The Earthers Must Die

[Jo Zebedee]

It is just that they are not coming across to the reader as well as you had hoped.

I was going to critique this but decided not to because of this. Each critter has brought up something that’s been useful and worth thinking about and in all but one case this has been batted back with a justification of what the reader didn’t understand or why the piece was correct in the first place.

That’s not the point of critiques. Even if it was there for a reason if it pulls a reader out of the story and drew attention to itself the writing isn’t working.

Instead of trying to convince ourselves it is working, it might be worth trying to work out what isn’t working and that’s what critiques are for.

Here the trends are saying to you - the worldbuilding is slowing things down and taking away from the story. You rebut this which, is, of course your choice (and it’s good for a writer to be confident and not easily swayed) - but why did you bother putting it up for critique?

And that’s really what I kind of feel. You don’t want feedback unless it tells you want you want to hear. And since mine probably won’t (I like the piece okay but there are areas I think could be looked at and considered) I’ll leave it.

 

[The Judge]

Each critter has brought up something that’s been useful and worth thinking about and in all but one case this has been batted back with a justification of what the reader didn’t understand or why the piece was correct in the first place.

To be fair, I imagine many of us did this with our very first critique, if only to ourselves with a "But... but... but"! I know I'm still aggrieved at a publisher's reader who clearly misunderstood something of mine umpteen years ago -- how could the idiot have failed to see the point of the scene?!!

To follow up Jo's comment, though, CultureCitizen, and the similar points made earlier, we always have to remember that we're not going to be standing behind the readers when they pick up our books, so we can't tell them "This is important because..." or "Just wait, it gets explained/makes sense in a page or two" -- the written word is all we've got to get our message across, and if we don't do it properly we're likely to have dissatisfied readers and no repeat readership. Yes, you're right that "in every form of art, every reader experiences the narration in its own way ( and not necessarily in the way the author intended)." but that's no comfort if it means that those readers give up on page one because they react unfavourably to something in the writing which could have been corrected.

Instead of trying to convince ourselves it is working, it might be worth trying to work out what isn’t working and that’s what critiques are for.

This. Exactly so.

And that’s really what I kind of feel. You don’t want feedback unless it tells you want you want to hear. And since mine probably won’t (I like the piece okay but there are areas I think could be looked at and considered) I’ll leave it.

CultureCitizen might not want to hear it now, but we all change and at a later date when s/he looks at this again things might be different. Plus, of course, there are other newish members here who may be at a similar stage of their writing and would benefit now from any advice we can collectively give. (Plus I'm nosy enough to want to know what you've got to say! )

 

[Jo Zebedee]

The Earthers Must Die - Part 1 of 6



This tale is dedicated to the memory of Scottish writer Iain Menzies Banks, creator of the utopic society of named the Culture.


2056 - Base Olympos, Mars

Alena reviewed the latest tissue sample with a slight smile of hope: it didn't have the slightest sign of cancer.

"What did I do differently this time?" she wondered. If she is wondering internally you don’t need the speech marks. If wondering aloud, it’s a strange dialogue tag that pulled me out of the narrative

She introduced the rest of the tests into the sequencer while taking that sample to her work table. The result intrigued her. We know that from the last paragraph. The other two hundred samples showed signs of cancer to a greater or lesser extent, but this one was completely free. She took a few cells from the culture and observed them under the microscope. The cells were perfectly healthy, too healthy: she had forced their mitosis cycle to replicate a hundred times faster, but the organelles seemed much younger.this is grand, needed context. Works fine.

"Gene, can you review the recording and tell me exactly what I did to this sample?"

Gene was the laboratory's AI/robot. It controlled four mechanical arms that emerged from the ceiling and two quadcopters with which it could perform minor tasks. Technically, it could repeat the entire testing cycle autonomously, but Alena liked to prepare the samples personally. Fifteen seconds later, the computer responded. Lot of info dumping here. What could you show more subtly?

