I've decided to take a break from my fanfiction mess and write a simple original fiction.

[Bramandin]

It sounds as if you've got enough how-to books. The one thing I'd suggest is to read fiction. Almost all the examples you've given are from TV, comics, anime etc, which work differently to novels. As well as understanding what the techniques are, you do need to see them used.

I'd suggest writing a fairly simple short story, with a linear plot. That way you'll be able to get some experience of plotting without the temptation to lose the plot, so to speak.



In my case, only that it's not entirely yours. I've written for Warhammer 40,000 and it was a lot of fun, but the things I wrote can't ever be mine (certainly not in terms of IP!).

Are any of those how-to books any good? I do have a pile of fiction to go through. My examples are from TV and such because they're popular. There are so many books that the chances of other people having read the same ones are slim once I depart from the big ones. Like I've read American Gods enough to follow people talking about the show even though I couldn't stand the show. I don't know how many people here would read something like New Game Minus and now Legends and Lattes is on my list.

My plan is to focus on that one character. It's probably going to be a bit like the story that was being written down in Name of the Wind except shorter and simpler.

About Fanfiction, I'm not really concerned about how much I own the story, considering that my aim is to get good enough to publish, not write a story to be published.

 

[The Judge]

I know different people learn in different ways, but I can't help thinking that if the number of How-To books and/or articles you've read so far haven't allowed you to internalise what is needed in a story, then getting another isn't likely to help.

At present it does seem to me that you're like a would-be patisserie chef desperately trying to find out how to make a cake. But the fact is that every cake is different and techniques will vary according to what kind of cake is required -- even something as simple as scones (British teatime scones, that is) can have a dozen slightly different recipes with different ingredients or in different proportions, and sometimes the only answer is to try every single recipe and find out which works best for your personal skill-set and taste.

So to me it appears that the problem isn't that different books give different emphasis on different techniques, but that you're not applying them for the story you're wanting to write, which may come down to the fact that you've been unfeasibly ambitious in what you've attempted to write so far -- you've set out to make a five-tier royal wedding cake before you've actually mastered how to make a basic Victoria sponge.

I'd suggest that you hone your skills by writing short stories and getting them critiqued -- they will force you to create a plot with a proper beginning, middle and end, with dialogue that carries the story forward and characters with agency. Those techniques will then stand you in good stead as you make longer stories and eventually full-length novels.

There's another 300 worder coming along on 1 July, but in the meantime I'd suggest you look out some Challenges of the last year, find an image that inspires you and try your hand at that story, and then put it up in the Improving thread to get feedback. When you've done a few of those, and you've taken on board the advice given, try another image but this time make it a 750 or 1000 word story -- not by inflating word count, but by adding more characters, or creating a minor subplot -- and that can go up in Critiques.

Of course, the Challenges won't directly help anyone plot a full-length novel complete with character arcs and subplots and all the rest of it, but they will teach discipline in cutting out excess verbiage and unnecessary fat in one's writing. And at some point if we want to be taken on by an agent or publisher we may well have to come up with an elevator pitch of around 75-100 words, and while that pitch won't need to have the characteristics of a complete story, it will need to be properly constructed, with attention paid to using the right words in the right order -- a skill that can definitely be learned in flash fiction.

 

[Bramandin]

I know different people learn in different ways, but I can't help thinking that if the number of How-To books and/or articles you've read so far haven't allowed you to internalise what is needed in a story, then getting another isn't likely to help.

I uh... haven't actually read any of those books. I stole most of them off of my parent's bookcase, they went through four moves, and I keep forgetting that I had them because they got lost in the noise. Well, I read part of Sandman Companion, got distracted while waiting for the matching book to come in, and forgot what I read so far.

I recognise that I need to go back to the basic sponge, that's why I'm stepping back from that mess of a fanfiction for something straightforward. If you look at part eight of Drop a Stone on AO3, you'll find a wonderful example of a literary mud-pie. (I wouldn't mind someone doing a MST3K-style mockery of that one; I'm not up to salvaging it.)

