[The Judge]

Well done for putting your work up for critique. It's always a nerve-wracking experience, but a necessary one if we're to grow and develop as writers.

For myself, I agree with everything that's been said. To my mind there's very little here that is actually needed, since only a small part of it either propels the story forward or furthers characterisation or atmosphere, so I'd suggest pruning heavily and cutting to the chase. You might also think again about the POV you're using which serves to distance us from the characters, and about the present tense itself which to my mind isn't doing the story many favours with this POV.

Story-wise, a few bugbears of mine which you might want to think about:

• why a tavern scene, which of all fantasy scenes must be the most hackneyed? Are they meeting here because it's necessary for the plot or because you think it's cool/every story you've read has one? Although Astrin is the owner, why would he discuss private business in a room full of people, and right next to the door? Why haven't they met in his room(s), or a separate area of the tavern, or why hasn't he gone to them? By the way, strictly speaking, tavern and inn are not interchangeable terms so I'd suggest you decide which is needed and stick to that one.
• The setting appears to be the usual cod-medieval England. Have you done any research about life here prior to 1500? Visited any surviving/reconstructed/recreated medieval buildings? The taverns, inns and alehouses which crop up in films with huge rooms heated and lit by roaring open fires aren't at all accurate, I'm afraid, so if you're thinking of basing your tavern on them, you might want to reconsider. Nor are they anything like modern bars, so it's highly unlikely there would be seats at a bar, or, indeed, any kind of bar other than a serving hatch, and they definitely wouldn't be called bar stools. There also wouldn't be swing doors like in a saloon or restaurant, and meals are more likely to be served in a common room rather than a drinking area.
• Glass is very expensive, so isn't going to be found in a tavern. Platters might be made of fired clay (though more likely just wood or tin, or if the place is wealthy, pewter) but they're not described as clay, but as stoneware or pottery.
• In England, wine is expensive, not every establishment is allowed to sell it, and it's going to be pretty dire, so if this is actually set in the equivalent of the continent where wine is produced, the meal ought to reflect that and the different crops grown. Sugar is even more expensive -- for centuries most people would only encounter it as part of a herbalist's remedy, since it was an integral ingredient under the four humours conception of medicine and physiology, and it certainly wouldn't be wasted in vast quantities on meat. Potatoes weren't introduced until the 1500s, and well into the 1700s and later were feared to be poisonous since they're of the nightshade family, but if they are available in your world, as in Middle Earth, it's unlikely they'd be whipped (?mashed??) as that takes effort, and cetainly butter and cheese won't be wasted on them, nor on peas and carrots which simply wouldn't be served as a side dish. Bread isn't freshly baked unless this is early morning or you're speaking of flatbreads of some kind, because of the need for proving, and if you later describe it, it won't be fluffy white stuff. Utensils in the sense of knives and forks wouldn't be handed out -- forks weren't used for eating until late C15th by aristocrats, and not commonly among ordinary people for at least another hundred years; everyone carried a byknife to cut their meat, which they ate with their fingers or at the point of the knife.

Yes, I know this is fantasy, so what does it matter, and who cares about things like this, other than pedantic me?! But matters such as how buildings are designed, and how food and drink is prepared and served, all arise for reasons in the real world. So if your world is different -- sugar is really cheap as it's a by-product of something goblins make -- then to my mind you need to think about the differences and how they affect other matters, incorporating them into the world-building as a whole.

Grammar-wise:

