Stranger Things - Season 4 part II (episodes 8-9) [SPOILERS for 1-7]

[ctg]

Spoiler: Chapter 9 - The Piggyback

So I did a little digging, to get to Hawkins from Nevada desert, the boys have to drive 28 hours straight and I don't think the pizza taxi is going to make it. Flying from the russia with a helicopter, even longer.

The Scooby gang's military wing. To my eye they'd been have more believable as wearing civilian clothes instead of using the mil-kit as if they're professionals. Only Justin and Eddie looked right for the role, because none of them are heroes. They are all kids and I don't them to become heroes, even thought they are showing fearlessness.

I loved the gateway fort that Justin and Eddie managed to fabricate from junk pieces. It looked proper and also something that the kids would do, without having an idea what's actually workable.

Boys, El and the Piggyback plan. To me, this presented as clever writing, using El's power to reach Max's mind and getting into the fight, while still being in the Nevada desert. No 28 hour drive, wishing for the pizza taxi to make it. Just a motel, bathtub, salt and fun times. Except Argyle didn't have that in his mind. Instead, he had a place. WTF?

How did he drive so fast to the pizza parlour? Is America like UK, where everything is around the corner all of so suddenly, and the Nevada branch was just there, a hop away?

At least they managed to defreeze the fridge, fill it with salty water and even make a pizza, before El went under and found out that Max's plan didn't work. Not for the first time. Not before El got involved and Eddie started playing Master of the Puppets to lure away the bat creatures, and Max entered into a happy memory that Vecna started to twist.

Maybe the biggest twist was with Eddie shoving Justin back to the real-world, and then playing the real hero card by sacrificing himself to the bats. All before El found a way to get into Max's memory to show Vecna who's the boss.

Except that didn't happen and El got trapped, and were forced to listen No 1's blathering about who's really responsible about everything. It was a slight surprise that during No 1's exploration, 11's mind connected to his vision, and thus she was able to draw the Soggoth, without ever realizing what she was really seeing.

It's sad that Max and Eddie ended up being the last victim for Vecna's curse, before the dimensional rift tore Sinclair in half.

The cunning plan, go back to prison and destroy "monster particles" with a flamethrower, while Yuri fixes the helicopter. What could go wrong, or actually could it at all work?

Yuri did find his courage after a bit of pushing, but Hopper's side went into warzone, willingly. It's just when they got into the prison, no blood, no guts or brain matter. Instead all of the monsters had broken out and only made a mess, until they got into the prison side. Then the corpses started to appear. So who let the Soggoth/Shadow out?

The best moment in the prison fight was with the Murray going all out and Hopper picking up the arena sword afterwards to put down the demigorgon.

The end of Hawkins, just because nobody knows how to double tap. What a shame. There's no fixing it. No way to hide it. El tried to fix Max, but no luck. At least Hopper got back home.

Does the end mean that the Soggoth is coming home?

 

[Boaz]

Well, I was surprised by the length of episode nine. It went another two hours after I said to myself, "They've got to start wrapping this up."

I have enjoyed the series and I will watch the final season.

But Henry One Vecna's five minute plot exposition in episode nine was tiring.... and that's on top of the ten minute plot exposition in episode seven! The writers have shown themselves to be great storytellers at times and both of these harangues at Eleven are horrible storytelling. It is much more interesting to have Hopper, Joyce, Murray, the teenagers, or the kids guess at or piece together the clues... even if they don't get it right. Information dumps by the villain are boring.

One bit of difficulty is that there were up to eight locations that needed simultaneous updating during the finale.

Spoiler: Final Showdown

In Hawkins...
1. Jonathan, Will, Mike, pizza stoned, and El.
2. Max, Lucas, and basketball captain.
3. Erica and basketball player.
4. Dustin.
In Kamchatka...
5. Hopper, Joyce, Murray, guard, and psycho pilot.
In the Upside-down...
6. Eddie and bats.
7. Nancy, Steve, and Steve's friend.
In Max's mind...
8. Max, El, and Henry One Vecna.

I understand the epic proportions that the writers desire to convey. The globe spanning catastrophe ahead... The battle rages between reality, alternate-reality and the human brain... But this numberof ongoing cliffhangers erodes the believability of time... timeliness... and timing... Don't string the resolution out unecessarily to try and build suspense. If the characters have been properly developed and the story is great, then the suspense is already there for a competent audience.

"I'm going to make some popcorn. No, don't pause it.... just keep going... I can hear it. You want some popcorn? Give me shout when there is some resolution and we get back to the story, okay? What? Oh yeah, I'll put milk on the grocery list... What about dog food? Yeah, toilet paper too. Hey do you want butter on your popcorn? Garlic? Dang, no garlic. I'll put that on the list as well. What's that? Yes, I called the AC guy. He'll be here some time tomorrow afternoon. Nah, he just said after noon. Well, it's supposed to rain overnight so it should not get too hot tomorrow. Popcorn's done.... you want a drink. Come on, bourbon goes great with popcorn. Well, I'm having some. Okay.... here's your bowl... here's my bowl... NO! Chomper! Bad dog. No popcorn for you... Look, here's a greenie treat... Sit. Sit. Sit. Good dog. Alright.... did I miss anything? Good."