I did look at an image for a previous challenge, some sort of golem made from crabs, but none of the entries. I'm not sure if images don't spark for me, or if it was just that one. (I'll keep trying until I'm sure it doesn't work.) What really sparks for me is watching documentaries and daydreaming scenarios between a culture that has our technology level or higher and a culture that is more Amish/Renaissance level.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Even if you know the recipe, that does not mean you can bake a perfect scone. Let alone this mouth-watering five-tier royal wedding cake TJ is speaking about. You can learn all the important recipes there are and still be nowhere. It is with actual baking and the acceptance that failures come before edible cakes that will teach you the process.
You can over-theorize. That was my first thought when I saw that huge pile of books about writing. I like writing (without calling myself a writer) and I practice my techniques by writing and doing the challenges. Once I feel confident AND get a good idea for longer stories or even a novel, I'll dive into some theoretics about plotting and stuff. Most importantly, to me anyway, is not destroying the fun of writing and the drive I have in creating something that wasn't there before I took up the pen. Theorizing too much would hazard that creative feeling.

But, as I said, I don't call myself a writer, so take my words with a barrel of salt and keep that barrel separated from your recipes.

 

[The Big Peat]

First off - nothing wrong with fan fiction. All writing has its uses, lots of published authors with fanfic phases, some of them with works that suggest they haven't really changed subject matter at all or in a few cases, many words.

Second - tbh, I don't find the 75 worder that useful either.


Third, most importantly... I feel like this is said in every single one of your threads to the point where I'm debating the usefulness of saying it but -

Stop worrying about whether you know enough or what the writing advice is saying and just get stuck in. I suspect you have a highly ordered mind and dislike the idea of spending your time doing trial and error when you suspect there's a better way, and find it more mentally taxing than most of us here. Well... sooner or later, it comes down to trial and error. Because that's how you integrate what you learn, and learn what works for you.

So let's move on to

Point Four - Let's help you with that education then.

I've read none of those books you reference, so I've no idea how they'll go for you.

Save the Cat is good, but very film orientated, and can trip you up. Wonderbook is incredible in places, and confusing in places.

Here's a list of free resources that I think could really help you:

Jim Butcher On Writing - I found this series of articles by Jim Butcher a life saver when I was new to writing and just didn't know what to do when. This is a great crash course on basic story structure for entertaining genre fiction that you can read quick.

Finch Novel, Opening Chapters: Discarded Approaches - Jeff VanderMeer - this is a very involved breakdown of how to do an opening scene by Jeff VanderMeer, talking about a book he wrote himself. And when you come down to it, there's a lot of openings in a book in a way. I mildly hesitate to recommend this to you as it will encourage your decision paralysis... but, well, you're going to have to learn to deal with that sooner or later. Btw - VanderMeer is author of Wonderbook, so you get an idea on whether that book might work for you based on this. My advice - read this, forget about it, use what pops up in your subconsciousness, return six months down the road.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258396175402782727

- Solid tweet thread on writing fight scenes

WORDPLAY/Special Notice - This is a list of questions to ask yourself when looking at a film script to see if it works or not. Most of them apply to literature as well. Use it to help you understand your own work when you read back, absorb it to make better decisions

Structure, Structure, Structure - if you want to know a bit more about classical structure, this post is quite useful

Those five links (okay there's a lot more links waiting on the Butcher one) should give you a solid grounding on story and scene structure, and some ideas on what makes stories fizz or go flat. Price - your time.

Is all the advice there going to work every time? No, question it. But it should let you move forwards with more confidence.

 

[Bramandin]

Even if you know the recipe, that does not mean you can bake a perfect scone. Let alone this mouth-watering five-tier royal wedding cake TJ is speaking about. You can learn all the important recipes there are and still be nowhere. It is with actual baking and the acceptance that failures come before edible cakes that will teach you the process.
You can over-theorize. That was my first thought when I saw that huge pile of books about writing. I like writing (without calling myself a writer) and I practice my techniques by writing and doing the challenges. Once I feel confident AND get a good idea for longer stories or even a novel, I'll dive into some theoretics about plotting and stuff. Most importantly, to me anyway, is not destroying the fun of writing and the drive I have in creating something that wasn't there before I took up the pen. Theorizing too much would hazard that creative feeling.

