A Dance with Dragons

[cercar]

So the other day I was rereading A Game of Thrones and in the second Bran chapter, first or second page, Bran is naming the great nights of the kingsguard that he remembers and I found this rather peculiar.
" Bran Knew all their stories. There names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war singers called the Dance of the Dragons."

Since this is supposed to be the title of the sixth book in the series could it be foreshadowing a fight between Jon and Dany as they are the last Targaryen (other than maester Aemon) they may not be brother and sister like in the previous dance but i don't think the title is just a coincidence.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Re: A Dance of Dragons

Interesting.
Certainly a lot would depend on the situation when Dany returns.
Should Jon feel that he has to stop her (maybe because her invasion weakens the fight against the others? Or that she threatens the life of Arya/Bran?) then he would certainly have the motive to stand against Dany.

To link in with this, in A Clash of Kings one of the prophecies " . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . ."

After all Dany has presumably been betrayed by love (Jorah) and is yet to be betrayed by greed & blood. Blood could & probably will refer to Jon.
Good spot Cercar!

 

[The Other]

Re: A Dance of Dragons

Winters_Sorrow: I was under the impression that the betrayal by Mirri Maz-Durr was the blood betrayal.

As to the link, I definately think it is possible. It seems likely that Jon and Dany are somehow connected anyway, it could well be this.

 

[Jay]

Re: A Dance of Dragons

I just want to note (in case you wanted to edit it) that the title is A Dance with Dragons

Winters_Sorrow: I was under the impression that the betrayl by Mirri Maz-Durr was the blood betrayl.

That was my impression as well, but we will see

 

[Barristan]

Re: A Dance of Dragons

Well, there is undeniably a link between Dany and Jon. When Dany goes through the visions in the house of the Undying, she has one about the wall, where a small blue flower is growing from it. It shows she will at least have something to do with the wall.

The significance of the blue flower also clearly links Jon and Lyanna Stark. The winter Rose was her favourite flower. This supports the L+R=J theory.

 

[jnr_turtle]

Re: A Dance of Dragons

Well I thought that since the title was going to be 'A Dance with Dragons', the the title was just simply referring to Dany's dragons maturing into fearsome creatures... Perhaps that's a bit too simple....

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Re: A Dance of Dragons

Winters_Sorrow: I was under the impression that the betrayal by Mirri Maz-Durr was the blood betrayal.

As to the link, I definately think it is possible. It seems likely that Jon and Dany are somehow connected anyway, it could well be this.

My impression was that the blood mentioned was a betrayal by a family member but we'll see

 

[red_temple]

Re: A Dance of Dragons

Well I thought that since the title was going to be 'A Dance with Dragons', the the title was just simply referring to Dany's dragons maturing into fearsome creatures... Perhaps that's a bit too simple....

The simple view is probably at least partially correct. My guess is the title probably has dual (or multiple) meanings. GRRM is tricksy like that.

 

[Tyranus]

Could be just a title since A Dance With Dragons used to be A Feast For Crows, but the book was too big and they had to split it in half.

 

[Rane Longfox]

I'm off the definate opinion that people read far too much detail into these books I reckon its just because the dragons will be off burning Westeros to the gorund and such

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Has anyone else noticed that there's a difference between "A Dance with Dragons" and "a dance of dragons?" They mean two different things. The title of the book simply implies that the dragons are going to be involved in the dance. A dance of dragons implies that there are only dragons involved. I don't think that Dany and Jon will end up fighting. Jon is sworn to the NW, so Dany taking over Westeros is none of his concern, and likewise he is not a threat to her succession of the throne, anymore than Maester Aemon would be. And I don't think Dany would be likely to attack the men who are defending the land she covets from the Others...

 

[Young Wolf]

I'm off the definate opinion that people read far too much detail into these books I reckon its just because the dragons will be off burning Westeros to the gorund and such

I must disagree with both of those points. The insights that people show in this forum just makes me appreciate Martin's work even more, and alot of things that I missed out on, I found out about here (Jon's true parents, etc.). Also, I don't think the Dragons will be big enough to fly to Westeros until book 7.

 

[Direwolf]

Jon is sworn to the NW, so Dany taking over Westeros is none of his concern, and likewise he is not a threat to her succession of the throne...