• commas -- I noticed some missing where I'd have put them, and some inserted where I would have omitted them, but most are a matter of taste. (Over the last year my editor has consistently added commas where I've left them out, and removed them where I've added them, so go figure!) Some, though, are wrong eg
  • One would expect rain from such a setting, however one would be wrong on this day. -- semi-colon needed, not a comma
  • the overhanging, upper levels -- definitely no comma (Incidentally, although I've seen them called overhanging, the proper term is "jettied")
  • The mage, Astrin greets Garym -- a comma needed after "Astrin" to complete the sub-clause
• participial clauses -- for my taste you're using too many, and in at least one case they're used wrongly. There's a post about them here in The Toolbox which might be of help, but for now:
  • Entering the Brass Shield Inn, Vaust steps lightly to the left towards the bar, taking a seat. isn't correct as she can't possibly be entering the inn and stepping to the left to the bar at exactly the same time, so this needs to be eg "Having entered the inn, Vaust steps..." and similarly she can't be taking the seat then, it's eg "where she took a seat"
• fragments (ie sentences without the full complement of noun and main verb) -- while in grammatical terms incorrect, these can be effective but they have to be used judiciously, and in my view you certainly shouldn't be using participial clauses as alternatives to properly constructed sentences as you have here:
  • Lost in her narration about the inn and why they are there. would be far better running on from the previous sentence eg ... tavern, so lost has she been in her narration ...
  • Observing the room in general and the wall with the various shields in particular. should be eg ... physique who is observing the room ...
  • “Looks like that decision’s already been answered,” grinning in her direction. is missing the dialogue tag and should be eg ...answered," he said, grinning ...
• infelicities/ambiguities -- these aren't necessarily grammatically incorrect, though sometimes they're flirting with it, but they read badly eg:
  • watch the attractive elf skip to a bar-stool, wearing a short, violet and gray dress. -- a bar-stool wearing a dress?! OK, the comma probably saves that one, but it's touch and go, and Vaust hops off the seat holding her wine glass. definitely reads as the seat holding her glass
• wrong punctuation eg
  • mentioning in friendly but quiet tones. -- should end with a colon (or possibly a comma, but that wouldn't be as effective)
• word use, eg
  • thick wooded closure -- a hill might be wooded, but a door is wooden. It occurs to me you might have intended thick-wooded with a hyphen since you've omitted required hyphens in other places (eg broad-brimmed hat), but while that might technically be correct, it's really not to be recommended. Actually, the expression itself is really not a good idea since "closure" sounds really odd
  • mentioning (in friendly ...) isn't an exact synonym for eg saying, which is to be preferred here
  • carameled should be caramelised/caramelized

Sorry that all sounds so negative. As others have said, you've got an easily readable style, and notwithstanding my nit-picks, once you've sorted out your participial clauses, and perhaps checked your word use a bit more, there won't be a lot wrong with your prose itself. You've clearly got a good idea of your characters and what's happening, and it's simply a question of building on those solid foundations and making every word count, to keep your readers reading. So keep writing and good luck with it!

 

[tinkerdan]

Technically speaking this reads quite well.
However there are a number of things that make it not work for me.

Start with this.

Covering the afternoon sky is a thick blanket of gray clouds. One would expect rain from such a setting, however one would be wrong on this day. The temperature is pleasant and there is no feel or smell of rain in the southern breeze.

This is quite close to the old favorite--It was a dark and stormy night....
However if you are going for that you need to do it proper.
The afternoon sky is a thick covering blanket of gray clouds that one would expect harboring accompanying rain; however, today one would be wrong, as the temperature is pleasant and holds no feel or smell of rain in its southern breeze.
All one sentence.

The real point though(all kidding aside)is that there really isn't any reason for us to know all this in the present settings and the present time.

So I might agree with others that you start in the wrong place.
However, I'm of a mind that there are really no wrong places to start.
So there is something else amiss.

One thing is that in this particular piece--nothing really happens.
You change up the scene from outdoors to the bar to a table and really nothing happens.
I'm also of the mind that that is not necessarily a bad thing.
However there is still something wrong.

I almost found it difficult to pinpoint the POV. Point of View and the strength of the narrator are what are going to get you through this.
It seems to be Omniscient and somewhat objective. However...

Garym Alandras politely listens as Vaust talks on about the inn.

This threw me a bit because it was a bit more subjective in that objectively one would be showing something that looks like polite listening rather than telling us what it is. But this is just a nit pick.

The Point of View is really important enough that I think that it would work better if it were close to one of the characters. If we knew what they thought and felt and smelled and heard and saw from their perspective it might add the depth that this piece needs to draw in the reader.

Even an Omniscient subjective that focused on one character would add the character to narration that seems to be missing here.

Right now this reads like a camera that is watching these people and yet not noticing any real emotions of interest from them; though occasionally kibitzing by telling us what someone is doing--like patiently listening.

What might work better would be to get into that characters head and show us how patient they are by what they might be really thinking at the time.

Just some thoughts.
Present tense is also a challenge that you have to work harder at than other writing so keep that in mind.

Keep writing.

 

[Toby Frost]

Yes, I know this is fantasy, so what does it matter, and who cares about things like this, other than pedantic me?!