But, as I said, I don't call myself a writer, so take my words with a barrel of salt and keep that barrel separated from your recipes.

I haven't read those books, I stole them from my parents' bookcase. I think with a scone, one at least needs to start with a recipe. The only thing I'm sure about is some sort of flour, probably wheat unless they can also be made with nut or barley flour and still be called a scone. Beyond that, do I need milk, butter, baking soda, something I haven't thought of? I think I've eaten scones, but what I'm picturing is a triangular Southern biscuit.

I know that trying to get good is destroying the fun, but I used to know how to draw and being able to make a good drawing is more fun than churning out amatuer stuff. I recently got a good mushroom and while I know it's not accurate to the photo I was trying to copy, it passes casual observation.

 

[Bramandin]

Stop worrying about whether you know enough or what the writing advice is saying and just get stuck in. I suspect you have a highly ordered mind and dislike the idea of spending your time doing trial and error when you suspect there's a better way, and find it more mentally taxing than most of us here. Well... sooner or later, it comes down to trial and error. Because that's how you integrate what you learn, and learn what works for you.

I dislike the idea of doing trial and error because I've got at least a handful of novellas (not counting Drop a Stone, which is half of the length of the Harry Potter series) using that approach and I'm tired of not getting anywhere with it. What's the definition of insanity? I could repeat what I have done when my fics have gotten unwieldy, I even have an idea for a new fanfiction focusing on Vorador, but I don't expect it to turn out any differently unless I change something else, like buckling down and actually trying to learn something before going in again.

Thanks for the resources.

About the decision paralyses, I think I've almost got where I want to start nailed down, and I'll stick to that unless I run into a compelling reason to do something different. It's not going to go exactly like the opening to A Stainless Steel Rat is Born, but I am going to get to actiony/exciting within the first few paragraphs and then back down to who the character is.

 

[The Big Peat]

I dislike the idea of doing trial and error because I've got at least a handful of novellas (not counting Drop a Stone, which is half of the length of the Harry Potter series) using that approach and I'm tired of not getting anywhere with it. What's the definition of insanity? I could repeat what I have done when my fics have gotten unwieldy, I even have an idea for a new fanfiction focusing on Vorador, but I don't expect it to turn out any differently unless I change something else, like buckling down and actually trying to learn something before going in again.

Hmm. Why haven't you got anywhere with them? Have you read them back and if so, what did you dislike about them? What do you look at in your work and think "I am need to be better here?"

Trial and error only works if you work out what the error was and make a better trial. And if you think the error was "I don't know enough about writing, therefore I will know more about writing" then fair enough! But I'm wondering what else you might flag.

 

[THX1138]

I somewhat disagree with you and with @Swank. The 75-worder should not just be an exercise in writing a decent paragraph. Some folks actually manage to tell an engaging little story; setting a scene, developing it and bringing it to a conclusion with a message, a provoked thought, or a chuckle. The 75-worders can also provide an insight into your writing. The first time I type out my story it often runs to 120 words or more. I then hack away at it to remove any superfluous content, and I carry out some judicious rephrasing. When I compare the 75 word version with the original, I often prefer the short version. That tells me something!

Regarding the original post; yes, stop writing fan fiction! Well, I suppose writing anything at all is good practice, but why not be original? Invent your own world, beings to inhabit it and storylines to follow. I agree with @therapist above. Maybe slow down a little, don't worry too much about the details. That's a common mistake. There was a piece for critique recently where we were asked for opinions on whether a monster should be killed with a blow to the head or balls. The answer, of course, is that it doesn't matter; the story will either be good either way or bad either way.

A more specific piece of advice for you (again, related to slowing down). I sometimes have trouble following your line of thought. I think what you type makes perfect sense in the moment (because your meaning is clear in your own mind) but not so much to the reader later. Its alright, we all do the same thing. Going back over your writing a day or two later always helps in identifying those passages.