"Alena, you forgot to introduce the oncovirus into the sample. It's no wonder the cells didn't produce any tumors."

Alena twisted her mouth into a look of disgust and looked at the tissue again, still intrigued by the appearance of the cells. Gene emitted a soft murmur, a signal that he had a comment to add, but that might be uncomfortable for his interlocutor.

"Anything else you want to add Gene?"

"Alena, I'm sure that if you had let me prepare the samples this error would not have occurred."

Alena sighed. Working with Gene was frustrating: he could do everything better than her, and usually in a fraction of the time. On the other hand how is this on the other hand? It seems to be saying the same thing, she would never have been able to bring her research to that point without his help: Gene was an tireless, efficient and to some extent creative assistant.

"Can you tell me what the result of the other samples was?"

"With pleasure: Tests 43 and 94 are the ones with the least tumor advancement. However, the cells of sample 43 show a noticeable deterioration, which I find intriguing. I will file that sample for a later study. The other sample seems promising... extrapolating the results we obtained, it could translate into five more years of life for people with gallbladder cancer. Very encouraging, given that they usually don't live more than six months."starting to glaze over a little here

"I expected a better result."

"It's a pretty good achievement. It's possible that the treatment will be much cheaper than the treatments available on Earth."

"Do you want me to perform any other tests during the night?"

"No, Gene, I'm tired and I can't think of anything else. I'll review the results calmly tomorrow."nothing much happening here. Is there a way to hone this all down? What’s it moving forwards?

She left the laboratory, closed the door and pressed the shut-off button that prevented the AI from continuing to perform tasks on its own in the laboratory. She then went through the full-body scanner before being able to exit to the main hallway on the floor. She walked the distance to the elevator by taking long leaps of four meters. She had been on Mars for three years and still enjoyed taking advantage of the low gravity. The older colonists thought it was a somewhat childish and tasteless gesture, an attitude that could only be explained as envy: the first colonists had lost much of their muscle mass and it was impossible for them to jump that way.this is all telling which doesn‚t draw me in.if you have an omni narrator is there something that can be done to make it more interesting? A quirky voice or something

She descended five floors to the ground floor, left the genetic research building and put on her archaic extended reality lenses. Almost all of her friends had already gone to bed. Only Renan was still working in the AI laboratory.

Somewhat frustrated, Alena looked at her watch, it was late: ten thirty. She stored the shell containing the virus-free sample in the refrigerator to continue analyzing it tomorrow. Then she organized the equipment on her work table and turned off the main light in the laboratory.

"Do you have time to go to dinner?" she subvocalized.

"I don't know ... what do retro girls from Earth eat?"

"Roasted beef on a bonfire."

Renan sent her several horrified face emojis.

"Even if you have enough pergs to buy a cow, I don't think Tharsis will let you start a bonfire ... oxygen and trees are a highly valuable resource here."

"I'll have to settle for vat-cultivated meat."

"That's more acceptable. Where and at what time do we meet?"

"In Marajó in half an hour. Before I want to swim for a while, the back pain is killing me," said Alena.the back pain would have been more effective if it could have been shown earlier.

"Marajó? Martian-Brazilian skewers? Is that what you're craving or are you doing it to please me?" asked Renan.

"Both," Alena replied.

Alena walked to the south shore of the park. Only five people were swimming in the immense Olympic pool. She took a towel from the automatic dispenser, undressed and left her clothes on a sun lounger. She climbed the diving board, ran to the tip and jumped with all her might. She rose two meters and turned before diving into the water.

She took four laps swimming on her back and two swimming freestyle. When she got out, she found Renan lying on one of the sun loungers. She took a towel and covered herself with it while wringing out her hair.

"I thought we would meet in Marajó," said Renan.

"And miss out on those curves? Not in my dreams," replied Alena.

Alena finished drying herself and dressed without Renan taking his eyes off her.yep definitely creepy

"Let's go," Renan said as he got up from the sun lounger. "I'm starving."