I agree with the points you're making, but I see this kind of setting as nothing to do with reality, to be honest (no offence intended to the OP). I mentioned Dungeons and Dragons because it felt so much like that, and because that's surely now an established setting, even though it's at least three steps removed from any attempt at historical realism. For better or worse, in the sort of magic-heavy setting where "adventurer" is a more popular job than "farmer", "fantasy inn" is a Victorian inn, not a medieval one. D&D is less like the mock-historical writing of, say, Tolkien, and more like one of those American Renaissance Fayres, except that all the costumes work. So I don't really have much of an issue with it, so long as (as you say) the internal logic is there - although in such a setting, much of the internal logic boils down to "it's magic".

 

[The Judge]

I agree this kind of setting is nothing to do with reality -- it's the literary equivalent of the castles in Holly wood films which are all cavernous halls and huge bedrooms -- but I'm on a one-woman crusade to nudge writers into bringing some elements of reality to fantasy!

To me, it's akin to the argument about what's more important -- a good plot or good writing. I want both! I don't expect anyone to spend years researching medieval history to get everything 100% accurate (which most so-called historical novels certainly don't manage!). But with all due respect to jjcomet and anyone else writing this D&D-like stuff I can't understand why someone wouldn't want to elevate his/her work and make it stand out from the crowd by thinking more seriously about food and customs and agriculture and trade and how it all fits together in world-building, rather than taking a somewhat naive view of what people eat and how they build their homes or clothe themselves.

It's not rocket science (if it were, then I'd be wholly at sea!) -- it's simply a matter of questioning assumptions, thinking a little more deeply, and looking a few things up. We want our characters to feel real rather than cartoonish cardboard cut outs, so why shouldn't we want their background to feel real, too?!

And on a more serious note, history is having a hard time around the world at the moment, with demagogues of all stripes re-writing it to suit their political ends and the mass of the population just accept what is being said without critical thinking or any research. Adding a byknife into an adventurer's hand in a D&D fantasy might not protect us from all that, but who knows, it might just get someone asking a question, which leads on to more questions, more answers and some actual thinking, which is never a bad thing.

And with apologies to jjcomet for taking this off-topic, here endeth today's lecture on my History Rules Manifesto!

 

[JS Wiig]

@The Judge actually your semi-rant is quite helpful and something that I will take into consideration with my writing moving forward, which is—I believe—at least (partially) what the Critiques forum is about.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I think that what you want to ensure is an air of believability. As long as what you write

Technically speaking this reads quite well.
However there are a number of things that make it not work for me.

Start with this.

This is quite close to the old favorite--It was a dark and stormy night....
However if you are going for that you need to do it proper.
The afternoon sky is a thick covering blanket of gray clouds that one would expect harboring accompanying rain; however, today one would be wrong, as the temperature is pleasant and holds no feel or smell of rain in its southern breeze.
All one sentence.

The real point though(all kidding aside)is that there really isn't any reason for us to know all this in the present settings and the present time.

So I might agree with others that you start in the wrong place.
However, I'm of a mind that there are really no wrong places to start.
So there is something else amiss.

One thing is that in this particular piece--nothing really happens.
You change up the scene from outdoors to the bar to a table and really nothing happens.
I'm also of the mind that that is not necessarily a bad thing.
However there is still something wrong.

I almost found it difficult to pinpoint the POV. Point of View and the strength of the narrator are what are going to get you through this.
It seems to be Omniscient and somewhat objective. However...

This threw me a bit because it was a bit more subjective in that objectively one would be showing something that looks like polite listening rather than telling us what it is. But this is just a nit pick.

The Point of View is really important enough that I think that it would work better if it were close to one of the characters. If we knew what they thought and felt and smelled and heard and saw from their perspective it might add the depth that this piece needs to draw in the reader.

Even an Omniscient subjective that focused on one character would add the character to narration that seems to be missing here.

Right now this reads like a camera that is watching these people and yet not noticing any real emotions of interest from them; though occasionally kibitzing by telling us what someone is doing--like patiently listening.

What might work better would be to get into that characters head and show us how patient they are by what they might be really thinking at the time.

Just some thoughts.
Present tense is also a challenge that you have to work harder at than other writing so keep that in mind.

Keep writing.

I agree in general with this. What you have written feels more like a screenplay; you've given the actors their direction, you've set the scene - now they have to look and act the part to get this across to the audience. The problem is though that if this is a book rather than tv or film, you have to fill in those gaps for yourself.