I have also found that doing the 75 and 100 words I have started to learn and use words that I would normally or never use or heard of. My vocabulary is and writing skills are slowly growing.

 

[Phyrebrat]

75 worders… not just for learning but also fun (depending on the genre ) for the community here. I used to do them religiously as a way of streamlining my prose whilst forcing me to elicit a tone more than aping a 3 act structure. But they stopped being helpful and I got genre-fatigue the more I did them. I’d still argue that there are value-added elements to doing them but it seems like you’re after immediate results.

As a fellow neurodivergent I wonder if you’d be happy to give a brief outline of your condition: a lot of people are making effort to give you advice which is being summarily rejected. Maybe if we knew the blocks that stand in your way (personally, re how you approach things) we could help more. But I understand that is privileged medical info you may not be happy to share.

The thing is. Writing a novel is not about writing a novel; it’s about the writing, the editing, the feedback, the rewrites, the structural edits, the entire birthing of a book will give you an idea of skills to focus on. As I said it’s not just about the act of getting the prose/story, as more relevant and transferable skills will be learnt too.

As a (dance) teacher of 24 years I’ve often found it alarming when a student who has a strong internal judge gets angry or frustrated with themselves because they can’t do my choreography; it’s taken me 30-odd years to become the dancer I am and to have a student expect to get my moves perfect on the first lesson is… well, not very self-aware, and a little bit immature. Think of that in terms of writing.

Also, know that we all (probs) go through this frustration — or variations thereof — and the only solution is, as has been said, to start.

I have no opinion on fanfic. Writing is writing; but I do wonder if you had your own epic, you’d be far more invested and excited about it than replicating someone else’s world. (Perhaps?)

My struggles with mental health have really required me to learn how to work differently than my default. I suspect this may help you, too.

 

[Bramandin]

Hmm. Why haven't you got anywhere with them? Have you read them back and if so, what did you dislike about them? What do you look at in your work and think "I am need to be better here?"

Trial and error only works if you work out what the error was and make a better trial. And if you think the error was "I don't know enough about writing, therefore I will know more about writing" then fair enough! But I'm wondering what else you might flag.

I'm going back to the trainwreck of part 8. First thing is that a lot of the obvious problems in chapter one were caused because I just threw that scene together without really thinking enough about the cultures involved. Rewriting it would probably go a little better since I have world-built a bit since then, but it would only serve as an exercise.

I think what's really bad about a lot of the other chapters is that they're disconnected scenes that probably shouldn't have been put on the internet. The only part that even resembles a coherent story is the last 1500 words out of 8500, and even that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

And then there is everything else that you could probably see as problematic in my latest critique-sample.

 

[Swank]

And then there is everything else that you could probably see as problematic in my latest critique-sample.

I just re-read that piece, and your biggest problem is what @The Big Peat mentions - the disconnected POV. It makes it hard to picture the scene, hard to follow, difficult to empathize with the protagonist and fills the piece with way too many repeated names.

You can still use omniscient third if you want, but your narrator needs a 'bias' for how they view the protagonist's place in their world - focusing on the details that the protagonist would notice or not, the way knowledge of other people is in her head rather than just a general fact.


You are looking for some sort of organizing principle(s) for writing, and I think your gaze as the narrator will do more for you than any other. The narrator needs to have some skin in the game - a shared viewpoint, a bias, a limit on what they share about other characters vs the main character.

 

[THX1138]

I'm going back to the trainwreck of part 8. First thing is that a lot of the obvious problems in chapter one were caused because I just threw that scene together without really thinking enough about the cultures involved. Rewriting it would probably go a little better since I have world-built a bit since then, but it would only serve as an exercise.

I think what's really bad about a lot of the other chapters is that they're disconnected scenes that probably shouldn't have been put on the internet. The only part that even resembles a coherent story is the last 1500 words out of 8500, and even that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

And then there is everything else that you could probably see as problematic in my latest critique-sample.