They walked in silence to the restaurant. Alena looked at the dome that covered the park fifty meters above them. The triple layer of plastic and the two meters of water trapped between the two lower layers did not allow them to see the stars. She felt nostalgic for the Earth's sky.

When they arrived at the restaurant, Renan walked directly to an interior table.

"I like to sit outside," Alena protested.

"There's a rain programmed in half an hour," warned Renan.

"Yes, it's okay, I like the rain," Alena said.

[1] *Perg – Peta Erg, the martian currency equivalent to 23,884 Kilocalories. A Mars colonist receives at least 18 Pergs per work day, roughly equivalent to 50 USD in 2023.

Okay sorry If it’s not helpful. Basically nothing happens bar the first three paragraphs. The cancer hasn’t grown. Everything else feels a little mundane, and that isn’t what most readers want to read but I like the concept and hook of the cancer thing.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Okay sorry If it’s not helpful. Basically nothing happens bar the first three paragraphs. The cancer hasn’t grown. Everything else feels a little mundane, and that isn’t what most readers want to read but I like the concept and hook of the cancer thing.

Even in short stories, I have seldom found one in which the action kicks-in in the first three paragraphs.
The actual "action" starts after the first 2,500 words.... far beyond what the forum rules allow in a single post.

 

[CultureCitizen]

One thing that sounds out to me is how distant the narrative is to the main character - it's all tell, no show. The result is that the reader is left distanced from events rather than engaged by them. This was popular in writing a few decades ago, but these days readers generally demand a closer character experience that they can almost feel. I'd suggest you read up on POV use for close third person and see if that helps.

Brian,
Regarding the "tell don't show". I am actually not telling a ton of things. In the current state, most of the readers have been unable to pick most of those subtle clues, so I am really tempted to go in the opposite direction.
In order to have some constructive feedback can you please tell what specific aspects of the story you think I am "telling", not showing ( other than the obvious: Alena is in a lab on Mars, and works there as a researcher assisted by an AI)?

 

[CultureCitizen]

I was going to critique this but decided not to because of this. Each critter has brought up something that’s been useful and worth thinking about and in all but one case this has been batted back with a justification of what the reader didn’t understand or why the piece was correct in the first place.

That’s not the point of critiques. Even if it was there for a reason if it pulls a reader out of the story and drew attention to itself the writing isn’t working.

Instead of trying to convince ourselves it is working, it might be worth trying to work out what isn’t working and that’s what critiques are for.

Here the trends are saying to you - the worldbuilding is slowing things down and taking away from the story. You rebut this which, is, of course your choice (and it’s good for a writer to be confident and not easily swayed) - but why did you bother putting it up for critique?

And that’s really what I kind of feel. You don’t want feedback unless it tells you want you want to hear. And since mine probably won’t (I like the piece okay but there are areas I think could be looked at and considered) I’ll leave it.

Jo,
It was quite a downer, the fact that the story had to be posted in 1,500-word chunks and that the first chunk size was recommended to be of 1,000 words. I would really have preferred to have the full story criticized as a whole and not the first 1,000 words (from a total of 7,000) .
I have mostly limited myself to explaining my rationale behind some scenes and dialogues ( even if they are superfluous to the plot). And noting when some paragraphs will make sense at the end of the story.

I am willing to change the structure of the story so that the action happens first, as long as I can keep the worldbuilding; it is important for me.

 

[msstice]

It was quite a downer, the fact that the story had to be posted in 1,500-word chunks and that the first chunk size was recommended to be of 1,000 words.

I used to think that 1500K is a bit short, but it is a good compromise because it improves the chances of a piece getting critiques. It does mean, however, that you have to pick the extract carefully so that it can be understood without needing a ton of subtle back story. Feedback on a 1500K extract is quite useful as it will generalize decently to the rest of the writing.

I am willing to change the structure of the story so that the action happens first, as long as I can keep the worldbuilding; it is important for me.

I think the importance of world building is not disputed; it is the manner of the building. Several folks, including me, feel that the world building slowed the pace of the story too much (too much stuff is happening that seems mundane). You may find established authors getting away with mundane passages, but it is not optimal.