To write in the present tense from a somewhat distant, omniscient viewpoint does seem to be quite a challenge to set yourself; I think you will do well to carry it off successfully over the course of a full story. I think (if you haven't done already) you need to know who your narrator is , and just what they are able to relate to the reader. It may be worth considering having a narrator who is closer to the action ; perhaps one of the protagonists long-standing companions? That way you don't have to concern yourself with what your characters are feeling or thinking; but your narrator could make suppositions based on what he sees and knows of them.

I also agree with what some have said regarding the believability of your settings; you don't want to make it too hackneyed or cliched , but you also don't want to alienate yourself from your target audience. I think the most important thing is for the events, people and places in your story to be consistent and to be believable; would such a rough-and ready place as your tavern offer such fine dining? Maybe in The Prancing Pony, but not likely in a tavern with shields decorating the walls. And would an experienced swordsman like Garym sit with his back to a door - however uncomfortably? I would think that he would suggest on either wedging the door shut, or more likely suggesting his host sit there, whilst he sit opposite.

Having said that , there is much to like. You have an enjoyable, easy flowing style of writing which I enjoyed reading. If you haven't already, I would suggest it is a good idea to enter some of the 75/100/300 word challenges, as your style of writing would sit well there.

 

[jjcomet]

First and foremost to all who have replied - Thanks!!!
Now, this being my first time, and I am only through reading the third review - I'm sore. Oh, I knew going in I would be raked over the coals for my lack of writing knowledge, but wow. All helpful and insightful - though really shows how differently I need to look at things.
Will get to individual reviews after I put on some ointments.
Later.

 

[jjcomet]

I finished the 4th review and have to start getting things down before I get overwhelmed.
The problem I have read from some (and in other critiques I read and reviewed) is that you are looking for description on characters, plot to the scene, ect. Hard to do that in only 1,000 or so words. I am (trying) to write a book, not a short story. I do greatly appreciate the feed-back but this is an excerpt from the 3rd chapter, some things are already spelled out. Well, after reading these reviews I thought I was doing that.
Now for the individual responses I have worked on so far.

 

[jjcomet]

For Sule -
Yea, thought the meal was a bit too much. Though, as they say - a picture is worth a thousand words. And it is referring to the fine food served at the inn. Otherwise simply stating they were eating a meal, could be interpreted as basically eating iron rations.

The 3 different references to Garym. Just trying to give various references than continually saying Garym or he all the time. But I take your point and will look for ways to change. To be organic is what I am reading. Need to figure that out. I will switch the more in-depth description of Garym to the beginning.

The change in locations is to (1) show the forgetfulness of a character - Vaust. Moving to the bar is a previous happening by Vaust and simply following an established habit - something not know in just 1,000 words. At the bar introductions are made - why rush or forget pleasantries?

Pet peeve's - Perfunctory descriptions:
True, I do that. It is how I am. For I have a limited sense on how to describe someone I am imagining - guess lack of interest in people when I was growing up. (For tangible descriptions I apparently am doing ok.) Refer to making a drawing - I can only do stick figures, not a portrait. So too with my concept of imagining people. I give a basic form and thought the reader can fill in the rest. Like Micheal Moorcock's Elric series (for an example) - just basic descriptions that are enhanced through the various books. Sorry, may be loosing track. But does give me something to work on and make organic.

Soporific effect - Ouch!
But I see your point. Guess a lack of writing knowledge. Which, by the way, leads me to admit I had to use the dictionary for a few words you used in your review. Denoting my vernacular limitation in writing and vocabulary.

However, thanks for your words. I will take them ( and everyone else's ) and try and shift through the remains of my efforts and re-build on your insights. I do have a long way to go, where I thought I was nearing the top, now I am back at the bottom again. Yet, that is what I am here.
Thanks.

 

[jjcomet]

To Wayne Mack -
Ok, information up front. Though Ian Flemming did not give everything away about 007 in the first page or so. But I understand your point in establishing a character upon introduction.

The reason for them to be hired - was established in the previous chapter. Though I can mention Garym being apprehensive (or something) about why he is at the inn.

You mentioned a close third person POV - what is that?

Having different actions for characters separate with paragraph breaks. Now that is something I truly did not see. I just thought it would look like filling the pages with more lines. Will have to adjust that in my writing (style?).

Thanks for the site to check out.

As mentioned with Sule - hard to tell a books' worth of story in just a 1,000 words. But your insight will be used.

Thank you.

 

[jjcomet]

Now on to Toby Frost -
Remember, I'm taking them one at a time (and have not been through all the responses), so may have gaps if anyone replies more than once.