It's not a trainwreck, it's an abstract. Add a little coherency's to it in order to bring out what you are trying to say. Or add some classical writing elements to it. In the end it's YOUR style you are sharing with the reader.

You can do it! We are all here for you.

 

[Bramandin]

75 worders… not just for learning but also fun (depending on the genre ) for the community here. I used to do them religiously as a way of streamlining my prose whilst forcing me to elicit a tone more than aping a 3 act structure. But they stopped being helpful and I got genre-fatigue the more I did them. I’d still argue that there are value-added elements to doing them but it seems like you’re after immediate results.

As a fellow neurodivergent I wonder if you’d be happy to give a brief outline of your condition: a lot of people are making effort to give you advice which is being summarily rejected. Maybe if we knew the blocks that stand in your way (personally, re how you approach things) we could help more. But I understand that is privileged medical info you may not be happy to share.

The thing is. Writing a novel is not about writing a novel; it’s about the writing, the editing, the feedback, the rewrites, the structural edits, the entire birthing of a book will give you an idea of skills to focus on. As I said it’s not just about the act of getting the prose/story, as more relevant and transferable skills will be learnt too.

As a (dance) teacher of 24 years I’ve often found it alarming when a student who has a strong internal judge gets angry or frustrated with themselves because they can’t do my choreography; it’s taken me 30-odd years to become the dancer I am and to have a student expect to get my moves perfect on the first lesson is… well, not very self-aware, and a little bit immature. Think of that in terms of writing.

Also, know that we all (probs) go through this frustration — or variations thereof — and the only solution is, as has been said, to start.

I have no opinion on fanfic. Writing is writing; but I do wonder if you had your own epic, you’d be far more invested and excited about it than replicating someone else’s world. (Perhaps?)

My struggles with mental health have really required me to learn how to work differently than my default. I suspect this may help you, too.

I'm willing to be open about my conditions, though I'm not sure which diagnoses are right. I'm an autistic that was hard to diagnose, executive function disorder that may be ADHD, muted emotions (possible alexithymia, I need to look into that,) I've lived in a hoard most of my life but there was only a few years when it was my fault, depression that I don't think is chemical, most likely a lot of untreated trauma. Mostly it's that I have no concept of normal, a lot of it probably caused by culture, but I also go through a lot of second-guessing. My first instinct is usually wrong, but I also can't just do the opposite of that in case I was right the first time, so there's this whole eye-blink process where I try to figure out what the right response is and usually get it wrong anyway.

I'm sorry about what seems to be rejection of advice. I think a lot of it is that I failed to present my problem clearly and then having trouble understanding what other people are getting at. I also have a bad habit of not being direct enough in asking for clarification.

With the dancing example, it's not that I'm frustrated at not being good, it's that I've been at this for so many years and haven't gotten better. Part of that was that I wasn't getting much feedback, so maybe I need a bit more patience.

I'm plenty excited about the world that I'm writing my fanfiction in, though really there's so much blank space to work in that a lot of the setting is my creation anyway. I'm also working to shake up my default because it's not getting me anywhere. I'm willing to keep trying the writing challenges, though I'm having trouble with making more than one sentence for this 75 without trying to launch into 900 words.

 

[sknox]

I wrote for many years without producing much. I will repeat what others have said: finish something. Not a challenge, but something you wrote because you thought of it (including fanfic). There's things that happen in the process of finishing, and in the experience of having finished, that are invaluable and distinctly personal--lessons you learn for yourself. Non-transferrable.

I can offer no prescriptions, but I can offer anecdote, in case something resonates for you. I sort of just picked something, but the thing I picked was about a character. I had decided I was going to finish a story no matter what, which is right up there with deciding to diet or quit smoking or something. The key isn't the decision, it's something individual and fleeting; necessary but also impossible to pin down or reproduce. I'm sure I had made that very same decision more than once. Maybe you just keep deciding until one clicks.