If you wish to pay attention to the notes here, I think they point towards setting yourself the challenge of building the world as the characters run through it doing interesting stuff. As an example, we have characters have dinner at a restaurant, but nothing of note happens. How about they get into an argument about the research? There's a nice hook at the start, but it's not prominent enough in the rest of the story.
Is there a reason why she's tackling cancer? Does she have a relative who has cancer? Perhaps she visits the relative?

As the characters do these interesting things, you can then show us the interesting world you have invented.

 

[CultureCitizen]

I used to think that 1500K is a bit short, but it is a good compromise because it improves the chances of a piece getting critiques. It does mean, however, that you have to pick the extract carefully so that it can be understood without needing a ton of subtle back story. Feedback on a 1500K extract is quite useful as it will generalize decently to the rest of the writing.


I think the importance of world building is not disputed; it is the manner of the building. Several folks, including me, feel that the world building slowed the pace of the story too much (too much stuff is happening that seems mundane). You may find established authors getting away with mundane passages, but it is not optimal.

If you wish to pay attention to the notes here, I think they point towards setting yourself the challenge of building the world as the characters run through it doing interesting stuff. As an example, we have characters have dinner at a restaurant, but nothing of note happens. How about they get into an argument about the research? There's a nice hook at the start, but it's not prominent enough in the rest of the story.
Is there a reason why she's tackling cancer? Does she have a relative who has cancer? Perhaps she visits the relative?

As the characters do these interesting things, you can then show us the interesting world you have invented.

Msstice,
I know the story lacks a "hook", and all stories can benefit from the presence of a hook.
But the 1,500 words per post really mean the hook is mandatory .... and probably a cliffhanger at the end of each of the 1,500 word segments.
But, apart from series writers, no writer structures stories in that way.

Therefore the critique section is mostly centered on the writing style and much less on the plot and underlying ideas of the story ( it should be clear enough that it is impossible to judge the plot of a story by the first 1,500 words).

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Jo,
It was quite a downer, the fact that the story had to be posted in 1,500-word chunks and that the first chunk size was recommended to be of 1,000 words. I would really have preferred to have the full story criticized as a whole and not the first 1,000 words (from a total of 7,000) .
I have mostly limited myself to explaining my rationale behind some scenes and dialogues ( even if they are superfluous to the plot). And noting when some paragraphs will make sense at the end of the story.

I am willing to change the structure of the story so that the action happens first, as long as I can keep the worldbuilding; it is important for me.

We don’t need a longer piece - if an excerpt can’t stand alone - especially an opening excerpt then there is something not working.

In this case, as @msstice says above very well, feedback like it’s slow or that this doesn’t work, is relevant regardless of the word limit. Readers and agents give up in much less than 1500 words. You don’t have the luxury of saying they’re not enough or don’t matter. (I’m another note there’s no way I would have continued to read on through 7000 words - there’s too much to address)

No one suggests not to worldbuild. But it’s how to do it. An omni narrator prevents you from using the character perspective to do so (why use omni by the way?) and there’s no quirk to the omni voice that’s letting you do so.

Immerse us. Show us what she’s eating, how it smells and taste. Tell us which area of your world it is from and how those people are the only ones who *insert important world fact*

Dropping in worldbuilding without slowing the story, or making it obvious what you’re doing, is a real art. Whether in 1000 words or 7000 we can tell if it works.

Now please please don’t come back and rebut this if you don’t agree move on. But arguing with critters doesn’t move you forward: reflecting on what we are saying and why, and deciding if it’s useful and valid, might

 

[Brian G Turner]

Brian,
Regarding the "tell don't show". I am actually not telling a ton of things. In the current state, most of the readers have been unable to pick most of those subtle clues, so I am really tempted to go in the opposite direction.
In order to have some constructive feedback can you please tell what specific aspects of the story you think I am "telling", not showing ( other than the obvious: Alena is in a lab on Mars, and works there as a researcher assisted by an AI)?