 

[HareBrain]

Well, E9 was better than E8. It still needed tightening by at least half an hour, but it held my attention and there were some moving moments (though some of the moments the writers clearly felt were meant to be moving fell a bit flat for me).

Interestingly: it turns out Major Sullivan was right in a way to think that Eleven was the source of the catastrophes, though he was a few years too late to do anything about it. And what's happened to him anyway? Is he going to appear in S5?

I couldn't work out if the revelation that One was behind everything from the beginning really works. Some of the retconning felt a bit shaky.

But it sets everything up well enough for S5, which won't have such problems as people starting in widely different locations, so I'll look kindly on it, even though it was bloated and nowhere near as good as S1.

 

[Boaz]

Well, E9 was better than E8. It still needed tightening by at least half an hour, but it held my attention and there were some moving moments (though some of the moments the writers clearly felt were meant to be moving fell a bit flat for me).

Interestingly: it turns out Major Sullivan was right in a way to think that Eleven was the source of the catastrophes, though he was a few years too late to do anything about it. And what's happened to him anyway? Is he going to appear in S5?

I couldn't work out if the revelation that One was behind everything from the beginning really works. Some of the retconning felt a bit shaky.

But it sets everything up well enough for S5, which won't have such problems as people starting in widely different locations, so I'll look kindly on it, even though it was bloated and nowhere near as good as S1.

Completely agree.

I don't want people to think that I did not enjoy the fourth season.

 

[HareBrain]

there were some moving moments (though some of the moments the writers clearly felt were meant to be moving fell a bit flat for me).

I've been thinking about this a bit. They have some top-flight actors who can convey natural emotion brilliantly. But the writers have a tendency to do emotional speeches (like between Hopper and Joyce, and Mike inspiring Eleven) that just aren't like how people really communicate, they're like how scriptwriters think they should communicate to land the emotional "beats", and these fall flat. A shame.

 

[Dave]

I haven't had time to watch these yet. I've been away, I'm back home now, but out again tomorrow, and busy on Tuesday night. Given the length of these, I don't know when I will have the time. This show now seems to have a cult following though, and can seem to do no wrong at all. So, all the complaints made here about the plotting and pacing are as much a waste of time as complaining about Obi-Wan Kenobi to Star Wars fans.

 

[Mouse]

I couldn't work out if the revelation that One was behind everything from the beginning really works. Some of the retconning felt a bit shaky.

Yeah I wasn't so sure about that. Especially when the kids first said he was only a 'general'. That feels more like it to me, that there's something even bigger than him.

I enjoyed it but it was a bit long. Could've done without the Russian stuff, it just didn't really interest me and I'm still not quite sure how it all fit in. How did the Russians find out about the Upside Down and why is there a portal in Russia anyway? I did think Joyce and co were going to go through the Upside Down Russian side to get back to Hawkins but they didn't.

Still no idea how Papa survived being dead in series one and I guess we'll never find out.

I thought that

Spoiler

Eddie would die doing something heroic

so that was no surprise.

Argyle, still no.

Still love Steve, Robin & Dustin. Apparently there's going to be a spin off show but unless it's The Adventures of Steve, Robin & Dustin then I'm not interested. Hopefully in series 5 Nancy will dump useless Jonathan and get back with Steve.

Saying that, I did like Jonathan's talk to Will - obviously he's aware Will is gay and is letting him know it's ok.

I read that there's going to be a jump in time for series 5 to explain the kids ages, but I can't see how they can just jump forward after that series 4 ending. Like,

Spoiler

there's this big Upside Down doom cloud over Hawkins for the last three years but we're all fine with it

doesn't seem right.

Oh, Erica is also kick-ass.

 

[HareBrain]

I can't see how they can just jump forward after that series 4 ending. Like,

Spoiler

there's this big Upside Down doom cloud over Hawkins for the last three years but we're all fine with it

doesn't seem right.

I dunno, back in the eighties we all lived under one of those.

 

[paeng]

I read that viewer ratings in some sites have gone down compared to earlier seasons, and probably because the '80s nostalgia and small-town presence no longer dominate. There are also awkward scenes inserted in episodes that are already made complex through parallel plots. Finally, some in other forums complain that some of the characters' behavior doesn't make sense.

 

[ctg]

I read that viewer ratings in some sites have gone down compared to earlier seasons, and probably because the '80s nostalgia and small-town presence no longer dominate.

No. It's one of the most popular Netflix shows and when it came back over 15 million US households tuned in to watch it.

Finally, some in other forums complain that some of the characters' behavior doesn't make sense.

There are a lot of things that don't make sense. Nevertheless, could you give us an example?