Anyways, deciding is one thing and finishing is quite another, and in between it can turn into a disheartening slog. What got me through wasn't the world, which was vague in countless ways, or the plot (which was in constant flux until very late). It was the characters. I had an MC I knew, and I knew that I knew him almost from the start. That helped a lot because it helped me introduce other characters who played off his strengths and foibles. And that, in turn, gave me four characters who turned out to be the backbone of the story. I *wanted* to see them through. I got to the point where I felt an obligation to them, to tell their story, to do right by them. And that carried me through all the long trudge.

Once that first novel was done, I knew I could do more. I even turned out a few shorter works. But that first one was key.

I'm still not very efficient. I'm still nearly unknown. But I know what it feels like to tell a story and I know I have more stories to tell. And, it turns out, in every one of them, it's the characters that carry me (bitching and moaning) from initial idea to finished product.

 

[The Big Peat]

I don't think many if any are annoyed that you're turning down advice, it's more a case of trying to find what will work. There's a reason the standard advice for writers seemingly stuck with option paralysis is to just do something and work out the rest later - but this is clearly not you. (And it's not like the rest of us are super clear about our writing problems either). You don't have option paralysis, you have "I've been at this a long time and it's not working like I want and I'm frustrated paralysis".

And it sounds like the thing that's not working is you set out with ideas you're excited about, then you hit the murky middle and find you don't have the set-up you want, and you look back and you see mistakes, and you don't know how to fix them and you don't know how to avoid them next time.

To a certain extent the answer to your problems is press on, finish, edit, be a better writer for what you learn for doing so. Finishing is so important. But sometimes it will just cost you too much mentally and you've got to try something else.

So look at the links on structure in particular. Ask questions. And ask yourself questions?

What books do you really admire? What books in your dreams would you be compared to?

Also, do you have a good local library? Because they might have some decent books on writing too.

 

[Aknot]

I think you’ve gotten a lot of good advice so I’m not sure what I can add but I was struck by one comment in particular: “trying to get good is destroying the fun”.

In my view anyone trying to improve a skill have to accept that it won’t always be fun. However, we can strive for a balance. Mix the less fun exercises or work with what you truly enjoy.

Also, when pursuing a skill, keep the following in mind:

Progression is seldom linear. It’s often a step up followed by a plateau or even a slight decline. Especially after a starting period where we develop much more rapidly. Remind yourself of this when you feel stuck.

Repetition without mindfulness risk repeating the same mistakes over and over. Change things up and work mindfully on your weak spots. You’ve gotten tons of good advice here. Consider not only following the tips you agree with but try those you instinctively disagree with as well.

Our ability to critique can develop faster than our ability to create ourselves. You might think you’re doing worse, while in reality you’re simply a harsher judge. Keeping a non linear progression in mind this is even more important to remember.

 

[Toby Frost]

I agree with all of the above. I would add that (at least for some people) it's easy to get worked up about the art and technical elements of writing. Sometimes, writing is just saying what happened next: the problem you may have is knowing where it's all going and how to get it there.

 

[Bramandin]

I'll get to the rest of the advice in a bit, but I'm reading through the links like Jim Butcher. Story skeleton: *WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS*, *YOUR PROTAGONIST* *PURSUES A GOAL*. But will he succeed when *ANTAGONIST PROVIDES OPPOSITION*? My protagonist wants a stable and secure life, but he decides to throw that away to do the right thing. Will he manage to sway the hearts of a city before he publicly starves to death in the main square? That's towards the end of what I'm planning, but I have a feeling that instead of "If I hadn't been able to (break down my story into two sentences), it would have been way too much story for me" I've got something completely different. My character's story is more "An offering thief is saved from his life as an orphan. Most of the story is about him growing up, so stuff happens. Then he decides to get involved when his rescuer picks a fight with a goddess and the society that believes in her, risking his own life to save another orphan and ending up saving a dozen more during his escape."

I did start to figure out my problem with @sknox commenting on finishing things. Most of my longer stories collapse under their own weight instead of ending. I also happened to watch another Steven Universe criticism where he keeps saying "nothing happens" and I think I have a similar problem with a bunch of filler. It looked like Sugar was trying to write something epic and kept getting distracted by wanting to tell stories about people who don't matter in the grand scheme of things. For the story I'm planning, I need to declare it a happy ending when they start to solve the orphan problem and not drag the story out for the rest of his life. Even through the middle, I need to ask "does this contribute to where he ends up?"

