SpaceX Starship
- Thread starter Harpo
- Start date
What would be the weight of food, water, and folks to get 100 people through a 7 month trip to Mars?
100 people = 8 tons
Food + 20% reserve = 50 tons
Water at 14 day recycle = 6 tons
Total including people = 64 tons.
Seems to me it would be within the carrying capacity of Starship.
100 people = 8 tons
Food + 20% reserve = 50 tons
Water at 14 day recycle = 6 tons
Total including people = 64 tons.
Seems to me it would be within the carrying capacity of Starship.
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In the early days of the rocket program in the 1940s, there was a lot of failures leaving nothing but a pile of rubble each time. By the time all that research, equipment, and people reached the US and Russia it still had a long way to go before 1957 when the US began using Atlas rockets that were reliable as launch vehicles. That was all done in real time with real physical equipment. Some of it was driven by the endless, at times, mindless need to outperform "the enemies" technological advancements.
While we might like to think that we have advanced to the point where we can model anything we want in a computer, lay out a design, then build a ready to go working unit, we are not there. Things that look like they work, but have far less physical impact, seem to pass the test of use, are not pushing the envelope like a 5,000 ton 400 foot rocket does.
We are spoiled by the imaginary visions of huge dry docks housings lots of Enterprise size spaceships. Ideally the big space ships need to be launched once and left docked in space. We build big ocean going ships and then leave them docked in the water, we don't drag them back onto dry land in between voyages. Bringing the big spaceships up and down over and over again, with gravity tearing at them and all that stress from the rockets, the only thing they can do is eventually break. Eventually we will have designs and materials that can take any kind of stress, but for now that is not the case. All of which makes it even harder to build a huge spaceship that works.
The top level people can be nuts, probably are, and maybe its unavoidable, but so long as they provide the materials and can find people willing to do the work, it is the hard relentless work the workers do, which makes the dreams of the crazed industrialists come true.
As far as fixing problems at home first, that's never going to happen because nothing is done that way. At the same time, until the space programs start bringing back useable materials that make a big difference for life on Earth, they need to supply information, free research, and designs that make things work better on Earth now. Perhaps the satellite industry will be what makes space exploration not only practical but necessary. Its all in space but the benefits are all used on Earth. Launching drones from Earth to do space work is not practical, nor is a completely automated spaceside drone service operated by remote control from Earth a workable idea. Eventually there is going to be a satellite maintenance/repair/replacement service that requires people operating in space, even if they are only operating remote controlled drones to get the work done.
While we might like to think that we have advanced to the point where we can model anything we want in a computer, lay out a design, then build a ready to go working unit, we are not there. Things that look like they work, but have far less physical impact, seem to pass the test of use, are not pushing the envelope like a 5,000 ton 400 foot rocket does.
We are spoiled by the imaginary visions of huge dry docks housings lots of Enterprise size spaceships. Ideally the big space ships need to be launched once and left docked in space. We build big ocean going ships and then leave them docked in the water, we don't drag them back onto dry land in between voyages. Bringing the big spaceships up and down over and over again, with gravity tearing at them and all that stress from the rockets, the only thing they can do is eventually break. Eventually we will have designs and materials that can take any kind of stress, but for now that is not the case. All of which makes it even harder to build a huge spaceship that works.
The top level people can be nuts, probably are, and maybe its unavoidable, but so long as they provide the materials and can find people willing to do the work, it is the hard relentless work the workers do, which makes the dreams of the crazed industrialists come true.
As far as fixing problems at home first, that's never going to happen because nothing is done that way. At the same time, until the space programs start bringing back useable materials that make a big difference for life on Earth, they need to supply information, free research, and designs that make things work better on Earth now. Perhaps the satellite industry will be what makes space exploration not only practical but necessary. Its all in space but the benefits are all used on Earth. Launching drones from Earth to do space work is not practical, nor is a completely automated spaceside drone service operated by remote control from Earth a workable idea. Eventually there is going to be a satellite maintenance/repair/replacement service that requires people operating in space, even if they are only operating remote controlled drones to get the work done.
There is also the problems of radiation and Micro meteors.
The problem what that , is there is simply not enough room under the bed for a a big screen tv."There is also the problems of radiation and Micro meteors".
Let's stay at home and hide under the bed
Use stored food and water for radiation shielding.
Adhesive patches or equivilent for micro meteor impacts.
Seriously , Im not suggesting that we give up trying to go to Mars.
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On a more serious note, I think Starship did great today.
I suspect the booster suffered from tank slosh during the turnback maneuver, and the second stage had an unexpected flash of light about midway through the burn that may have been the result of a fuel line or tank rupture. Seems like fuel or oxidizer loss shut the engines down about 15-20 seconds early.
Both of those should be easy fixes.
I suspect the booster suffered from tank slosh during the turnback maneuver, and the second stage had an unexpected flash of light about midway through the burn that may have been the result of a fuel line or tank rupture. Seems like fuel or oxidizer loss shut the engines down about 15-20 seconds early.
Both of those should be easy fixes.
Probably .
Likely , we will be using Space X to go back to the moon and there establish a base with which we can use as launch point for places like Mars , the Jovian moons and beyond . The moon has number mineral resources which should in their help create a fself sufficient lunar colony Though water might still have to be bought in either from Earth or via cometary capture . And there is the added bonus of Helium 3 which ties into Nuclear Fusion.
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The problem as I see it Jim. is we may end up running though our resources and render Earth's Biosphere non viable before we have any chance to establish ourselves off planet.
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Generational sleeper ships with Ion motors . The motor component , we can build now. Or , we could eventually build spin dizzy like in James Blish's book cities in Flight.
" Though water might still have to be bought in either from Earth or via cometary capture"
I'm not optimistic about finding enough water at the lunar poles to provide fuel, water, and oxygen. And we are a long way from having the means to give a comet enough delta V to put it into lunar orbit.
I'm not optimistic about finding enough water at the lunar poles to provide fuel, water, and oxygen. And we are a long way from having the means to give a comet enough delta V to put it into lunar orbit.
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The universe is so vastly huge that time and distances really become meaningless.
I don't think speed will be the answer to us travelling to distant stars.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I do think that as long as we continue to think of space travel as flying in a straight line from A to B as fast as we can, we will never succeed.
I don't think speed will be the answer to us travelling to distant stars.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I do think that as long as we continue to think of space travel as flying in a straight line from A to B as fast as we can, we will never succeed.
There is actual water on the moon ? How is that all possible ?
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