Anywhere where you write something like "Alena was tired" or "Alena was frustrated" etc is telling, not showing. Showing is where you go into her visceral reactions and feelings. Rather than me try to give examples, instead look at any (relatively recent) book you're reading and look for them yourself.

Additionally, you want to look at issues such as internal character conflict and story stakes to help create a hook early on. At the moment there's no tension in this starter. The character is just plodding through routine work and there's no obvious consequence as to whether they complete it today or not.

Therefore the critique section is mostly centered on the writing style and much less on the plot and underlying ideas of the story

Absolutely - because most aspiring writers get the technicalities very wrong. Critiques is supposed to help with that. No one cares about plot or story ideas if the story is too technically flawed to engage with in the first place - which is the place we *all* start off from.

the fact that the story had to be posted in 1,500-word chunks and that the first chunk size was recommended to be of 1,000 words. I would really have preferred to have the full story criticized as a whole and not the first 1,000 words (from a total of 7,000) .

No, don't post more until you've fixed any technical issues from your first excerpt.

I have mostly limited myself to explaining my rationale behind some scenes and dialogues

No, don't - your story explains it or it doesn't. But as above, we need to focus on the technical issues first.

And don't feel too bad - as Jo said, we all go through this, and our first reactions are always to to try and explain ourselves in the face of writing criticism. You'll soon learn to just accept it quietly, while trying to figure out which feedback is relevant and which can be ignored based on experience and technical understanding.

EDIT: Btw, if you want to find out more about the technicalities of writing, try Wonderbook by Jeff Vandeer for a comprehensive but engaging overview of the technicalities. For character conflict, try reading Save the Cat by Blake Snyder.

 

[The Judge]

Even in short stories, I have seldom found one in which the action kicks-in in the first three paragraphs.

I think you're misunderstanding what's being said. No one is requiring "the action" to kick in immediately -- what we do want is to be continually engaged, and to be made to want to read further to find out what is happening. The first few paras do this, but then you drop in stuff which appears to have no importance and no relevance and people are losing interest. As soon as that happens, you've lost.

If you're happy to write just for yourself, then it really doesn't matter what we think and you can continue writing just as you want to do, though in that case there's little point asking for feedback and critiques.

But if you want to attract readers and sell your stories, and most particularly if you want to get an agent or publisher, you really need to listen to what's being said here -- agents will read the first page, perhaps 250 words, and if they're not grabbed immediately they'll bin your work.

It was quite a downer, the fact that the story had to be posted in 1,500-word chunks and that the first chunk size was recommended to be of 1,000 words. I would really have preferred to have the full story criticized as a whole and not the first 1,000 words (from a total of 7,000) .

Frankly, few members are going to start reading a piece as long as 7k from someone whose work they don't know, and even fewer are going to make it through to the end. The chances of your getting any worthwhile critiques in such a case would be minimal. However, as I've pointed out, the Writing Group does allow for extended pieces, so if you want to put the whole out there in one lump, become a Supporter.

I know the story lacks a "hook", and all stories can benefit from the presence of a hook.

No. All stories need a hook. Without a hook, no one is going to read beyound the first few paras. But it's not necessarily the case that hook = action, and in fact throwing a reader into action such as the middle of a battle can be counterproductive. Otherwise, hooks come in all shapes and sizes -- eg elegant writing, lyrical description, interesting characters, immersion in time or place, a strong compelling voice -- though, of course, not every kind of hook will appeal to every reader.

But it's not enough just to have an opening hook -- each paragraph, each sentence must continue to keep the reader on the hook, impelling her forward so she continues reading. And frankly, if you can't get on board with that concept, you're unlikely to progress in your writing.

 

[THX1138]

I don't have a lot to contribute that others are far better at conveying. But for my small part in this I use The Emotion Thesaurus by Ackerman and Puglist. It may help you with some of the technical stuff as far as character thought and expressions go.