Conflict, Logical Response and Point of View: "Try to imagine watching Star Trek from the viewpoint of Nurse Chapel. I'm not saying it would be a lame show, but it sure as hell wouldn't be the Star Trek we know." Well, he's not specifically saying I can't write a story like that. "The only (type of conflict) of any value to anyone who wants to learn to write commercial fiction is (Man versus Man). Man versus nature stories and man versus himself stories can work, but the writer has to work a lot harder to make it happen." Imma gonna try a man versus society story and you can't stop me! He did have useful advice about points of view and it was nice to see him admit that he can't get the hang of third person. I'm going to bet on the omniscient narrator not staying unfashionable forever. His rule about always writing in stimulus-response order is good, but I think I've had enough of that guy until I want to write some man vs man adventure.

Finch Novel, Opening Chapters: Discarded Approaches - Jeff VanderMeer

This one was great! I did get distracted because his story was similar to mine and I was interested in his different attempts at handling it. Instead of decision paralysis, I'm more stoked about flinging something onto the page and seeing what sticks. I think I'm even more against opening the story with Radley struggling to sleep because he's too hungry and instead starting with him ready to steal food from the shrine. And a used copy of Wonderbook is now sitting in my cart for the next time I deserve to get myself something.

My eyes started to glaze over at the structure article, but my story might be starting in the wrong order. I'm not interested in showing much of his daily life as an orphan and instead there is an inciting incident where he gets adopted. From there I'm probably going to include too much of his daily life growing up, though I'm probably going to struggle with showing much of his adult job. Then there is an adventure towards the end. Oh well, at least I don't care about marketability because there are places to self-publish for free.

 

[Bramandin]

I wrote for many years without producing much. I will repeat what others have said: finish something.

I think you’ve gotten a lot of good advice so I’m not sure what I can add but I was struck by one comment in particular: “trying to get good is destroying the fun”.

Good advice, both of you. I think that for a lot of these fics that get really long without ending, it's because they're a bit of escapism. I think I'll stop worrying about this particular one being good and save it for when the improvement projects get stalled. It'll be a good way to keep my fingers moving even if I don't generate anything more worth uploading.

I do care about the characters. Not so much that I can't do horrible things to them; they would have died sooner from lack of story if I didn't.

I don't think many if any are annoyed that you're turning down advice, it's more a case of trying to find what will work. There's a reason the standard advice for writers seemingly stuck with option paralysis is to just do something and work out the rest later - but this is clearly not you. (And it's not like the rest of us are super clear about our writing problems either). You don't have option paralysis, you have "I've been at this a long time and it's not working like I want and I'm frustrated paralysis".

And it sounds like the thing that's not working is you set out with ideas you're excited about, then you hit the murky middle and find you don't have the set-up you want, and you look back and you see mistakes, and you don't know how to fix them and you don't know how to avoid them next time.

To a certain extent the answer to your problems is press on, finish, edit, be a better writer for what you learn for doing so. Finishing is so important. But sometimes it will just cost you too much mentally and you've got to try something else.

So look at the links on structure in particular. Ask questions. And ask yourself questions?

What books do you really admire? What books in your dreams would you be compared to?

Also, do you have a good local library? Because they might have some decent books on writing too.

It's more like I keep slogging along long after something should have ended. From now on, no more serious projects that I don't have some idea about how they end. I'm going to have to return to figuring out structure. Maybe there's also a way to get things organized with index cards; I have a pack around here somewhere and a mattress to pin them to.

The library is a good idea except for the part where getting the books returned is a problem for me. I'll try to see what they have so I can look inside and see which one book might work. They also have a booksale room if one of their writing books is being cycled out.

I'm not sure what books I would want my work compared to. Something successful would be lofty, but that train of thought isn't really useful. I haven't really read books much while paying attention to how they're written. Instead I get sucked into the story.