Description instead of nouns - I was trying to get away from a constant referral to saying Garym all the time, which to me sounds like a one note chord. But guess it could be too much.

Yes, as with Sule, the meal may have been excessive.

For Garym's look and equipment, this is his first introduction to the reader. True, I have been told about my perfunctory description and need to change to more organic.
As far as the hat - it is a Stetton type of hat. And since Stetton is a trademark, did not know if I could say it. I have three horses and do wear one. And are there really 'cowboys' in the fantasy realms? So how else was I going to describe the hat without everyone thinking a pointed wizards hat?

Your asking to leave some descriptions out, for the reader fill in something suitable on their own. And yet Sule mentions perfunctory descriptions. Which road to take . . . . ?
And the action at the bar was a simple introduction before the nitty-gritty of the meeting.

Love the Dragon Lance books! I even have the animated DVD of 'Dragons of Autumn Twilight'. Too bad they did not make any more.

Thanks for your help.

 

[jjcomet]

In response to Mon0Zer0 -
Prose style,

The writing, itself, reminds me of a Dungeon Master narrating a campaign more than a Story, in both the situation and the kind of description you use.

Ha! That is exactly how my 1st initial attempts to write was like. And why those friends got tired of what I was sending them. For I was simply being a character playing D&D and that is how I was writing. They said it was too much description. i.e. 'the hall is eight feet wide by forty feet long.' now it is, ' a long hallway.' I have cut out a lot of that type of measurement descriptions. Trying to let the reader fill in the blanks on their own. Guess that did not work with you, on what I thought was progress. Have to work on this 'Organic' style all of you are talking about.

And as I have mentioned to the other reviews. Hard to tell a story from a book (with 11 chapters) in just 1,000 words. As for Vaust, she is already established, and those sitting in the room have seen her the day before.

Banal? - Again Ouch!

Some kind of hook to getting interested. Hard to do with only a snippet from the book.
I had read, in another critique post I reviewed, that someone mentioned being tired of reading fight scenes. So I chose this non-combative sample of my work (for punishment).

Writers often leave out pleasantries unless there is something interesting happening or it reveals vital information about relationships, status or character.

I like the simple pleasantries. Just because current society is getting to the point where everyone will soon live in hover-chairs and their meals (and everything else) delivered to them. Or where they do not have to have their hands on the steering wheel in cars, or everything is emog's. Sorry - getting side tracked. But what is wrong with reading about two people being introduced?

Thanks for the feed-back.

 

[jjcomet]

Ok, I'm bruised, beaten and broke.
Have to take a break for a while, to let my head stop spinning. Then proceed to assimilate the remaining reviews and see how the rest of you flay my work. It is greatly appreciated and requested, just a lot to go over.
Later.

 

[jjcomet]

The Judge - Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

And so I will apologize to all of you who have read this sample and went yuck! This idiot does not know how to write. And it really looks like you are right.
So that is why I am here - to find what I did wrong and try and fix things. Especially grammer-wise, though I have no way of asking the question when I don't know there is a problem. Again, limited writing knowledge.

And yet, the various books I have read over the years, all read differently. So where is the common thread that says their right - except that they have been published. I previously mentioned the Elric series, (enjoyed them very much). However, to me, Michael Moorcock continually uses run-on sentences.
Sorry, getting brain-fried. Better stop now before I really say something wrong.

 

[Wayne Mack]

You mentioned a close third person POV - what is that?

Some others may want to jump in and help out, but I would describe close third person as describing the scene using what what a single character sees, hears, smells, etc., with, optionally, delving into that character's thoughts and reactions. This is opposed to a third person omniscient, where the perspective is outside of the sense of all of the characters (a bird's eye view), and, optionally, delving into the thoughts and reactions of one or more characters.

My opinion is that the omniscient view is colder, while the close perspective is more engaging to the reader and tends to build a bond with the POV character. With close third person, the writer can 'shade' the scene, by focusing on what a specific character would notice and omitting items that the character would overlook. This helps give a feel for who the character is.

I would not be too concerned over the use of present tense versus past tense; if the reader is noticing that, then it is an indication that the reader is not engaged with the story. If the reader is engaged, the tense will not be noticed.

You can leverage your descriptive prose by coloring it with how a specific character views the world. Different characters will focus on different aspects based on their personalities and interests. I hope this helps and sparks some ideas for you to try.