 

[Dave]

It's hugely popular, enormous, and now mainstream, and because of the news around the Kate Bush song, friends of mine, and even my wife, who would never watch "science fiction" have now heard of it. Last weekend I even saw people wearing "stranger things" T-shirts. But, while I haven't yet seen the final two episodes, I think that the last few seasons could never capture the same essence and warmth that those first two seasons had. That often happens with TV shows (the ones that don't get cancelled after one season.)

 

[Dave]

because the '80s nostalgia and small-town presence no longer dominate.

I just came across this pop-up advertisement: Stranger Things - The Experience - London

I don't think this would make any money if that that were the case because it isn't people who 'lived through the 1980's' who will buy tickets to an event that allows you to "Immerse yourself on your own adventure" and to be "be the protagonist of a Stranger Things adventure." My daughter would take part in this kind of thing but I don't know any of my generation that would. Of course, this might only prove that I have very boring friends and relations, because it sounds quite good!

 

[ctg]

Duffer brothers talk about season 4 and the final season that should be shorter than the previous ones.

 

[Judderman]

Well they were great fun. Definitely convoluted in places but it kept my interest over huge episodes. No need for nearly half an hour of “charming” wrap-up at the end with another season coming though.
It is a little cheesy but is based on kids 80s adventures after all.
Have to love that intro music.

 

[Judderman]

Will is surely a hero to be in the final season.

 

[REBerg]

04.8

Spoiler

Dr Brenner died. Not going to miss him.

That took long enough. I half-expected him to pop up and wave goodbye, after all that drawn-out, love-hate Papa drama.

 

[paeng]

No. It's one of the most popular Netflix shows and when it came back over 15 million US households tuned in to watch it.


There are a lot of things that don't make sense. Nevertheless, could you give us an example?

I'm referring to the RT ratings, from 97 to 89 pct, and Metacritic, from 76 to 69-72:

Stranger Things - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

About things that don't make sense, there are several examples in various reviews. Here's one referring to Season 3 (warning: NSFW):

Interestingly enough, the same review argued that Season 4 became better (same warning):

but it also looked bloated to me, and ironically because of reasons that cast the previous season in a negative light.

For me, it started as a horror version of E.T. (nerds playing RPGs and contending with socials and jocks) combined with Lovecraft's elder ones and secret government, and all sprinkled with multiple references to the 1980s, but all of that was slowly set aside to create what would become a combination of kids and adults vs. monsters vs. government group vs. government group, and so on.

 

[paeng]

I just came across this pop-up advertisement: Stranger Things - The Experience - London

I don't think this would make any money if that that were the case because it isn't people who 'lived through the 1980's' who will buy tickets to an event that allows you to "Immerse yourself on your own adventure" and to be "be the protagonist of a Stranger Things adventure." My daughter would take part in this kind of thing but I don't know any of my generation that would. Of course, this might only prove that I have very boring friends and relations, because it sounds quite good!

I think the same thing, too, especially given news about Netflix and BlackRock:

That is, given the need to sell to an audience that mostly don't care about the 1980s, why even bother set it in that period? I can only guess it's because the main characters were RPG enthusiasts (which dominated during the 1980s) who saw connections between their hobby and the monsters they encountered in the show. But except for a few references in the fourth season, that theme didn't prevail, and it's probably because the show became more popular among those who cared little for the 1980s and RPGs.

 

[paeng]

Some asides: for those wondering about that kids-RPG-1980s-alien ethos, they can probably see that in some scenes from the movie E.T. For example,

For an example of notable dialogue, here's one clip about the family not believing the kid, a funny remark and reaction, followed by pathos. Not bad. I think the closest I saw to that in the show came from Joyce's character:

Dude, your mom's pretty hot. LOL.

 

[Dave]

I don't want to get into a debate about the popularity of Netflix here, but Stranger Things is one of the shows that made it grow so big, and it is easy to see why they like it so much. Yes, it owes a heavy debt to ET. I was speaking to friends at the weekend without Netflix, who had only heard of it because of the Kate Bush track being number one in the UK charts. I explained that it was set in the late 1980's with an eighties soundtrack. I said it was kids on bikes investigating the paranormal. Straight away, they said, "Oh! It's ET then!"

I've now seen episode 8, Papa. I don't think I had such a high expectation of it, because I thought it was good and well-paced. Plot holes? Yes, there are ubiquitous plot holes. None are quite as big as Hopper smashing his ankle with a sledgehammer and then running, jumping and fighting monsters, but you do have to wonder why the US military only has one single helicopter and one rifle.

Why is Sullivan so angry? I don't know that either. They seem to think that the psionic experiments were fundamentally evil and maybe he is a religious zealot? I guess we aren't going to find out the reason. This hatred of people with psionic abilities was another 1980's theme that they have borrowed from and used within Stranger Things. You see it best in Roger Price's The Tomorrow People and the despising of the Homo Superiors (a word used by David Bowie in Oh! You Pretty Things and then later in Marvel's X-Men comics by Magneto to refer to mutants.)