I think you're right. I certainly hope you're right. One possibility you may not have considered (I just thought of it recently), however, is the possible annihilation of the Night's Watch. The Others may kill them all off, and take down the Wall besides. In that case, Jon's vows may no longer serve a purpose.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I think you're right. I certainly hope you're right. One possibility you may not have considered (I just thought of it recently), however, is the possible annihilation of the Night's Watch. The Others may kill them all off, and take down the Wall besides. In that case, Jon's vows may no longer serve a purpose.

If the Night's Watch is annihilated, I'll bet Jon will go with it. He seems to take his vows very seriously, which I think would result in a "down-with-the-ship" ending for him, should that sort of thing happen. If he were the only survivor, I think his dedication would still hold true- he's sworn to help protect the Seven Kingdoms, come what may. That means that if the Wall comes down and all his men die, he'll have to do what he can to rally people to the cause and put up a hell of a fight.

Besides, think about it- who would want a King who just abandoned his post as protector of the nation?

 

[Direwolf]

If the Night's Watch is annihilated, I'll bet Jon will go with it. He seems to take his vows very seriously, which I think would result in a "down-with-the-ship" ending for him, should that sort of thing happen. If he were the only survivor, I think his dedication would still hold true- he's sworn to help protect the Seven Kingdoms, come what may. That means that if the Wall comes down and all his men die, he'll have to do what he can to rally people to the cause and put up a hell of a fight.

Besides, think about it- who would want a King who just abandoned his post as protector of the nation?

Good point. Though if all of the Watch is killed off, he could wind up be in a somewhat similar bind as Ned was in AGOT. Ned had the choice between his "honor" (being honest about Cersei's kids and Robert's heir), and the more "practical" option (bending the knee to Joffrey, thus preserving peace). Nevermind that the practical option didn't work.

With Jon, being captain of the tattered remains of the night's watch may turn out to be honorable but stupid. He's a man of great leadership qualities, and may be too important to "go down with the ship". His days with the Wildlings I think show that he's pragmatic enough to not let his honor get in the way of doing what's good for the realm.

Well, that was a poorly illustrated point, and I'm probably delving a bit too deep into the hypothetical. But hopefully it made sense.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

It made sense, no worries. I just don't think he'd abandon his post.

 

[Rane Longfox]

I don't think the Dragons will be big enough to fly to Westeros until book 7.

That entirely depends on wether he keeps the same time pace going... he might miss out a chunk or something.

With a writer like Martin, this is very unlikely, but don't forget, aFfC was orginally intended to be much longer than it is...

 

[MIDNIGHT]

I like this original post saying that A Dance of Dragons is a war between brother and sister since I am tossing around the theory of Dany and Jon ARE actually brother and sister.Before you tear me apart pay attention for one quick moment.Targaryens of the past have been known to take multiple brides,I believe Rhaegar married Lyanna as well as Elia. I also believe that Aegon was conceived by Lyanna and not Elia (making Jon ,Aegon The Prince that was promise).Also explains why there were Kings guard at the tower where Lyanna dyes(not nessasarily in child birth which we have all been assuming),they were protecting the future king.I think Jon is actually about 6 months older then is let on.It would not be that difficult for ned to pass him of as a younger babe when he brings the infant home to Catelyn(kids vary greatly in size and developement).One last quick note.A friend of mine pointed out that Aegon can be pronounced with a hard "g" making it sound like AE-JON. Just a thought that has been bothering me for a while not to mention that Elia's name doesn;t often come up with Aegon just "the princess".

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I like this original post saying that A Dance of Dragons is a war between brother and sister since I am tossing around the theory of Dany and Jon ARE actually brother and sister.Before you tear me apart pay attention for one quick moment.Targaryens of the past have been known to take multiple brides,I believe Rhaegar married Lyanna as well as Elia. I also believe that Aegon was conceived by Lyanna and not Elia

How does this make Jon and Daenerys brother and sister? If Rhaegar was Dany's brother and Jon's father, that would make Dany Jon's aunt.

 

[Culhwch]

Besides which, Aegon was at King's Landing... with Elia. Ripped from her grasp and dashed against a wall. I think someone (cough-varys-cough-ifnoteverybloodyoneelse-cough) may have noticed if Elia suddenly turned up with a baby she was never pregnant with. Even if Elia was keen to pull off this farce. Which I doubt she would have been. On your last point, couldn't be positive, but I think it was mentioned more than once that Gregor Clegane raped Elia with Aegon's brains still on his hands.

I think you may be a touch off-track here. Check out the 'Theories on Jon' threads for more.